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Uk to abolish tax disc, saves 7million Stg a year

2

Comments

  • #32
    blastman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,449 ✭✭✭blastman


    Ninap wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind just having one disc in the window (like in the UK at present); it's having to have at least three, plus parking discs and the like that is ridiculous. Takes up way too much windscreen space - it restricts visibility and looks terrible. The insurance disc is pointless - you could have got a 12 month one and stopped paying your direct debit, and the NCT one is equally pointless; just make it obligatory to produce evidence of valid NCT to obtain a tax disc.
    They tried that before. People just stopped paying their road tax, so the government decided it was better to have the money and a load of potentially unsafe cars.


  • #33
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    on the flip side, there was an opinion poll recently in Germany and folks were asked should income taxes+social charges (which are much higher than Ireland) should be reduced, and the majority said no.
    no doubt because most of those surveyed either arent working or pay the lower rate of tax... If you asked me that question here, I'd say leave the USC, PRSI, PAYE - lower rate as is & reduce the higher rate, they are the ones getting absolutely shafted, so that others dont have to...


  • #34
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Makes perfect sense really. They've no need to clutter up your windows with discs to prove you're taxed, insured or NCT/MOT'd as it's all on a database anyway.

    Also as we have seen with the theft of blank NCT discs, it's hardly difficult to defraud a paper based system.


  • #35
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    Just had a quick look at the UK tax bands.
    They use the CO2 system from 2001 onwards so there's different bands there. Highest band is £490 PER YEAR!

    For new cars bought in 2013, this rate doubles.

    For cars registered before 2001 there are 2 bands, < 1549 cc and 1549+, £140 and £225 respectively.....

    My god are we getting shafted.....

    See for yourselves: http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/new-vehicle-tax.aspx


  • #36
    alfreg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭alfreg


    guttenberg wrote: »
    If the car is older than 3 years old in Britain/4 in NI then it'll have two discs in the window, one for MOT one for tax.

    There is no MOT disk in Britain, just NI. All cars at present in Britain, regardless of age, just have one disk, the tax disk.


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  • #37
    bmwguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭bmwguy


    What can Anpr actually flag? Just tax?


  • #38
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Caliden wrote: »
    Just had a quick look at the UK tax bands.
    They use the CO2 system from 2001 onwards so there's different bands there. Highest band is £490 PER YEAR!

    For new cars bought in 2013, this rate doubles.

    For cars registered before 2001 there are 2 bands, < 1549 cc and 1549+, £140 and £225 respectively.....

    My god are we getting shafted.....

    See for yourselves: http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/new-vehicle-tax.aspx

    try comparing their Council Tax with our Property Tax and you'll see a different picture.


  • #39
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,602 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    corktina wrote: »
    try comparing their Council Tax with our Property Tax and you'll see a different picture.

    Comparisons with the UK for the most part are poor due to economys of scale. But there is no one here that can advocate our VRT system and our Road Tax system with 1811 Euro on a CC based vehicle.


    No one.


  • #40
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    economies of scale would make the gap even wider in the case of Council/property tax!


  • #41
    Yakuza
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    It would be a great thing if it came in here, fewer bits of paper on the window looks better. On a slight aside, I got an email yesterday that serves as my tax renewal (it stated I won't be getting a paper one). I do remember giving them my email address when renewing online last year, but I hadn't heard they'd started issuing renewals by email until it landed in my in-box.


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  • #42
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    OSI wrote: »
    In Ireland? Just tax and links to the insurance details you gave when renewing tax.

    In UK they can check everything from Tax, MOT and Insurance to whether the registered owner is banned from driving.

    It also flags if the owner has prior convictions and if they have a warrant for their arrest. If anyone ever watches the UK police shows on Sky you will see that cops can be just driving along and the ANPR will beeb and next thing they search a car belong to a person with priors for drug possession and next thing the driver is busted for a joint or something.

    I'd like to see the speed camera vans and Squad cars here equipped with ANPR to bust uninsured drivers and those with no NCT. The UK Motor Tax system is very fair and they get a hell of alot more in return for their Motor Tax than we do in terms of quality roads and good quality cars instead of the paddy misery spec cars we see here because of VRT.


  • #43
    TMC99
    Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭TMC99


    00833827 wrote: »
    to remove the tax disc's here, you would pretty much need the whole road network covered in a decent ANPR system like the UK or many other countries have - right now we only have a few squad cars with cameras - the cost of covering a road network the size of ours with relatively so few cars on it might prevent this from ever happening here - even thought the technology is increasingly becoming more affordable. I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

    I don't see why you would need any road network covered with cameras - today you have manual checkpoints which slows down traffic while checking. You would still have 'checkpoints' but just a camera on road side which would be more accurate and quicker - same as a speed check. You could put some permanent cameras on main roads like M50 or any of the motorways if required - but would be no different to the way they enforce it today, just quicker and as a result could be more frequent.


  • #44
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #45
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    What document proves the ownership then?


  • #46
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #47
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    bmwguy wrote: »
    What can Anpr actually flag? Just tax?

    Anything that's linked to its database.


  • #48
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    if I want to buy a car to own in the UK , how do I know how much tax is left ? :/


  • #49
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I understand if you buy from garage, you get an invoice.

    But what if you buy privately?


  • #50
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #51
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Indeed, an example would be a car bought on hire purchase. The HP company remains legal owner until full payment is made but the reg documents show the customer as the registered owner (Irl) / keeper (UK).


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  • #52
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Indeed, an example would be a car bought on hire purchase. The HP company remains legal owner until full payment is made but the reg documents show the customer as the registered owner (Irl) / keeper (UK).

    While I understand that's how it works, but I don't think it's right.
    There should be always the owner noted down in registration document, just in case for someone who is buying a vehicle to be able to check in reg. cert that he is actually buying a vehicle from the legal owner (as only the legal owner should be able to sell his vehicle).
    Or at least that's what makes sense to me.


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    if I want to buy a car to own in the UK , how do I know how much tax is left ? :/
    In the UK the previous owner can keep the disc and get the unused tax refunded, so with an electronic "disc" there would be none as the owner would transfer it to the next car.


  • #54
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    CiniO wrote: »
    While I understand that's how it works, but I don't think it's right.
    There should be always the owner noted down in registration document, just in case for someone who is buying a vehicle to be able to check in reg. cert that he is actually buying a vehicle from the legal owner (as only the legal owner should be able to sell his vehicle).
    Or at least that's what makes sense to me.

    I think that would be a good idea.


  • #55
    00833827
    Closed Accounts Posts: 405 ✭✭00833827


    TMC99 wrote: »
    I don't see why you would need any road network covered with cameras - today you have manual checkpoints which slows down traffic while checking. You would still have 'checkpoints' but just a camera on road side which would be more accurate and quicker - same as a speed check. You could put some permanent cameras on main roads like M50 or any of the motorways if required - but would be no different to the way they enforce it today, just quicker and as a result could be more frequent.

    If you are depending on roadside checks mainly to enforce it only, then i reckon you will have high avoidance - outside of Dublin area you are very unlucky to stumble across a checkpoint in rural Ireland - you would need a fair auld smattering to be any deterrent - like the UK

    https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=h&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=217547757041314517647.0004a03ad9fbe9f40a116

    Kinda high in the north, but the Scots aint having it at all!


  • #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    00833827 wrote: »
    If you are depending on roadside checks mainly to enforce it only, then i reckon you will have high avoidance - outside of Dublin area you are very unlucky to stumble across a checkpoint in rural Ireland - you would need a fair auld smattering to be any deterrent - like the UK

    https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=h&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=217547757041314517647.0004a03ad9fbe9f40a116

    Kinda high in the north, but the Scots aint having it at all!
    That map is very incomplete, I know the locations of a few and none of them are on that map!


  • #57
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Caliden wrote: »
    Just had a quick look at the UK tax bands.
    They use the CO2 system from 2001 onwards so there's different bands there. Highest band is £490 PER YEAR!

    For new cars bought in 2013, this rate doubles.

    For cars registered before 2001 there are 2 bands, < 1549 cc and 1549+, £140 and £225 respectively.....

    My god are we getting shafted.....

    See for yourselves: http://carfueldata.dft.gov.uk/new-vehicle-tax.aspx

    Comparing one specific area of Taxation in another system to your own system is pointless.

    While it may seem cheaper on the face of it, it probably would work out about the same when you take into account other deductions on your net income and your indirect taxes when you spend money.


  • #58
    00833827
    Closed Accounts Posts: 405 ✭✭00833827


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That map is very incomplete, I know the locations of a few and none of them are on that map!

    there you go so - loads of cameras needed and with fewer cars on the roads here in the whole country than in Manchester for example, just not worth it to be implemented - so you are stuck with your multitude of disk's i reckon.


  • #59
    BrensBenz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭BrensBenz


    While I applaud the perfect logic of this idea, I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen in the UK in the near future. See the endless and hysterical UK media controversy over a plastic bag charge; payments for breastfeeding; plain cigarette packs, etc. There appears to be an unwritten law in the UK that no change can be suggested without pressure groups being formed, petitions being produced, media blitzes, lobbying of MPs, etc. to resist the change.

    Many years ago, I got dragged into a debate "The Saxon and the Celt will never understand each other". The debate ended abruptly when a speaker produced reams of newspaper cuttings about.....pressure groups, petitions, media blitzes, lobbying of MPs, etc. because someone, somewhere, suggested that maybe, just maybe, there might be a possibility, sometime in the future of......changing the colour of their phone boxes! Thousands of people were instantly "appalled" at the prospect of non-red phone boxes. "Thin edge of the wedge"; "Earth will spin off its axis"; "We didn't fight two world wars for this", etc. Although not spoken, I think that the participants knew that the typical Celtic response would be something like "who the Hell cares?"

    "Get rid of tax discs? I'm appalled. It will promote Big Brother. Thousands of tax disc printers will be unemployed. How will I know that that driver has paid his tax?"

    By the way, I'm not Brit-bashing! Great bunch of lads! Besides, I have both Saxon and Celtic blood in me which I think explains why I can never get anything done!


  • #60
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Put the road tax on the insurance. If a car is insured, then it would be taxed. Insurance company collects the tax - no cost to Gov.

    Insurance company needs to take control of NCT system by checking that vehicle has one, and may demand retest if considered appropriate.

    Current NCT system is defective. 25% of four year old cars fail first test. Annual test is not working becase of long waiting time for an appoinment. There should be an on demand service, and a minimum validity of NCT of at least one year.


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  • #61
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,183 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    So, the uk chancellor is set to announce the scrapping of the tax disc in the uk this morning.
    With number plate recognition it's no longer needed.
    Seems fairly sensible to be honest as the excuse of the disc in the post is no longer valid now that the police/guards have access to the records directly anyhow.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518477/Death-tax-disc-You-wont-need-windscreen-pay.html?ico=news%5Eheadlines

    The disc being in the post isn't accepted in the UK anyway. If the new disc is not displayed within 1 week, a fine can follow whether it's in the post or in an envelope on the dashboard. As ever, enforcement is the problem in Ireland


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