Uk to abolish tax disc, saves 7million Stg a year

munchkin_utd · 05-12-2013 8:17am #1

So, the uk chancellor is set to announce the scrapping of the tax disc in the uk this morning.
With number plate recognition it's no longer needed.
Seems fairly sensible to be honest as the excuse of the disc in the post is no longer valid now that the police/guards have access to the records directly anyhow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518477/Death-tax-disc-You-wont-need-windscreen-pay.html?ico=news%5Eheadlines

bigroad · 05-12-2013 8:43am

Yes and it will only take another 10years for it to happen here.There is no need to have guards standing at the side of the road checking for a stupid paper disc.

beertons · 05-12-2013 8:46am

Oh in a perfect world.

\goes to look in the barge thread again.

Guy:Incognito · 05-12-2013 9:40am

beertons wrote: »

Oh in a perfect world.

\goes to look in the barge thread again.

The disc is going, not the tax.

As for how long itll take here, it depends how long it takes to build up the required anpr network.

beertons · 05-12-2013 9:43am

*bangs head off table

Scortho · 05-12-2013 10:01am

beertons wrote: »

*bangs head off table

Cheer up, if the tax was going, you wouldn't be able to have the barge.

High tax is the reason they're so cheap

And I agree with the op, there's no need to have discs on cars. Another waste of Garda time at checkpoints checking for tax.

Tzardine · 05-12-2013 10:07am

The article mentions that they are bringing in direct debit payments for the car tax.

That is something that I would love here.

djimi · 05-12-2013 10:16am

Strituck wrote: »

The article mentions that they are bringing in direct debit payments for the car tax.

That is something that I would love here.

Makes perfect sense; no idea why we dont have that option here. Id love to be able to set up a monthly DD to take care of motor tax and then just forget about it.

magicbastarder · 05-12-2013 10:18am

we should abolish flat rate motor tax completely and load it onto petrol/diesel. less hassle, and it's much more equitable.

Professey Chin · 05-12-2013 10:19am

djimi wrote: »

Makes perfect sense; no idea why we dont have that option here. Id love to be able to set up a monthly DD to take care of motor tax and then just forget about it.

The only problem is they'd add a nice % on it for "admin"

Tzardine · 05-12-2013 10:22am

magicbastarder wrote: »

we should abolish flat rate motor tax completely and load it onto petrol/diesel. less hassle, and it's much more equitable.

Would not really work.

Fuel laundering would spike hugely and the administrative costs of the scheme would push the price up too far. You would beg for the good old days of paying road tax to come back.

maximoose · 05-12-2013 10:25am

djimi wrote: »

Makes perfect sense; no idea why we dont have that option here. Id love to be able to set up a monthly DD to take care of motor tax and then just forget about it.

The most recent AA survey had a couple of questions about paying tax by DD, maybe it is something being looked in to.

I'd love it.

bigroad · 05-12-2013 10:28am

Its time to scrap road tax or whatever they call it now.We have paid enough at this stage.

keithclancy · 05-12-2013 10:30am

Only benefit of the tax disc is for older people that don't have access to online services.

Also having it on the window is a constant reminder.

Over here (Holland) you just get a bill in the post every 3 months and pay it online or at the post office, everything is done off your license plate.

If you want it 'off the road' you declare this up front and the bills stop coming.

I don't know anyone that doesn't pay Motor Tax/make false declarations over here as there is zero tolerance enforcement.

Scortho · 05-12-2013 10:31am

There is a way to pay your motor tax monthly that works out cheaper than paying it quartly or every six months.
Take out a credit union loan to pay the car tax and pay it back over 12 months.
The interest on the loan is less than what the government charge you!:D

munchkin_utd · 05-12-2013 10:33am

bigroad wrote: »

Its time to scrap road tax or whatever they call it now.We have paid enough at this stage.

if folks would accept the fairest system of collecting taxes which is that income taxes (which tax most those who have most) rather than laying it heavy on consumer and indirect taxes which his poorer people proportionately more than the rich, then you could do such a thing.

But folks in Ireland are allergic to the idea of income tax and would abolish it/ vote in masses for any party which offered it EVEN THOUGH the only folks who would benefit from such a move are the rich.

on the flip side, there was an opinion poll recently in Germany and folks were asked should income taxes+social charges (which are much higher than Ireland) should be reduced, and the majority said no.
Why, because the cash has to come from somewhere and if not from income tax then it'll come from some other channel, like what happens in Ireland with high VAT and motoring charges.

anyhow,
back on topic and the new move in the UK will actually reduce the cost of motoring and increase affordability as they are offering a 5% discount to pay in installments every 2 months by direct debit.
So less at one time and 5% less of an overall bill.
(read it in the UK version of the metro paper this morning)

hi5 · 05-12-2013 10:39am

If the tax disc goes, counter staff will be let go so it won't happen here.

Oafley Jones · 05-12-2013 10:39am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

So, the uk chancellor is set to announce the scrapping of the tax disc in the uk this morning.
With number plate recognition it's no longer needed.
Seems fairly sensible to be honest as the excuse of the disc in the post is no longer valid now that the police/guards have access to the records directly anyhow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518477/Death-tax-disc-You-wont-need-windscreen-pay.html?ico=news%5Eheadlines

So how does that work at a checkpoint, when you've a high volume of cars to process. Is there a hand held scanner for the plates, do the police have to input the number plate manually?

Scortho · 05-12-2013 10:41am

hi5 wrote: »

If the tax disc goes, counter staff will be let go so it won't happen here.

No they won't, they'll be redeployed to another area where they can serve a more useful purpose

Guy:Incognito · 05-12-2013 10:41am

Oafley Jones wrote: »

So how does that work at a checkpoint, when you've a high volume of cars to process. Is there a hand held scanner for the plates, do the police have to input the number plate manually?

Its shown some checkpoints on the likes of roadwars. They set up a tripod mounted anpr camera and the cars just roll past.

magicbastarder · 05-12-2013 10:44am

Strituck wrote: »

Would not really work.

Fuel laundering would spike hugely and the administrative costs of the scheme would push the price up too far. You would beg for the good old days of paying road tax to come back.

less admin on adding 1% extra on fuel, since there is already a process in place for this anyway. you would not be creating any overhead.

in other countries - to the best of my knowledge - they not only do this successfully, they also add third party insurance onto fuel. so you cannot drive uninsured. south africa does this, i think.

05-12-2013 10:47am

to remove the tax disc's here, you would pretty much need the whole road network covered in a decent ANPR system like the UK or many other countries have - right now we only have a few squad cars with cameras - the cost of covering a road network the size of ours with relatively so few cars on it might prevent this from ever happening here - even thought the technology is increasingly becoming more affordable. I wouldnt expect it any time soon.

cormie · 05-12-2013 10:47am

Will this see an increase in forged registration plates I wonder? All you need is to find a car similar to yours with an open drive insurance policy?

Tea 1000 · 05-12-2013 10:51am

Scortho wrote: »

No they won't, they'll be redeployed to another area where they can serve a more useful purpose

Yes, because if it's one thing we're short of, it's public sector workers. Where did all those who used to have to deal with everyone's tax renewal (before online renewal) go? Still there, doing frig all.
Anyway, it'll never work here. The Irish are hell bent on putting more scraps of paper on the windscreen, not less. It's a joke. NCT and Insurance shouldn't be on the windscreen at all.

DubTony · 05-12-2013 11:09am

“ ... this country will move into the 21st century being a laughing stock with our stupid aul pencils tax discs”.

corktina · 05-12-2013 11:20am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

if folks would accept the fairest system of collecting taxes which is that income taxes (which tax most those who have most) rather than laying it heavy on consumer and indirect taxes which his poorer people proportionately more than the rich, then you could do such a thing.

But folks in Ireland are allergic to the idea of income tax and would abolish it/ vote in masses for any party which offered it EVEN THOUGH the only folks who would benefit from such a move are the rich.

on the flip side, there was an opinion poll recently in Germany and folks were asked should income taxes+social charges (which are much higher than Ireland) should be reduced, and the majority said no.
Why, because the cash has to come from somewhere and if not from income tax then it'll come from some other channel, like what happens in Ireland with high VAT and motoring charges.

anyhow,
back on topic and the new move in the UK will actually reduce the cost of motoring and increase affordability as they are offering a 5% discount to pay in installments every 2 months by direct debit.
So less at one time and 5% less of an overall bill.
(read it in the UK version of the metro paper this morning)

Fairest system? Charge more tax to those who have both an income AND who are declaring it? Fairst way to pay for the roads is to charge those more who use them more and not charge those who don't use them

Ninap · 05-12-2013 11:22am

I wouldn't mind just having one disc in the window (like in the UK at present); it's having to have at least three, plus parking discs and the like that is ridiculous. Takes up way too much windscreen space - it restricts visibility and looks terrible. The insurance disc is pointless - you could have got a 12 month one and stopped paying your direct debit, and the NCT one is equally pointless; just make it obligatory to produce evidence of valid NCT to obtain a tax disc.

keithclancy · 05-12-2013 11:24am

Ninap wrote: »

I wouldn't mind just having one disc in the window (like in the UK at present); it's having to have at least three, plus parking discs and the like that is ridiculous. Takes up way too much windscreen space - it restricts visibility and looks terrible. The insurance disc is pointless - you could have got a 12 month one and stopped paying your direct debit, and the NCT one is equally pointless; just make it obligatory to produce evidence of valid NCT to obtain a tax disc.

Then the parking wardens couldn't do you for failure to display

guttenberg · 05-12-2013 11:36am

Ninap wrote: »

I wouldn't mind just having one disc in the window (like in the UK at present); it's having to have at least three, plus parking discs and the like that is ridiculous. Takes up way too much windscreen space - it restricts visibility and looks terrible. The insurance disc is pointless - you could have got a 12 month one and stopped paying your direct debit, and the NCT one is equally pointless; just make it obligatory to produce evidence of valid NCT to obtain a tax disc.

If the car is older than 3 years old in Britain/4 in NI then it'll have two discs in the window, one for MOT one for tax.

dgt · 05-12-2013 11:39am

If that were implemented here there would be an outburst of show plates/block felt font

Cee-Jay-Cee · 05-12-2013 11:51am

It will NEVER happen here, ever. If the uk can only save £7 million from it then the savings here would be less than €1 or 2 million as we have considerably less cars/vehicles than the uk and so the cost of implementing it would far outweigh the savings. The cost of updating computer systems and installing anpr cameras in all patrol cars would probably run into tens of millions.

blastman · 05-12-2013 12:25pm

Ninap wrote: »

I wouldn't mind just having one disc in the window (like in the UK at present); it's having to have at least three, plus parking discs and the like that is ridiculous. Takes up way too much windscreen space - it restricts visibility and looks terrible. The insurance disc is pointless - you could have got a 12 month one and stopped paying your direct debit, and the NCT one is equally pointless; just make it obligatory to produce evidence of valid NCT to obtain a tax disc.

They tried that before. People just stopped paying their road tax, so the government decided it was better to have the money and a load of potentially unsafe cars.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2013 1:43pm

on the flip side, there was an opinion poll recently in Germany and folks were asked should income taxes+social charges (which are much higher than Ireland) should be reduced, and the majority said no.

no doubt because most of those surveyed either arent working or pay the lower rate of tax... If you asked me that question here, I'd say leave the USC, PRSI, PAYE - lower rate as is & reduce the higher rate, they are the ones getting absolutely shafted, so that others dont have to...

SpaceTime · 05-12-2013 1:46pm

Makes perfect sense really. They've no need to clutter up your windows with discs to prove you're taxed, insured or NCT/MOT'd as it's all on a database anyway.

Also as we have seen with the theft of blank NCT discs, it's hardly difficult to defraud a paper based system.

Caliden · 05-12-2013 2:33pm

Just had a quick look at the UK tax bands.
They use the CO2 system from 2001 onwards so there's different bands there. Highest band is £490 PER YEAR!

For new cars bought in 2013, this rate doubles.

For cars registered before 2001 there are 2 bands, < 1549 cc and 1549+, £140 and £225 respectively.....

My god are we getting shafted.....

See for yourselves: http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/new-vehicle-tax.aspx

alfreg · 05-12-2013 2:55pm

guttenberg wrote: »

If the car is older than 3 years old in Britain/4 in NI then it'll have two discs in the window, one for MOT one for tax.

There is no MOT disk in Britain, just NI. All cars at present in Britain, regardless of age, just have one disk, the tax disk.

bmwguy · 05-12-2013 3:17pm

What can Anpr actually flag? Just tax?

corktina · 05-12-2013 3:30pm

Caliden wrote: »

Just had a quick look at the UK tax bands.
They use the CO2 system from 2001 onwards so there's different bands there. Highest band is £490 PER YEAR!

For new cars bought in 2013, this rate doubles.

For cars registered before 2001 there are 2 bands, < 1549 cc and 1549+, £140 and £225 respectively.....

My god are we getting shafted.....

See for yourselves: http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/new-vehicle-tax.aspx

try comparing their Council Tax with our Property Tax and you'll see a different picture.

listermint · 05-12-2013 3:37pm

corktina wrote: »

try comparing their Council Tax with our Property Tax and you'll see a different picture.

Comparisons with the UK for the most part are poor due to economys of scale. But there is no one here that can advocate our VRT system and our Road Tax system with 1811 Euro on a CC based vehicle.

No one.

corktina · 05-12-2013 3:40pm

economies of scale would make the gap even wider in the case of Council/property tax!

Yakuza · 05-12-2013 4:30pm

It would be a great thing if it came in here, fewer bits of paper on the window looks better. On a slight aside, I got an email yesterday that serves as my tax renewal (it stated I won't be getting a paper one). I do remember giving them my email address when renewing online last year, but I hadn't heard they'd started issuing renewals by email until it landed in my in-box.

Stinicker · 05-12-2013 4:31pm

OSI wrote: »

In Ireland? Just tax and links to the insurance details you gave when renewing tax.

In UK they can check everything from Tax, MOT and Insurance to whether the registered owner is banned from driving.

It also flags if the owner has prior convictions and if they have a warrant for their arrest. If anyone ever watches the UK police shows on Sky you will see that cops can be just driving along and the ANPR will beeb and next thing they search a car belong to a person with priors for drug possession and next thing the driver is busted for a joint or something.

I'd like to see the speed camera vans and Squad cars here equipped with ANPR to bust uninsured drivers and those with no NCT. The UK Motor Tax system is very fair and they get a hell of alot more in return for their Motor Tax than we do in terms of quality roads and good quality cars instead of the paddy misery spec cars we see here because of VRT.

TMC99 · 05-12-2013 6:46pm

00833827 wrote: »

to remove the tax disc's here, you would pretty much need the whole road network covered in a decent ANPR system like the UK or many other countries have - right now we only have a few squad cars with cameras - the cost of covering a road network the size of ours with relatively so few cars on it might prevent this from ever happening here - even thought the technology is increasingly becoming more affordable. I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

I don't see why you would need any road network covered with cameras - today you have manual checkpoints which slows down traffic while checking. You would still have 'checkpoints' but just a camera on road side which would be more accurate and quicker - same as a speed check. You could put some permanent cameras on main roads like M50 or any of the motorways if required - but would be no different to the way they enforce it today, just quicker and as a result could be more frequent.

Fred Swanson · 05-12-2013 9:12pm

This post has been deleted.

CiniO · 05-12-2013 9:35pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What document proves the ownership then?

Fred Swanson · 05-12-2013 9:38pm

This post has been deleted.

SpaceTime · 05-12-2013 9:38pm

bmwguy wrote: »

What can Anpr actually flag? Just tax?

Anything that's linked to its database.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 05-12-2013 9:41pm

if I want to buy a car to own in the UK , how do I know how much tax is left ?

CiniO · 05-12-2013 9:43pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I understand if you buy from garage, you get an invoice.

But what if you buy privately?

Fred Swanson · 05-12-2013 10:00pm

This post has been deleted.

slimjimmc · 05-12-2013 11:34pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Indeed, an example would be a car bought on hire purchase. The HP company remains legal owner until full payment is made but the reg documents show the customer as the registered owner (Irl) / keeper (UK).

Uk to abolish tax disc, saves 7million Stg a year

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