Christmas messages from politicians

Sarky · 07-12-2013 3:34pm #1

Someone left an unmarked envelope in at my house earlier today. I just opened it, and it consists of one of those dull nativity scene Christmas cards with a bible verse and "May Christ bless you & yours" stuff on the inside, and a letter from Cork city council where a Fianna Fail-associated Cllr. Kenneth Noel O'Flynn P.C. is wishing me a holy and happy Christmas. Poor chap seems to think I'm a christian, along with everyone else on the street. That'd probably be a surprise to the halal food shop down the road, but I digress...

The letter is official City Council headed paper, I seem to remember there being some upset about politicians using official paper like this. Can anyone jog my memory, or otherwise provide info on whether it's just him being a bit tasteless or if he's skirting the borders of what's legal?

My name is URL · 07-12-2013 4:50pm

What's tasteless about it... assuming everyone celebrates Christmas or assuming everyone's Christian?

Sarky · 07-12-2013 5:59pm

Both, really, but primarily the latter. Very mixed bunch of people in this area of all sorts of faiths and none. Sending them all a picture of the virgin Mary in a stable and wishing them a happy christmas is at the very least totally tactless. I certainly think it's bad taste.

hfallada · 07-12-2013 6:03pm

Christmas is so much more than a Christian holiday. In fact it's not really Christian at all anymore. It's a time for people to get together and party. It's not uncommon for Jews in New York to put up some decorations.

I know plenty of people who aren't at all Christian and still celebrate Christmas. Christmas is like Europes thanksgiving equivalent.

lazygal · 07-12-2013 6:13pm

hfallada wrote: »

Christmas is so much more than a Christian holiday. In fact it's not really Christian at all anymore. It's a time for people to get together and party. It's not uncommon for Jews in New York to put up some decorations.

I know plenty of people who aren't at all Christian and still celebrate Christmas. Christmas is like Europes thanksgiving equivalent.

You don't need that much cop on to send non religious greetings for the festive season. This smacks of a politician who either doesn't care that not everyone is Christian or doesn't know that a religious card might be inappropriate. Not good either way. I don't think it's appropriate to send religiously tinged correspondence from a state body.

Sulla Felix · 07-12-2013 8:06pm

I'm more annoyed at a public representative using their office to send out inane greetings at all. It's a crass piece of brand positioning.

jimd2 · 07-12-2013 8:44pm

Sulla Felix wrote: »

I'm more annoyed at a public representative using their office to send out inane greetings at all. It's a crass piece of brand positioning.

Absolutely. Too many other issues to contend with.

jimd2 · 07-12-2013 8:49pm

lazygal wrote: »

You don't need that much cop on to send non religious greetings for the festive season. This smacks of a politician who either doesn't care that not everyone is Christian or doesn't know that a religious card might be inappropriate. Not good either way. I don't think it's appropriate to send religiously tinged correspondence from a state body.

The politically correct brigade out again! No need to be getting your knickers in a twist over this.

If you get religuous related cards in the post etc just tear them up. Is that too difficult? And when the rest of us are enjoying the few days make sure you stay at home and ignore the season. If you have kids, tell them its all bull$hit and you are not celebrating anything.

And, yes, if an elderly aunt happens to have the temerity to send you a card with some religuous sentiment make sure you put her in her place about the sheer stupidity of her and her fellow religuous cronies!

jimd2 · 07-12-2013 8:53pm

Sarky wrote: »

Both, really, but primarily the latter. Very mixed bunch of people in this area of all sorts of faiths and none. Sending them all a picture of the virgin Mary in a stable and wishing them a happy christmas is at the very least totally tactless. I certainly think it's bad taste.

I think it is very few people that get offended over cards like this. People will just ignore them and get on with whatever other miriad of issues facing them on a day to day basis. Certainly not tactless or bad taste. I have never ever met anyone complain about this and I would have quite a wide circle of friends, workmates and associates on a variety of committees etc.

Sarky · 07-12-2013 9:32pm

I'm really glad you have a wide circle of friends, but that doesn't make you right. It's a waste of money and it's a tactless assumption that shows a complete lack of knowledge of the area a politician is supposed to represent.

Thanks for labelling me as politically correct though. I don't know where we'd all be without well connected people with loads of friends like yourself to tell us what we should be thinking.

Gah Humbug 55 · 07-12-2013 11:04pm

i am reminded of this:

Happy Solstice, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanza Sorry for the delay...our Legal Department just approved the following Holiday Greeting:

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday(tm), practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secularpersuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not topractice religious or secular traditions at all . . . and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society havehelped make America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual orientation of the wishee.

By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion oft he wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual pplication of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.

lazygal · 07-12-2013 11:21pm

jimd2 wrote: »

The politically correct brigade out again! No need to be getting your knickers in a twist over this.

If you get religuous related cards in the post etc just tear them up. Is that too difficult? And when the rest of us are enjoying the few days make sure you stay at home and ignore the season. If you have kids, tell them its all bull$hit and you are not celebrating anything.

And, yes, if an elderly aunt happens to have the temerity to send you a card with some religuous sentiment make sure you put her in her place about the sheer stupidity of her and her fellow religuous cronies!

First, its "religious". Second, I've no problem with being politically correct. Third, the "season" can be enjoyed by all as its a traditional time for celebration, religious appropriations of the season aside. Fourth, I don't tell my kids any religion is bull****,just that we don't follow any of them. Fifth, if people spend their own, as opposed to state, money on festive greetings they can send whatever legal images they like, elderly or not.

jimd2 · 08-12-2013 12:33am

Sarky wrote: »

I'm really glad you have a wide circle of friends, but that doesn't make you right. It's a waste of money and it's a tactless assumption that shows a complete lack of knowledge of the area a politician is supposed to represent.

Thanks for labelling me as politically correct though. I don't know where we'd all be without well connected people with loads of friends like yourself to tell us what we should be thinking.

I don't know what makes you believe that I am well connected and I am not telling you what you should be thinking. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am telling you what you should be thinking.

jimd2 · 08-12-2013 12:36am

lazygal wrote: »

First, its "religious". Second, I've no problem with being politically correct. Third, the "season" can be enjoyed by all as its a traditional time for celebration, religious appropriations of the season aside. Fourth, I don't tell my kids any religion is bull****,just that we don't follow any of them. Fifth, if people spend their own, as opposed to state, money on festive greetings they can send whatever legal images they like, elderly or not.

As I said don't be getting your knickers in a twist over this issue. Not an issue worthy of a thread on this site and is only brought up by people that seem to have very little to worry about.

jimd2 · 08-12-2013 12:39am

lazygal wrote: »

First, its "religious". Second, I've no problem with being politically correct. Third, the "season" can be enjoyed by all as its a traditional time for celebration, religious appropriations of the season aside. Fourth, I don't tell my kids any religion is bull****,just that we don't follow any of them. Fifth, if people spend their own, as opposed to state, money on festive greetings they can send whatever legal images they like, elderly or not.

And regarding celebrations I see that you don't rule out celebrating Christmas though you shun everything else to do with religion......how am I not surprised.

Sarky · 08-12-2013 1:10am

I don't think you could miss the point any more than you are doing right now.

[-0-] · 08-12-2013 1:11am

Dead right Sarky. This would annoy me to no end. I'd love to know the legality of it.

Geomy · 08-12-2013 9:47am

Sarky wrote: »

Someone left an unmarked envelope in at my house earlier today. I just opened it, and it consists of one of those dull nativity scene Christmas cards with a bible verse and "May Christ bless you & yours" stuff on the inside, and a letter from Cork city council where a Fianna Fail-associated Cllr. Kenneth Noel O'Flynn P.C. is wishing me a holy and happy Christmas. Poor chap seems to think I'm a christian, along with everyone else on the street. That'd probably be a surprise to the halal food shop down the road, but I digress...

The letter is official City Council headed paper, I seem to remember there being some upset about politicians using official paper like this. Can anyone jog my memory, or otherwise provide info on whether it's just him being a bit tasteless or if he's skirting the borders of what's legal?

Maybe he should have sent you one of those stuffed Coca Cola Polar Bears.

And a box of Seasons Greetings. ..

Bah humbug....

Geomy · 08-12-2013 9:47am

Sarky wrote: »

Someone left an unmarked envelope in at my house earlier today. I just opened it, and it consists of one of those dull nativity scene Christmas cards with a bible verse and "May Christ bless you & yours" stuff on the inside, and a letter from Cork city council where a Fianna Fail-associated Cllr. Kenneth Noel O'Flynn P.C. is wishing me a holy and happy Christmas. Poor chap seems to think I'm a christian, along with everyone else on the street. That'd probably be a surprise to the halal food shop down the road, but I digress...

The letter is official City Council headed paper, I seem to remember there being some upset about politicians using official paper like this. Can anyone jog my memory, or otherwise provide info on whether it's just him being a bit tasteless or if he's skirting the borders of what's legal?

Maybe he should have sent you one of those stuffed Coca Cola Polar Bears.

And a box of Seasons Greetings. ..

Bah humbug....

McDook · 08-12-2013 9:58am

Please never let me become the atheist who wants to spoil christmas for everyone else.
Best one I saw last year was a friend who wouldnt take his elderly mother to mass christmas morning because HE didnt believe in it.
Another atheist friend of ours saw how much it meant to her and brought her. I would have too if id known about it before hand.
Some people are just dying to be offended.

Geomy · 08-12-2013 10:10am

McDook wrote: »

Please never let me become the atheist who wants to spoil christmas for everyone else.
Best one I saw last year was a friend who wouldnt take his elderly mother to mass christmas morning because HE didnt believe in it.
Another atheist friend of ours saw how much it meant to her and brought her. I would have too if id known about it before hand.
Some people are just dying to be offended.

Those kind of people should seek professional help, I don't think they're even aware of the way they are. ...

It just goes to show how something they don't believe in, has such a negative impact on their decisions.

jimd2 · 08-12-2013 12:13pm

McDook wrote: »

Please never let me become the atheist who wants to spoil christmas for everyone else.
Best one I saw last year was a friend who wouldnt take his elderly mother to mass christmas morning because HE didnt believe in it.
Another atheist friend of ours saw how much it meant to her and brought her. I would have too if id known about it before hand.
Some people are just dying to be offended.

I agree fully and fair play to your friend for doing that. I am sure it added to both their Christmas.

I think that the key issue on this thread is the fact that politicians are still using state funds to send their cards, not the traditional religious emblems on those cards. If said politicians think it is important enough to send the cards then they should pay for them themselves.

McDook · 08-12-2013 12:26pm

jimd2 wrote: »

I agree fully and fair play to your friend for doing that. I am sure it added to both their Christmas.

I think that the key issue on this thread is the fact that politicians are still using state funds to send their cards, not the traditional religious emblems on those cards. If said politicians think it is important enough to send the cards then they should pay for them themselves.

Well then it shouldnt be in an atheist forum to be fair.
But the OP certainly did make a religious issue out of it. That and actually posting it under this category.

Qs · 08-12-2013 2:02pm

lazygal wrote: »

First, its "religious". Second, I've no problem with being politically correct.

Indeed, I'm very suspicious of anyone who think political correctness is such a terrible thing.

Xmas isn't only a religious celebration. If that's part of it for you then I hope you find it very fulfilling. However a lot of people don't have religion as part of their Xmas and certainly many non-Christains celebrate at Xmas. Expecting politicians not to send you religious iconography is hardly being an anti-Xmas spoil sport.

kylith · 08-12-2013 3:04pm

jimd2 wrote: »

And regarding celebrations I see that you don't rule out celebrating Christmas though you shun everything else to do with religion......how am I not surprised.

Probably because Christmas has been around for, what, 1000/1500 years (much less than that in its current form, of course) whereas Mid-Winter Festivals have been around since, ooh, pretty much the dawn of civilisation (if not the dawn of humanity).

If anything, everyone else should be annoyed at Christians for trying to make something exclusively Christian out of what could well be humanity's oldest annual party.

Sarky · 08-12-2013 3:20pm

Being annoyed at someone's thoughtlessness is suddenly trying to spoil Christmas for a few people. Jesus, I'm a monster. How very dare I mention that Christian blessings aren't appropriate greetings for non-christians.

Would anyone like to argue against something I actually said? Or are you, ahem, just dying to be offended?

Geomy · 08-12-2013 3:29pm

Sarky wrote: »

Being annoyed at someone's thoughtlessness is suddenly trying to spoil Christmas for a few people. Jesus, I'm a monster. How very dare I mention that Christian blessings aren't appropriate greetings for non-christians.

Would anyone like to argue against something I actually said? Or are you, ahem, just dying to be offended?

PMSL

Geomy · 08-12-2013 3:34pm

kylith wrote: »

Probably because Christmas has been around for, what, 1000/1500 years (much less than that in its current form, of course) whereas Mid-Winter Festivals have been around since, ooh, pretty much the dawn of civilisation (if not the dawn of humanity).

If anything, everyone else should be annoyed at Christians for trying to make something exclusively Christian out of what could well be humanity's oldest annual party.

I don't see anything Christian about local Christmas fairs and party's. ...

Up Here in North Clare it has a more pagan element to it rather than Christian, we don't have the parish priest or Pastor trying to ruin Christmas for the Atheists and non Christians.

Does this happen in other places ?

lazygal · 08-12-2013 3:44pm

Geomy wrote: »

I don't see anything Christian about local Christmas fairs and party's. ...

Up Here in North Clare it has a more pagan element to it rather than Christian, we don't have the parish priest or Pastor trying to ruin Christmas for the Atheists and non Christians.

Does this happen in other places ?

How would one go about ruining Christmas for atheists? A ban on biscuits maybe.....

Animord · 08-12-2013 4:24pm

Sarky wrote: »

Someone left an unmarked envelope in at my house earlier today. I just opened it, and it consists of one of those dull nativity scene Christmas cards with a bible verse and "May Christ bless you & yours" stuff on the inside, and a letter from Cork city council where a Fianna Fail-associated Cllr. Kenneth Noel O'Flynn P.C. is wishing me a holy and happy Christmas. Poor chap seems to think I'm a christian, along with everyone else on the street. That'd probably be a surprise to the halal food shop down the road, but I digress...

The letter is official City Council headed paper, I seem to remember there being some upset about politicians using official paper like this. Can anyone jog my memory, or otherwise provide info on whether it's just him being a bit tasteless or if he's skirting the borders of what's legal?

Who has paid for this card to be sent to you Sarky? Is it tax payers money?

Sarky · 08-12-2013 4:33pm

Animord wrote: »

Who has paid for this card to be sent to you Sarky? Is it tax payers money?

It's City Council paper, so the City Council paid for it. Which means taxpayer money.

Christmas messages from politicians

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