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World Class Maternity services, YEAH RIGHT!

135

Comments

  • #62
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    The HSE response to Killing this woman? ""The HSE confirms that lessons have been learned from the tragic outcome."
    If lessons were learned then why did they kill Savita two years later?
    "They" (the HSE) "killed" them. Right. Not hysterical at all.
    You should write for the Herald.


  • #63
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    MadsL wrote: »
    The Medical industry kills thousand if not millions each year. They kill people through malpractice, wrong meds, wrong treatment, wrong data, lack of basic hygiene and failure to invest in quality control.

    On top of that 106,000 people a year die from improperly tested medicines.

    Yet Healthcare and Pharmaceutical costs keep rising.

    No-one in Healthcare wants to talk about how many people they killed that day. Welcome to Healthcare's dirty little secret.

    People die. Not everyone can be kept alive.
    Wrong data, wrong meds, wrong treatment ---- people "forget" to tell their doctors / nurses basic facts, the decide things aren't important, they decide to come off their meds because they know better than the professionals, they take their meds at the wrong times or in the wrong way, ........
    Its not always the healthcare system's fault.


  • #64
    ruthloss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭ruthloss


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    "They" (the HSE) "killed" them. Right. Not hysterical at all.
    You should write for the Herald.


    I don't agree , I' m inclined to blame employees of the HSE for their deaths.

    Therefore the HSE is responsible.

    Your comment about "writing for the Herald" is gratuitous and unfunny.


  • #65
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    "They" (the HSE) "killed" them. Right. Not hysterical at all.
    You should write for the Herald.

    Yes , they killed them, their negligence,disregard, and ineptitude directly led to their deaths.
    As for the snide personalised Ad hominem, its says more about you inability to rebut those facts than I ever could!


  • #66
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    notnumber wrote: »
    I dont think anyone is suggesting they killed her and who knows she may have a similar outcome in India.

    Actually three separate reports indicate quite clearly, as did Dr Peter Boylan's testimony at her inquest, that Savita would be alive today if she had received the appropriate medical treatment.


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  • #67
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    OP obviously has another agenda. Using deaths of women to promote such an agenda is a little sick tbh but this is AH.


  • #68
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    jank wrote: »
    OP obviously has another agenda. Using deaths of women to promote such an agenda is a little sick tbh but this is AH.

    Morag is a well respected poster, I would imagine her only "agenda" is to ensure the health system is one that we can all feel confident in.

    I've had two children in the Irish maternity system, I had a gap of 12 years between my children and the difference is the care was shocking. My first went really well, second time around things were awful. I don't blame the staff who were doing their best in a bad situation but lack of adequate staff meant most of the promises on the hospital charter didn't happen for me. Health wise I was okay and left hospital with a healthy baby but its easy to see how things can be missed in an overworked, under resourced environment with tragic results.

    Its interesting that we have laws in this country that a business can be charged with corporate manslaughter if their shortcomings lead to a death...why are governments departments exempt from this?


  • #69
    Fukuyama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Ireland does have a world class healthcare system.

    It's one of the best in Europe and far exceeds anything you'll find (if you're a non-millionaire) in Africa, Asia or South America.

    Try getting decent healthcare in the US. :pac:


  • #70
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Saying "They killed them" is just oversimplifying and implying intent.
    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    People die. Not everyone can be kept alive.
    Wrong data, wrong meds, wrong treatment ---- people "forget" to tell their doctors / nurses basic facts, the decide things aren't important, they decide to come off their meds because they know better than the professionals, they take their meds at the wrong times or in the wrong way, ........
    Its not always the healthcare system's fault.
    Agreed. The scapegoating is atrocious.


  • #71
    kc90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭kc90


    osarusan wrote: »
    Already commented on it here:

    MadsL, are you saying it was the drug that killed him, not the leukemia?

    I seen that, but thanks. That was an individual case. And from your own question, you know that it doesn't answer mine.


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  • #72
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Morag is a well respected poster, I would imagine her only "agenda" is to ensure the health system is one that we can all feel confident in.

    Sorry but this is wrong. The agenda here is to throw mud at the maternity system in Ireland hoping some of it sticks. She is using the deaths of women to promote the narrative of "sure us Irish can't do anything right". She offers no comparison to other maternity departments in the world many of which are much inferior to the Irish system nor any real solutions to resourcing problems. We all know why she is doing this (the clue is repeating the term 'world class') and as I said using the deaths of women to kick a political football is wrong in my opinion no matter what your view is.


  • #73
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    jank wrote: »
    eviltwin wrote: »
    Morag is a well respected poster, I would imagine her only "agenda" is to ensure the health system is one that we can all feel confident in. /QUOTE]

    Sorry but this is wrong. The agenda here is to throw mud at the maternity system in Ireland hoping some of it sticks. She is using the deaths of women to promote the narrative of "sure us Irish can't do anything right". She offers no comparison to other maternity departments in the world many of which are much inferior to the Irish system nor any real solutions to resourcing problems. We all know why she is doing this (the clue is repeating the term 'world class') and as I said using the deaths of women to kick a political football is wrong in my opinion no matter what your view is.


    So because we don't have the same death rates in our maternity hospital as say a third world country we should just shut up and count ourselves lucky we don't live there? Sorry but I don't buy that. I'm not expecting a perfect service, things will happen, mistakes will be made etc but its not an unreasonable expectation that you will not leave hospital in a coffin or that you will be treated with respect or given the care or attention you need. The sad thing is the money needed to give the system a boost is there but seems to be mismanaged and not put where its needed.


  • #74
    cuckoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭cuckoo


    eviltwin wrote: »

    Its interesting that we have laws in this country that a business can be charged with corporate manslaughter if their shortcomings lead to a death...why are governments departments exempt from this?

    Or the members of the boards of the various hospitals and agencies - some interesting points made in this article about plans to investigate doctors, nurses and midwives for their actions surrounding the death of Savita Halappanavar in Galway but none to look at the corporate governance of the hospital.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/medical-matters-dysfunctional-culture-is-prime-reason-for-continued-failure-of-hse-1.1606761


  • #75
    mitosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭mitosis


    So how come no one has posted with a nice table to support their point of view.

    The OP has done nothing to support her hysterical claims, not have the rebutters to support their counterclaims.

    Oh, look, I found one

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/apr/12/maternal-mortality-rates-millennium-development-goals

    It does not support the OP, surprisingly :rolleyes:


  • #76
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    eviltwin wrote: »


    So because we don't have the same death rates in our maternity hospital as say a third world country we should just shut up and count ourselves lucky we don't live there? Sorry but I don't buy that. I'm not expecting a perfect service, things will happen, mistakes will be made etc but its not an unreasonable expectation that you will not leave hospital in a coffin or that you will be treated with respect or given the care or attention you need. The sad thing is the money needed to give the system a boost is there but seems to be mismanaged and not put where its needed.

    Not even third world, we compare favourably with the first world. Better rates than the US, Japan, Denmark and France. Instead we have to engage in hysterical claims that use the death of women to kick a political football for another agenda.


  • #77
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    eviltwin wrote: »
    jank wrote: »

    The sad thing is the money needed to give the system a boost is there but seems to be mismanaged and not put where its needed.


    No...it was trimmed from the hopsitals' budgets and given to bail out the banks and NAMA deveopers.

    If foreign companies payed thier taxes we might have a bit more money to spend on our healthcare system as well.


  • #78
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    They rarely mention the good deeds carried out daily to try balance it out though.

    My wife had a very difficult first birth and she/they might have even died. No doubt she would have in an earlier era. The staff were amazing though.

    I think you're right about rags sensationalizing the bad and not highlighting the incredible skill and dedication in the health system, especially under swingeing conditions but we should also always strive to be aware of any mistakes or bad practice.


  • #79
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    mitosis wrote: »
    So how come no one has posted with a nice table to support their point of view.

    The OP has done nothing to support her hysterical claims, not have the rebutters to support their counterclaims.

    Oh, look, I found one

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/apr/12/maternal-mortality-rates-millennium-development-goals

    It does not support the OP, surprisingly :rolleyes:

    Oh Look I found one too!
    It doesn't support yours though since the figures for Ireland included in yours were inaccurate.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rate-of-maternal-deaths-here-is-double-official-figure-28939773.html


  • #80
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    tree_tall wrote: »
    my dad died thirteen years ago due to medical negligence so I know a little about this area

    their is no bigger clique in this country than that of the doctor profession , not only will they not compete against each other on price when it comes to the GP sector , they will not squeal on each other either when it comes to malpractice , as such its extremely rare for a doctor to be struck off due having made a fatal mistake , that consultant in the north east who removed womens wombs , didn't even loose his pension

    Do you have to get legal representation from the UK if you are suing the medical profession over here?


  • #81
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,450 ✭✭✭Morag


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    Oh Look I found one too!
    It doesn't support yours though since the figures for Ireland included in yours were inaccurate.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rate-of-maternal-deaths-here-is-double-official-figure-28939773.html

    Thanks for that.

    Jayus you'd not want to be busy getting shít done, haven't been back to the thread as I've been busy.


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  • #82
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    Oh Look I found one too!
    It doesn't support yours though since the figures for Ireland included in yours were inaccurate.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rate-of-maternal-deaths-here-is-double-official-figure-28939773.html

    Oh look! Another "source" from the poxy Indo...that paragon of virtue and non-biased reporting.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,321 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Do you have to get legal representation from the UK if you are suing the medical profession over here?

    You might be confusing that with getting medical reports from UK, not legal respresentation.


  • #84
    ruthloss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭ruthloss


    Time and time again I see an OP attacked personally on here, words like 'hysterical' and 'agenda' bandied around like confetti, I find it hard to respect the opinion of anyone who sinks to that level of debate.


  • #85
    Gyalist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

    Fix your quote or you'll be guilty of friendly fire.


  • #86
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Oh look! Another "source" from the poxy Indo...that paragon of virtue and non-biased reporting.

    OH look another "I didn't,t bother to actually read link" post!
    Because if you did you would see that the source of the evidence is MDE Ireland.
    Here's another link to same evidence for you to ignore
    http://www.mdeireland.com/


  • #87
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    chopper6 wrote: »

    No...it was trimmed from the hopsitals' budgets and given to bail out the banks and NAMA deveopers.

    If foreign companies payed thier taxes we might have a bit more money to spend on our healthcare system as well.

    What a load of absolute rubbish!
    So now Google and Nama developers are responsible for medical negligence?


  • #88
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    OH look another "I didn't,t bother to actually read link" post!
    Because if you did you would see that the source of the evidence is MDE Ireland.
    Here's another link to same evidence for you to ignore
    http://www.mdeireland.com/


    But YOU posted a link to the Indo...the lazy man's way of garnering "facts".


  • #89
    mitosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭mitosis


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    Oh Look I found one too!
    It doesn't support yours though since the figures for Ireland included in yours were inaccurate.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rate-of-maternal-deaths-here-is-double-official-figure-28939773.html


    There's no figures shown there. Even if it is double, it is still among the best in the world. Even if it was treble, it is still among the best.


  • #90
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »
    What a load of absolute rubbish!
    So now Google and Nama developers are responsible for medical negligence?



    I was responding to the assertaion that there is no money in the health service...as you know,the public health system is paid for by the exchequer...if staff levels are cut,[pay is cut and morale is low there's going to be a knock-on effect in services.

    Of course you don't remember the scandal of junior doctors being forced to work up to 100 hours per week with minimal sleep or rest but don't let that get in the way of your hysterical witchunt.

    The fact that google et all are not paying thier way and billions of public money has been diverted to NAMA developers and bankers is a telling lesson in priorities.


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  • #91
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    eviltwin wrote:
    So because we don't have the same death rates in our maternity hospital as say a third world country we should just shut up and count ourselves lucky we don't live there?
    I don't think anyone's saying that. Any such tragedy needs to be acknowledged and discussed and investigated, and there should be consequences for those individuals who are accountable.

    But framing isolated incidents as the way things are in general, as comparable to a frontline health service (I emphasise frontline because it seems certain that there are broad issues with the administration side of things here) in a basket-case country, focusing on the fact that these patients were foreign (as if there was a deliberate lack of care because of this) and implying the whole lot of the HSE decided to kill them... what good is that to anyone whatsoever? That's why people are using terms like hysteria, agenda and hyperbole.


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