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The Game By Neil strauss
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59240
Maybe, though I'd not really care. I'd rather be someones last than someone's first. Give me a "slapper" any day of the week. Way more fun and if she's committed to me? Hell yea. Awkward near virgins I can well do without.We must live in different worlds. I don't think many men would like to think their woman was known as an easy ride though. Maybe it's a city, country town difference where everyone knows everyone:pac:
Well speaking as an ex major slapper in my 30's, that is sooo simplistic as to be not borne of experience, more of simplistic conjecture, or plain fiction. Thugs are attractive to some women, emotionally damaged women.most women are not attracted to nice guys and if they say a guy is " nice " , its a form of abuse , they may in the end have to settle for a " nice " guy but he,s rarely their first choice , its one of the reasons a sizeable number of women end up in physically abusive relationships , they knew the guy was a thug but thugs are attractive to women , most women who are in physically abusive marriages knew the guy was violent prior to marriage but married him anyway due to the sexual attraction
Fine if emotionally damaged women who haven't realised/grown out of that is your bag. It wouldnt be mine. Though I will admit I have fallen into the "oh I could save her" mindframe(should be a word). More than once. I have usually failed. Mostly because of my failings or they were going through a rough patch I saw as "them". I'm happy to report that they all did alright in the end and it turns out I met some amazing peeps along the way, even at the time along the way they didn't see it yet.
Earlier a good and kind mate of mine brought me a V nice bottle of Coronas Vino so I better bow out at this slightly *hic* stage.
Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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Maybe, though I'd not really care. I'd rather be someones last than someone's first. Give me a "slapper" any day of the week. Way more fun and if she's committed to me? Hell yea. Awkward near virgins I can well do without.
Well speaking as an ex major slapper in my 30's, that is sooo simplistic as to be not borne of experience, more of simplistic conjecture, or plain fiction. Thugs are attractive to some women, emotionally damaged women.
Fine if emotionally damaged women who haven't realised/grown out of that is your bag. It wouldnt be mine. Though I will admit I have fallen into the "oh I could save her" mindframe(should be a word). More than once. I have usually failed. Mostly because of my failings or they were going through a rough patch I saw as "them". I'm happy to report that they all did alright in the end and it turns out I met some amazing peeps along the way, even at the time along the way they didn't see it yet.
Earlier a good and kind mate of mine brought me a V nice bottle of Coronas Vino so I better bow out at this slightly *hic* stage.
dismissing women as " damaged " because of their attraction to brutish men is slightly intellectually arrogant to put it mildly
its only relatively recent history which has socially shamed women into avoiding violent men , down the centurys its was the brutes who left the most ayr,s , modern civilised society has been terrific for docile men as they no longer need to beat a guy to death to win a woman but this is how it was for thousands of years and human nature is still very primitive
its like the movie " sin city " where clive owen,s charechter talks about how the mickey rourke charechter " marv " had the rotten luck to be born in the wrong century , if he was alive the time of the roman gladiators , they would have been feeding him chicks
watch any news report about how some violent sociopath gets sent down for ten years and it will always mention that he has kids , these guys always have an ayr , they are never virgins
women are attracted to violent men , always have been0 -
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im not talking about denying women rights
im saying women are far more attracted to macho - old school guys more than guys who are ultra conscious about the whole " gender neutral " thing
Ahh you could really only say that about some women in fairness, I know where you're coming from and all, but I couldn't possibly call it either way, such as one example where one of my mates talked about balance in her relationship where she was the more "masculine personality" and her boyfriend was more in touch with his "feminine side" (I have to admit I didn't know where to look the stuff she was coming out with tbh!
), but that's just one girl, whereas another girl could indeed be of the same opinion as yourself that she prefers her men with a pair of balls! :pac:most women are not attracted to nice guys and if they say a guy is " nice " , its a form of abuse , they may in the end have to settle for a " nice " guy but he,s rarely their first choice , its one of the reasons a sizeable number of women end up in physically abusive relationships , they knew the guy was a thug but thugs are attractive to women , most women who are in physically abusive marriages knew the guy was violent prior to marriage but married him anyway due to the sexual attraction
While I agree with you that in my experience most women don't want a guy fawning over them, I wouldn't agree at all with your assessment about abusive relationships tbh.0 -
Ahh you could really only say that about some women in fairness, I know where you're coming from and all, but I couldn't possibly call it either way, such as one example where one of my mates talked about balance in her relationship where she was the more "masculine personality" and her boyfriend was more in touch with his "feminine side" (I have to admit I didn't know where to look the stuff she was coming out with tbh!), but that's just one girl, whereas another girl could indeed be of the same opinion as yourself that she prefers her men with a pair of balls! :pac:
While I agree with you that in my experience most women don't want a guy fawning over them, I wouldn't agree at all with your assessment about abusive relationships tbh.
don't get me wrong , the guys who beat their wives or girlfriends are scumbags but in the vast majority of cases , the women knew the guy they married or hooked up with were violent0 -
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Daveysil15 wrote: »Even if that's the case, there are bound to be some decent guys who get into PUA who just want to learn how to talk to women and get their foot in the door so to speak. Would it be inconceivable for a man to use PUA techniques on a woman, get her number, meet up with her later and then maybe develop a relationship from that?
Not at all Dave, and just to clarify, I'm not saying ALL guys who use PUA are bad guys, they're just being manipulated into believing they need to use this stuff in order to talk to women. It's not as black and white as "All men are bastards" kinda thing (or the opposite "All women are bitches", phrases like that really wrecks my tits - you got fcuked over by one guy or girl, it doesn't mean they're all like that!). That's why some of the guys in this thread who said they were using PUA for a long time and are now finally in a relationship, I'd say it was more to do with the fact that they just matured naturally as they got older. PUA is no fast track into a genuine relationship based on mutual respect (not the sort of nonsense sports nut was talking about earlier).I think its similar to a job interview. Last year I applied for a new position in my job. There was five of us going for it, and each of us had to go through an interview process. Now I'm far from been the most confident person, but the interviewer told me I was the most confident out of the candidates he had interviewed. I did my best to appear that way but it was a bit of a façade tbh. Anyway I got the job after. Did I manipulate the interviewer? Maybe, but if I'm later considered to be a good employee who shows up every day and gets the job done, does it really matter?
Of course it matters, because in an interview situation you're expected to be honest, the interviewer isn't out to catch you out, they expect that you will sell yourself to the best of your ability and they WANT to give you the job, that's why they make the job spec look good on paper to entice you to apply, they too are being manipulative. If I'm interviewing somebody and I get a sense that they're blowing smoke up my tailpipe, I'm immediately going to take a dislike to them, if I sense someone is nervous and doing their best to hide it, I'll offer them a glass of water and ask them to tell me a bit about themselves, standard interview ice breaker question and I find it puts them more at ease when they're talking about something they really do know - themselves!I agree with the counselling thing. I think that would be more effective, but I'd imagine most guys would be reluctant to go down that road because of the stigma associated with it.
What these guys need to realise is that there's less of a stigma associated with counselling than there is with PUA stuff. Most people can identify with somebody attending a therapist, they can't so easily identify with someone using PUA techniques.I agree with this 100%, but what if she see's through the false persona and actually likes the guy underneath?
Someone asked a question earlier and I don't think it was answered so I'll put it out there again for any women who might be reading this: Suppose you met a guy on a night out, really hit it off and started seeing him and eventually you fall for him and it turns into a serious relationship. Then a few months down the line he tells you that he used PUA techniques on you when you first met. Would you dump him because of that? I'm guessing you wouldn't, or I'd be very surprised if you would.
Hardly as black and white now as all that Dave which is why I'd say nobody bothered answering. As Femme Fatale pointed out earlier - there's a scale, that goes right from "be yourself" to "respect the cock". Most people who know nothing of "Pick Up Artists" or "the seduction community", etc, will instantly think negatively of it, because of what the name implies, but to men who want to "pick up" women or "seduce" them, that's exactly what they need to hear. I tried to explain PUA and the seduction community to my wife who'd never heard of it before two weeks ago. She still thinks it's right up there with some of the more ridiculous or hilarious ideas I've come out with (and there's a lot of those), she couldn't take it seriously at all. She'd be completely disgusted by it though if I showed her some of the Return of Kings stuff, as I think most people would, but somebody's buying into it and thinking that's the way people should act and that's the way people should be treated.I think everyone to some extent has a bit of a mask on when you first meet them. First impressions count and you want to put your best foot forward. Plenty of guys put on a front when talking to women. You can spot the silver tongued charmers a mile off. Del boy comes to mind. He wears all the jewellery, the nice clothes and lies about his job and the type of car he drives. Raquel eventually sees through all this and realises he's just a market trader who drives a three wheeled van, but she still likes the decent guy behind the façade. I know that might be an unrealistic example, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
Even if PUA is fundamentally manipulative at its core, that doesn't mean every guy who practises it is. You can take the advice with a grain of salt or treat it as gospel. It's up to the individual what they want to do with it at the end of the day.
Totally get the Del Boy analogy Dave, and that's why men like Del Boy are still single in their 40's and 50's - because they think they have to be something they're not, to impress people. Being fake only attracts fake people. Being genuine and being yourself attracts genuine people. It depends really on which you value more - being fake and surrounding yourself with plenty of fakes, or being genuine and only having a handful of genuine people around you. Flakes will disappear as soon as the shìt hits the fan, genuine people will stick around and help you clean the shìt off the fan.0 -
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