Please gamble sensibly

Koptain Liverpool · 04-12-2013 11:00AM

I think that gambling should be much more strictly regulated. Yes sure for many people it's a harmless form of entertainment and for around 1-2% of gamblers a way of making money. But for many many people it's a big problem that impacts negatively not only on their lives but also on those of their families.

Gambling takes place in most other European countries but not to the extent that it does here. The smallest town in Ireland will have at least one bookie shop and in the towns and cities there are usually 2 or 3 on every street. Granted the availability of options online means that even without these shops people could still bet but I reckon there should be a limit on the number of bookies able to operate in every area.

04-12-2013 11:03AM

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

I think that gambling should be much more strictly regulated. Yes sure for many people it's a harmless form of entertainment and for around 1-2% of gamblers a way of making money. But for many many people it's a big problem that impacts negatively not only on their lives but also on those of their families.

Gambling takes place in most other European countries but not to the extent that it does here. The smallest town in Ireland will have at least one bookie shop and in the towns and cities there are usually 2 or 3 on every street. Granted the availability of options online means that even without these shops people could still bet but I reckon there should be a limit on the number of bookies able to operate in every area.

I think people should be allowed do as they please with their money and the government should stay out of it.

Matt_Trakker · 04-12-2013 11:03AM

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Imagine an ad that immediately dispersed whiskey?

Please, please someone make that happen.

sbsquarepants · 04-12-2013 11:12AM

Sulla Felix wrote: »

so we agree, they want as much of the punters money as possible without drawing down an undue amount of opprobrium. Good stuff.

Yes.
Now tell me what business doesn't. Everyone who sells you anything, wants you to buy as much of it as you possibly can.
Stop expecting the world to look out for you - look out for yourself!

Matt_Trakker · 04-12-2013 11:18AM

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

I think that gambling should be much more strictly regulated. Yes sure for many people it's a harmless form of entertainment and for around 1-2% of gamblers a way of making money. But for many many people it's a big problem that impacts negatively not only on their lives but also on those of their families.

Gambling takes place in most other European countries but not to the extent that it does here. The smallest town in Ireland will have at least one bookie shop and in the towns and cities there are usually 2 or 3 on every street. Granted the availability of options online means that even without these shops people could still bet but I reckon there should be a limit on the number of bookies able to operate in every area.

You don't actually live in Ireland do you?

I suppose you want a pure nanny state who would controls everything that we do, tell you what to wear, what to eat and what to think too?

Sure, gambling can lead to disaster, but so can a multitude of other things, krist, people can become addicted to parachute jumping, if you don't have the discipline to do any of the above, I've got a simple solution, don't fuqing do them. Why should we have to rely on the state to control them, nonsense, why can't grown ups just be grown ups anymore.... they need constant direction from d!cks in suits who mostly aren't even university educated.

But don't you dare impinge on my personal freedom to do exactly as I choose with the my own money.

sligoface · 04-12-2013 03:42PM

bigneacy wrote: »

I reckon you are wrong. If you are a regular gambler and you aren't betting 5 or 10 cent stakes, yet you are only down €200 your account will become restricted- you'll find it hard to place bets most of the time because automatic risk controls will restrict your ability to place likely to win bets. Purely because you are too successful for the company to profit off you. A bookie has no room for a successful client on their books, doesn't make financial sense.

This isn't a conspiracy theory by the way- I used to work in a bookies HQ. I never gamble.

Nonsense. They would never shut down or restrict an acct that is regularly used for small amounts as most punters won't beat the bookie long term, in fact those kind of accounts are their bread and butter. Especially if the acct is in a loss of 200. They would be more likely to restrict a punter who will wait for one event he really likes and bet the max and win.

My online acct had 800 in it in september, i got it up to 1500 making 30-50 euro bets by november, never got restricted. A few bad beats and im down to 1260 at the start of this month. So you see the bookie is much more likely to get their losses back by letting the regular small amount punter keep betting rather than restricting, because you cant stay hot forever, and most punters will increase their bets after a hot streak. The hot streak ends and their acct dwindles much faster than it was accumulating before the punter increased his bets. Then he panics and increases more to get back the losses and soon enough the profits are gone. No need to restrict a punter who doesn't bet large amounts in any case.

If you want to bet large amounts you can avoid restriction by spreading it around a few bookies, and if you are that kind of punter you might as well just go to vegas where they wont bat an eye at a large bet. Most people who like to bet really just do it for a bit of craic and buzz and yes some will end up doing it regularly cuz they get hooked, they should in that case just bet small amounts and never increase regardless of hot or cold streaks, that way they keep the buzz and minimize their risk, and can make their bankroll last, in other words 'gamble sensibly'. This type of player can enjoy gambling, and depending on their intelligence and the way the ball bounces, could be either a winner or loser in the term, but either way they won't be exposing the bookie to such risk that they are restricted. Why restrict someone who only makes small bets anyway? Why restrict any punter who is niot in profit?

I dunno whose worse, us gamblers who think we know it all, or the guys who make the tea in a bookies and think they're industry experts.

MadsL · 04-12-2013 05:07PM

jester77 wrote: »

OP, just pay the 10€ a month for Spotify and you won't be subjected to all that nonsense.

Or use Grooveshark and don't pay at all.

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

You don't actually live in Ireland do you?

As much as I disagree with his opinion, this fact does not invalidate his opinion.

BillyMitchel · 04-12-2013 05:20PM

Dicky Pride wrote: »

This country, and this government, is a slave to the Gambling industry. It got away with murder in the last two budgets, but for some reason, they seem to be immune to any kind of public outcry.

Two seconds before Man Utd V Spurs kicked off on Sunday, there was an ad for Bet365 "Bet in Play" trying to entice people to be before on the game. More and more approved accounts on Twitter are being approached by gambling companies to help them gain more customers.

At some point, like cigarettes and alcohol, it's going to have to stop.

Take ads on your mobile device for example...click it...it brings you right to the bet. Imagine an ad that immediately dispersed whiskey? Wouldn't be allowed would it?

People will laugh and joke about this, cause it's on After Hours, but I really believe that 2014 will be the year that Gambling will be fought, head on.

World Cup year?? Not a hope.

Glad it's something I've never got into. Probably once a year I do a football bet. Horrible what serious gambling does to people.

Mobile gambling has been huge for bookies but to see men on phones betting every 5 mins trying to chase their loss it's pretty shît to see.

preston johnny · 04-12-2013 05:59PM

I've got my first gamblers Anonymous meeting tomorrow. I rang them today to check the time.

It's ****ing ten to one.

UCDVet · 04-12-2013 09:25PM

Bookies don't care if you win or lose. They make money when you bet. When you win 50 euro it is because someone else lost 55 euro and the bookie keeps 5. As long as people are betting, they are winning.

bigneacy · 04-12-2013 11:27PM

sligoface wrote: »

Nonsense. They would never shut down or restrict an acct that is regularly used for small amounts as most punters won't beat the bookie long term, in fact those kind of accounts are their bread and butter. Especially if the acct is in a loss of 200. They would be more likely to restrict a punter who will wait for one event he really likes and bet the max and win.

My online acct had 800 in it in september, i got it up to 1500 making 30-50 euro bets by november, never got restricted. A few bad beats and im down to 1260 at the start of this month. So you see the bookie is much more likely to get their losses back by letting the regular small amount punter keep betting rather than restricting, because you cant stay hot forever, and most punters will increase their bets after a hot streak. The hot streak ends and their acct dwindles much faster than it was accumulating before the punter increased his bets. Then he panics and increases more to get back the losses and soon enough the profits are gone. No need to restrict a punter who doesn't bet large amounts in any case.

If you want to bet large amounts you can avoid restriction by spreading it around a few bookies, and if you are that kind of punter you might as well just go to vegas where they wont bat an eye at a large bet. Most people who like to bet really just do it for a bit of craic and buzz and yes some will end up doing it regularly cuz they get hooked, they should in that case just bet small amounts and never increase regardless of hot or cold streaks, that way they keep the buzz and minimize their risk, and can make their bankroll last, in other words 'gamble sensibly'. This type of player can enjoy gambling, and depending on their intelligence and the way the ball bounces, could be either a winner or loser in the term, but either way they won't be exposing the bookie to such risk that they are restricted. Why restrict someone who only makes small bets anyway? Why restrict any punter who is niot in profit?

I dunno whose worse, us gamblers who think we know it all, or the guys who make the tea in a bookies and think they're industry experts.

Ya I made the tea, you're bang on.

I never said they shut down accounts. And just because you are up in the last few months means diddly squat. The bookies play the long game- they analyse your betting history, they've no interest in how much you in September and how much you had in between and how much you have now. How much you deposit v how much you withdraw. Bottom line. Wins, losses. Doesn't matter. As long as you withdraw less than you deposit they'll let you keep going unchecked.

If you open an account today and win every wager from here to €1500 profit then withdraw, you better believe you'll have a hard time placing wagers.

The gamblers who spread their bets around several bookies aren't getting around the system- they have a particular style of betting and the bookies have a name for them "ARB" they are the most restricted of al. If your account reads ARB you'll have trouble getting more than €25 on any single event. See how much I learned from just making the tea in a bookies as you say?

But clearly you know best. Go on back to your wee fantasy that you're smarter than the paid professional sports traders whose sole job is to be more clever than you.

Ace2007 · 04-12-2013 11:42PM

sligoface wrote: »

Nonsense. They would never shut down or restrict an acct that is regularly used for small amounts as most punters won't beat the bookie long term, in fact those kind of accounts are their bread and butter. Especially if the acct is in a loss of 200. They would be more likely to restrict a punter who will wait for one event he really likes and bet the max and win.

I dunno whose worse, us gamblers who think we know it all, or the guys who make the tea in a bookies and think they're industry experts.

I think the guys who are the worse, are the ones like yourself who believe accounts don't get closed down, I know plenty of people whose accounts have been restricted - max bet is like €1 if your lucky, lets say your a winning punter and your pp account gets restricted - you go to boyles then that gets restricted, then bet365 - then you get accounts where the odds aren't as great. so you open an account under your sisters name and start again.

I don't agree with this, as many do say they will take every penny a losing punter wants to bet, but stops the winner punter - who would like to bet the same amount.

05-12-2013 12:53AM

bigneacy wrote: »

Ya I made the tea, you're bang on.

I never said they shut down accounts. And just because you are up in the last few months means diddly squat. The bookies play the long game- they analyse your betting history, they've no interest in how much you in September and how much you had in between and how much you have now. How much you deposit v how much you withdraw. Bottom line. Wins, losses. Doesn't matter. As long as you withdraw less than you deposit they'll let you keep going unchecked.

If you open an account today and win every wager from here to €1500 profit then withdraw, you better believe you'll have a hard time placing wagers.

The gamblers who spread their bets around several bookies aren't getting around the system- they have a particular style of betting and the bookies have a name for them "ARB" they are the most restricted of al. If your account reads ARB you'll have trouble getting more than €25 on any single event. See how much I learned from just making the tea in a bookies as you say?

But clearly you know best. Go on back to your wee fantasy that you're smarter than the paid professional sports traders whose sole job is to be more clever than you.

In fairness you stated that someone who is down around 200 euro over a number of years would be facing restrictions that's been rubbished by a few people and rubbished again by someone who is well up and facing no restrictions.

I know they restrict accounts but it's for big big time gamblers. A friend of my uncle gave up his job as a trader to gamble full time as he was making more money at it, he had 30k down anti post for Cheltenham last year for example. He has to use betfair mostly or accounts in family members names unless he goes into the shops as he can't get money on with an online bookie.

bigneacy · 05-12-2013 10:08AM

Layla Panicky Gin wrote: »

In fairness you stated that someone who is down around 200 euro over a number of years would be facing restrictions that's been rubbished by a few people and rubbished again by someone who is well up and facing no restrictions.

I know they restrict accounts but it's for big big time gamblers. A friend of my uncle gave up his job as a trader to gamble full time as he was making more money at it, he had 30k down anti post for Cheltenham last year for example. He has to use betfair mostly or accounts in family members names unless he goes into the shops as he can't get money on with an online bookie.

I stated that because it's reality. The bookies don't look at wins and losses- they look at deposits and withdrawals. If you are likely to take money off them they'll restrict you and not just big gamblers. There are some guys who as you say can't get a €1 on.

I know of some accounts that deposit 50,000 a day, withdraw barely anything and each of their bets are scrutinised. Don't get me wrong they treat these guys like royalty- dedicated agents to speak to him, his customer service is the board of directors and he gets 10% of all his wagers back in free bets (which he also loses). But don't think it's all fair and clear cut- the big bookies have a responsibility first and foremost to their shareholders and don't for a second think they'll think twice about restricting the €50 Saturday football gambler who wins often- they will and do.

Restrictions in place aren't just for big big gamblers I've seen some accounts whose average bet is around €10 get restricted to the point where the customer could no longer use it. Automatic risk controls determine the unwanted pattern of wagers v winners- no matter how low the stake. As i said before bookies don't have room for successful gamblers on their books.

seamus · 05-12-2013 10:40AM

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Bad gamblers are losers.

I actually laughed out loud at that.

Because every gambler thinks they're a great gambler.

How many people become successful millionaires through a gambling career in the local bookies? None (except for the odd freak cases). How many bookies become successful millionaires? Plenty.

The issue here is not that gambling is necessarily an "always lose" pursuit it's that the odds are consistently stacked in favour of the bookie. As mentioned above, bookies and similar all over the world, will restrict or ban people who are "too successful". I always find those shows about Vegas funny, because they keep an eye out for big winners. If you're always beating the house, they will kick you out and ban you. An absolute admission that "We really only want losers in here".
Bookies and casinos over here operate the same way, but they have to be more coy about it and pretend that they're nice businesses, interested in the gaming, not the money.

If you cut out the bookie, the potential be big consistent winner is there - like the stock market - but you do need to be good at it.

I'm referring of course here to games where you at least can stand a chance of consistently winning by knowing the information beforehand. Like motorsport or soccer. People who gamble on games of pure chance, like slot machines, and think they stand a chance of winning, are fncking morons.

Hoop66 · 05-12-2013 10:48AM

When I moved to Ireland in 2000 I opened a PP account with IR£20. I have never put any more money into it, and I reckon I average about €40 or 50 in withdrawals per week, mostly from in-running betting on Rugby.

I don't think I've been restricted, but I would be interested to find out if the "network problems" I've sometimes had when trying to get time-sensitive bets on were specific to me...

bigneacy · 05-12-2013 11:06AM

Hoop66 wrote: »

When I moved to Ireland in 2000 I opened a PP account with IR£20. I have never put any more money into it, and I reckon I average about €40 or 50 in withdrawals per week, mostly from in-running betting on Rugby.

I don't think I've been restricted, but I would be interested to find out if the "network problems" I've sometimes had when trying to get time-sensitive bets on were specific to me...

They are.

You'll never be told you are restricted. Next time you try to put a decent sized bet on and experience network problems, ring the call centre. 10/1 you'll be put on hold. That means you are restricted the trader for your particular market selection will assess your bet in terms of viability, risk to the company and betting patterns on your selection, you will usually be allowed your bet sometime you'll offered less- I.e you want €100 ew on the favourite in the next race at towcester the trader might deem that too risky and you'll instead be offered 25 win only. Or online you might experience network issues meaning no bet for you.

05-12-2013 11:23AM

bigneacy wrote: »

I stated that because it's reality. The bookies don't look at wins and losses- they look at deposits and withdrawals. If you are likely to take money off them they'll restrict you and not just big gamblers. There are some guys who as you say can't get a €1 on.

I know of some accounts that deposit 50,000 a day, withdraw barely anything and each of their bets are scrutinised. Don't get me wrong they treat these guys like royalty- dedicated agents to speak to him, his customer service is the board of directors and he gets 10% of all his wagers back in free bets (which he also loses). But don't think it's all fair and clear cut- the big bookies have a responsibility first and foremost to their shareholders and don't for a second think they'll think twice about restricting the €50 Saturday football gambler who wins often- they will and do.

Restrictions in place aren't just for big big gamblers I've seen some accounts whose average bet is around €10 get restricted to the point where the customer could no longer use it. Automatic risk controls determine the unwanted pattern of wagers v winners- no matter how low the stake. As i said before bookies don't have room for successful gamblers on their books.

Fair enough but I can only speak for myself and over the last 5 years I have been up almost all the time and only down a couple of 100 euro in the last year and I've never had any restriction placed on my account so I think your point about someone being down or up a few 100 euro and getting restricted isn't true.

Actually looking back over my betting spreadsheet there, I would actually still be up as far as my online account is concerned and I have withdrawn more than I have put in. The few hundred down is mostly from on course betting.

Mint Aero · 05-12-2013 11:32AM

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
You'll be totes legeballs boyo!

Please gamble sensibly

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