Bitcoin - ###Mod Note in 1st Post - Please Read###

AtomicHorror · 07-12-2013 03:36PM

Dean820 wrote: »

I find this whole concept fascinating.

What's the latest price today and why is it dropping? Because of China's announcement?

Indirectly, yes. The Chinese company Baidu, who were one of the biggest companies accepting BTC for payments, suspended acceptance of BTC. So BTC just became less useful, hence the drop in value.

I think perhaps adoption by large companies with a lot of momentum, shareholders and boards to answer to etc. is going to be very dicey until the price stabilises (assuming that ever happens). The best hope for growth before that is from small, agile businesses accepting BTC.

harryr711 · 07-12-2013 03:47PM

alb wrote: »

Trying to buy Bitcoins online is one of the best ways to find out why Bitcoin is useful as you will be inconvenienced by the legacy snail banking system, you'll have to transfer money to an exchange such as bitstamp.com, which will take at least a couple of days and will have to verify your identity. You could also try localbitcoins.com to buy directly from someone either with a bank transfer or in person with cash, but I've never used it.

So it takes at least a couple of days for a bitcoin exchange to receive your funds, but it typically takes a standard forex exchange one day to receive your funds, yet "snail-banking" is to blame for the longer time taken by the bitcoin exchange?

MrBlack93 · 07-12-2013 04:18PM

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57614038-76/uk-man-tries-to-retrieve-$7.5-million-in-bitcoins-from-dump/

If this had happened to me I would not be able to live with myself

alb · 07-12-2013 04:23PM

harryr711 wrote: »

So it takes at least a couple of days for a bitcoin exchange to receive your funds, but it typically takes a standard forex exchange one day to receive your funds, yet "snail-banking" is to blame for the longer time taken by the bitcoin exchange?

SEPA bank transfers don't work on weekends, and take 1-3 days, what more can I say. You're saying I can set up on a forex exchange and have money on there by tomorrow from a standard bank account?

kjl · 07-12-2013 04:49PM

fortwilliam wrote: »

How would a novice go about buying $200 worth, just for the fun of it..
do you just buy off a website with your credit card?

https://www.mtgox.com/?Currency=EUR

AtomicHorror · 07-12-2013 05:06PM

kjl wrote: »

https://www.mtgox.com/?Currency=EUR

https://www.bitstamp.net is typically cheaper and they verify accounts faster too.

harryr711 · 07-12-2013 05:50PM

alb wrote: »

SEPA bank transfers don't work on weekends, and take 1-3 days, what more can I say. You're saying I can set up on a forex exchange and have money on there by tomorrow from a standard bank account?

Bitstamp, since you mentioned them, say 2-5 days to receive your deposit money. Standard forex exchanges will typically be 1 day (from a standard bank account). No mention of weekends, we're talking working days. You can also lock in exchange rates before you deposit money with forex exchanges, I'm not aware of any bitcoin exchanges that allow that, which leaves you exposed to exchange rate fluctuations while waiting for money to clear.

alb · 07-12-2013 05:54PM

harryr711 wrote: »

Bitstamp, since you mentioned them, say 2-5 days to receive your deposit money. Standard forex exchanges will typically be 1 day (from a standard bank account). No mention of weekends. You can also lock in exchange rates before you deposit money with forex exchanges, I'm not aware of any bitcoin exchanges that allow that, which leaves you exposed to exchange rate fluctuations while waiting for money to clear.

I'm guessing the forex is quicker as they have a bank a/c in the country? Bitstamp's bank is in Slovenia.

I agree about the exchange rate changing while waiting for deposit, most exchanges (including bitstamp and mtgox) do not provide this feature, and it's an important aspect to be aware of during a time of high volatility like today.

bitcoin.de and I guess local bitcoins (though I've never used it) are different kinds of exchanges as you do not deposit money with the exchange themselves, but they act as an escrow for the coins, you transfer the money to the seller directly - but price is locked in immediately on these exchanges.

IvaBigWun · 08-12-2013 12:22AM

Its been dropping faster than Imogen Thomas' knickers at a football convention over the past hour https://www.bitstamp.net/

Sell!

Sell!

How can this be sold "short" like you would a share?

JONJO THE MISER · 08-12-2013 12:37AM

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Its been dropping faster than Imogen Thomas' knickers at a football convention over the past hour https://www.bitstamp.net/

Sell!

Sell!

How can this be sold "short" like you would a share?

You can short it o Plus500, they do a daily bitcoin price.

thunderdog · 08-12-2013 12:41AM

Its all good. Will be back over 1000 dollars a bitcoin by Xmas

IvaBigWun · 08-12-2013 12:53AM

thunderdog wrote: »

Its all good. Will be back over 1000 dollars a bitcoin by Xmas

Its down $100 in a day. If this was a share people would be popping valium like Smarties

Capt'n Midnight · 08-12-2013 01:22PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Indirectly, yes. The Chinese company Baidu, who were one of the biggest companies accepting BTC for payments, suspended acceptance of BTC. So BTC just became less useful, hence the drop in value.

I think perhaps adoption by large companies with a lot of momentum, shareholders and boards to answer to etc. is going to be very dicey until the price stabilises (assuming that ever happens). The best hope for growth before that is from small, agile businesses accepting BTC.

There's agile and there's http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/12/06/bitcoin-in-china-the-fall-out-from-chinese-government-banning-real-world-use/
The People’s Bank of China and four other ministries and agencies announced that banks and payment companies were prohibited from dealing with the coin,
...
The notice says that financial institutions and payment institutions can’t start using bitcoin, or exchange it for RMB, or act as a middleperson for bitcoin payments.

Am I right in assuming that this means that bitcoin can't be used for goods or services anymore in China and that it will hinder people trying to use them to transfer wealth out of China ?

Ah well, better get back to gold farming.

alb · 08-12-2013 02:32PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There's agile and there's http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/12/06/bitcoin-in-china-the-fall-out-from-chinese-government-banning-real-world-use/

Am I right in assuming that this means that bitcoin can't be used for goods or services anymore in China and that it will hinder people trying to use them to transfer wealth out of China ?

They classified it as a commodity not as legal tender. I don't speak Chinese so I can't say for sure what they said, but they did not outright ban Bitcoin. From my understanding they want to isolate the risk of Bitcoin from the existing financial institutions, so that if it does go belly up it won't bring down their financial institutions.

They also want to have some regulation over exchanges, so btcchina.com and btc38.com are not illegal, are still running, but require users to submit identification now for anti-money laundering measures.

I'm not certain of the consequences of businesses accepting Bitcoin as payment in China, it would seem a couple of places that were accepting it have put it on hold at least, but it may be due to just wanting to make sure they are complying with the new regulation.

If China was completely against Bitcoin it would have banned it outright. It did not do this.

Some good reads here:
http://www.quora.com/China/How-will-Chinas-recent-crack-down-on-Bitcoins-impact-its-near-term-and-long-term-value/answer/Joseph-Wang-9
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/8778/bitcoin-chinas-new-special-economic-zone/

magic_murph · 08-12-2013 08:30PM

I transferred money to my MTGOX account last tuesday but still hasn't appeared - I fear that money is gone by by

Dean820 · 08-12-2013 08:51PM

magic_murph wrote: »

I transferred money to my MTGOX account last tuesday but still hasn't appeared - I fear that money is gone by by

Ask on reddit.com in the BitCoin section, they are good for providing information and will tell you if this is normal behaviour for the website.

AtomicHorror · 09-12-2013 11:49AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There's agile and there's http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/12/06/bitcoin-in-china-the-fall-out-from-chinese-government-banning-real-world-use/
The People’s Bank of China and four other ministries and agencies announced that banks and payment companies were prohibited from dealing with the coin,
...
The notice says that financial institutions and payment institutions can’t start using bitcoin, or exchange it for RMB, or act as a middleperson for bitcoin payments.

Am I right in assuming that this means that bitcoin can't be used for goods or services anymore in China and that it will hinder people trying to use them to transfer wealth out of China ?

Nope, BTC can't be used by banks and other financial service providers but for everyone else it's treated as a commodity and can be exchanged. Also BTC exchanges are still ok.

The reason for the crash was Baidu, and Baidu made no mention of the Chinese government's position on BTC as far as I know. They had their own reasons for suspending support which seemed to be related to the volume of sales and the difficulty in making regular exchanges to freeze the value of those payments. As I said, big companies aren't well equipped to deal in BTC right now, and the BTC infrastructure (ie the exchanges) seems poorly adapted to deal with them too. That's why I reckon lots of small, agile businesses are what BTC really needs right now. Far more robust since no one business can crash the economy.

Ace2007 · 09-12-2013 11:32PM

Have watch the price go up and down and back up again, I now see a litecoin on the plus500 site, however I don't want CFD, is it possible for me to just buy the coins on some relatively safe site?

xploderz · 10-12-2013 12:19AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Have watch the price go up and down and back up again, I now see a litecoin on the plus500 site, however I don't want CFD, is it possible for me to just buy the coins on some relatively safe site?

Just out of interest what is your main reason behind wanting to buy litecoins?

srsly78 · 10-12-2013 12:26AM

magic_murph wrote: »

I transferred money to my MTGOX account last tuesday but still hasn't appeared - I fear that money is gone by by

Did you put the special reference on the transfer as instructed? If not they will have to manually process it. It's a transfer to poland it can take a few days.

There are no reports of mtgox scamming people, do you think you are the first?

Mint Aero · 10-12-2013 12:29AM

xploderz wrote: »

Just out of interest what is your main reason behind wanting to buy litecoins?

Because they're amazeballs, does one need a better reason?

magic_murph · 10-12-2013 01:39PM

It took a couple of emails to the support team and it now resolved.
That was my 3rd transaction to MTGOX - each required a nudge to the support team but was always resolved within a day or two of the initial email.

srsly78 · 10-12-2013 01:49PM

Why didn't you put the given reference on the transfer as per the instructions? No nudges needed then.

magic_murph · 10-12-2013 03:45PM

Ohh I did - I followed the instructions to a tee - as previously mentioned this was my 3rd transaction and each time instructions followed as outlined.
Perhaps I was just being impatient but did give MTGOX 4-5 days after I had confirmation that the transaction had cleared on my side.

Either way - the funds appeared and I will more than likely use them again in the near future.

srsly78 · 10-12-2013 03:52PM

What excuse did they give as the reason for the delay? Lodging money was always quite fast for me in the past, but it's been a while since I have dabbled.

magic_murph · 10-12-2013 04:18PM

no excuse given - I even emailed via facebook.
They asked did I put in the reference code.
I told them I did.
couple of hours later the funds were in my account.

Would probably be easier if you could use a debit card and just make a deposit but they prob have good reason for doing things the way they do.

srsly78 · 10-12-2013 04:19PM

They have a bank account in poland, that's it. No euro merchant facilities. Debit cards etc attract a couple of percent fee.

Genghiz Cohen · 10-12-2013 04:59PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Have watch the price go up and down and back up again, I now see a litecoin on the plus500 site, however I don't want CFD, is it possible for me to just buy the coins on some relatively safe site?

I bought off Bitstamp.
I registered and had to submit some photo Id and proof of address. They approved those in a few days and then I transfered €150 to them and it showed up in a few more days and then I was able to put in an order for BTC and it was in my personal wallet and backed up within another 2 days.

usersame · 10-12-2013 05:25PM

https://www.eircoin.net/ simplest way, im not affiliated with them but have used

magic_murph · 10-12-2013 05:28PM

Good stuff.
I supplied all the documentation at time of registering.
I have a few quid resting with MTGOX so will stick with them for now but will check out Eircoin down the line to see what their service is like.

Cheers

Bitcoin - ###Mod Note in 1st Post - Please Read###

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