Repentance

The right way to do it is RIGHT NOW

Geomy wrote: »

It must be a powerful change in consciousness that makes a person repent and change their life over.
A Christian life doesn't suit the majority. ..

Yes I agree, and the Christian way of life isn't easy. Not by a long shot. It really is fighting the good fight. A struggle between the body & the spirit. Staying on the straight & narrow.

I agree that it is a 'change their life over'. The way I understand repentance is to feel genuine sorrow for the sin, ask God's forgiveness, ask for the covering of the holy Spirit to give me a pure heart, and the tough part....not to repeat the same mistake.

I would understand the act of repentance pointless, if I were to go on and do the exact same sin again, tomorrow, next week, whenever. The trick is to recognize it, ask forgiveness, and not repeat it.

Geomy wrote: »

I know but what about people who have so called imoral compulsions, like sex before marriage, breaking some of the ten
commandments on a daily basis. ..
Lusting, coveting.....

It's almost impossible not to find a good looking woman attractive or admire the neighbours new car, fantasize about having one yourself, even momentarily. ...

You're all at it day in day out. ..

Well for those that have sex before marriage, IF it bothers them, maybe they should stop. If it bothers them that much. Breaking some of the 10 commandments, ya thats a difficult one.

But it was never supposed to be plain sailing.

We need to be conscience of what come out of our mouths, and where our thoughts are taking us. I too get intrusive thoughs sometimes, out of NO WHERE, and I recognise them, and have a chat with the man above about them.

It's about keeping our eye on the ball ALL the time. Keeping our eye on the Lord in other words. This and only this is the priority. It can be done, while getting on with life at the same time. But its hard. I personally need to keep myself in check throughout the day. EVERY DAY.

When I get angry or frustrated and have a mind to string someone up, I automatically know these feelings are not from God. He didn't give us a bashful, fearful, scared or angry spirit.


You can look at the neighbours new car, and think of the payments he's making on it. Or look at his wife, and think 'I'd like one of them' but to begrudge it to someone, thats a naughty one. We as Christians aren't really supposed to be bothered about material things. New cars, etc. I would often pass a big house, and admire it. But do I wants it's mortgage? Do I want to spend all day just moping its floors? ah, no. For every positive there is a negative. To the man with the gorgeous wife, he might look like he has it all. But is this wife God fearing? For what good is one without the other?

martinedwards wrote: »

Repentance is considering your actions and feeling regret for past wrongs.

Actually, I’m not convinced that that quite captures it.

“Repentance”, when it turns up in the New Testament - which it does a lot - is an English translation of the Greek word metanoia.

Metanoia, in turn, comes from the Greek prefix meta-, signifying change, transformation, permutation or substitution, and the Greek word nous, meaning “mind”. So it means something like a change of mind.

But not just any old change of mind. “I think I’ll take the strawberry flavour ice-cream after all” is not a metanoia. Nor is “I wish I hadn’t eaten so much ice-cream”. Meta= indicates a very profound, fundamental, transformative change. And nous is not just your mind in the sense of your current opinions or your current intention; it refers to your understanding; your intelligence; your apprehension of your experiences and observations of the world. So metanoia refers to a profound change in the way you see the world, and in how you understand your place in it; a complete re-ordering of what you think is most real, and most important.

“Repentance”, obviously, doesn’t quite capture this. “Repentance”, to us, suggests sorrow or regret or self-blame. Metanoia may well involve sorrow or regret - at the wasted way you have lived up to now, at what you failed to understand, at the opportunities you missed. But sorrow is not going to be the dominant theme; when you finally understand and accept something that you have missed up to now, any regret you feel that it has taken you so long is going to be eclipsed by the joy and confidence you feel in the possibilities opened up to you by what you have come to see. So metanoia is predominantly a positive and joyful thing, and I think the English word “repentance” doesn’t really convey that.

Is deathbed metanoia possible? Well, in the Christian view metanoia is an outworking of the grace of God and, to God, nothing is impossible.

But such a profound change in us does not, typically, happen in an instant, or even in an hour or a day. The Twelve spent years in the more or less constant company of Jesus, witnessing his life, receiving his teaching, and trying to be open to what he had to say. And it’s fairly clear that their metanoia took time. As late as the night of Jesus’ arrest, some of them were still arguing about which of them is the greatest, which I think is a clear pointer that they either haven’t fully understood, or haven’t fully accepted, what Jesus has been teaching them. And if it took them so long to experience metanoia, why should we expect it in an instant? I think metanoia is born of long experience and long reflection; you can easily spend most of your life undergoing metanoia.

antiskeptic wrote: »

To add.

In my own case, that which lead to the moment of my salvation wasn't repentance (whether turning away from the immoral, pointless life I was leading or undergoing a moral change of mind about the life I was leading - whatever about my ability to cease and desist from said life). Rather, it was a profound sense that I was trapped in a prison of misery and hopelessness and that there was absolutely no way I was going to get out of it.

That which brought me to my knees one night wasn't regret, but despair.

The next morning I woke up and all was different. I knew everything (and that meant everything that could ever be, up to and including what happened after I died) was "going to be okay". Everything..


Profound repentence came later, perhaps 6 months later when, one evening, I had cause to reflect back on and consider all that I had done wrong in my life up to that point. It was then I got to see the fuller extent of the effect of my actions both on others and on myself and a switch went off in my head which evermore changed the way I view my actions and the actions of others. That time of confession (for I was writing out a list of all I could remember having done wrong, reflecting sometimes, scribbling furiously other times) wasn't about making me feel bad; rather the point seemed to involve searing into my mind, the facts about the ugliness of sin - as well as giving me the opportunity to purge the deeply suppressed guilt and shame that must attach to and is the consequence of, sin.


Although I regularly turn away from that view in order to sin, sometimes grossly, oft times easily, the change that happened then is still with me - it's like a door passed through once through which I can never return back through (in the sense of viewing sin differently) whatever about trying to clamber back through the keyhole.

-

I don't know if this is always the sequence of salvation, it probably isn't. Safe to say that one shouldn't rely on any formula in the hope of having God dance on puppet strings.

when you mention formula, are you refering to the Graham formula?

Geomy wrote: »

Im not sure whether there's a God or not but I feel a powerful connection with nature....
All I can see in Christianity is it's based on man's relationship with humanity rather than everything else. ...

What's the extent of your experience of Christianity?

What Bible Study or Prayer group have you experienced?
What churches have you attended?

Geomy wrote: »

I just feel more at peace when out walking the rocky roads, hill walking etc
It heightens sensations and I feel very vibrant...
To be away from it all, the churches are man made. ..
The wilderness is shaped by nature...

Christian here, and nature has a profound effect on me. It really does take ones breath away at times. I also feel more at peace when experiencing it. I agree also, that a church is just a church when it is just a place of ritual. A relationship with God is a whole different ballgame though, and just like I love my wife and our companionship, the community aspect of sharing time with fellow Christians is very uplifting, but at times frustrating (What personal relationship isn't I suppose). As Paul said though, "...Love NEVER fails." Kinship is a beautiful thing, and no man is an island as they say. Its the people that make a church. Its the communing together with ones brethren, to build up each other in communion with God. Unfortunately, many mainstream church gatherings are more a ritual than a community event. Never do I forget though, that while all these uplifting aspects etc are very important, its the truth I am there for. Its about my kinship with Christ, and what we do for him as his disciples. These days, there are many that seek to be entertained, for want of a better term. Its like a reaction to years of sombre and boring ritual. While the other side seems to want to make it as sombre and boring as it can to fight against this. I'm a middle ground man. We should never forget why we gather together, but Joy should be the over-riding feeling in our gatherings. There is a place for sombre reflection, for repentance and even sadness, but the hope and joy in the Lord should be the all conquering force IMO.

Geomy wrote: »

I think Christians should worry about the state of our natural world just as much as their relationship with their fellow man....

I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

We were basically given a divine mandate to take care of this beautiful planet of his creation in the beginning though:

Genesis 1

“Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.


Unfortunately, some people get carried away with the created, and worship IT, rather than the creator who gave it to us.

Geomy wrote: »

That's what's wrong, man shouldn't have dominion over anything.

Look at all the damage man has done to this beautiful planet, all because of the holy book gave him permission to divide and conquer. ..

With all due respect, you really need to educate yourself before you start making the all too common misrepresentative accusations against the 'holy book' tbh.

Man has indeed corrupted himself, as well as the planet, but thats what rebellion against a loving creator does for you. Choosing to follow selfish paths etc.

I think it's all gone pinky ponky along the way somewhere. ...

Yes, that would be when mankind rebelled against their creator.

The Native Americans have a better mandate, they thank the spirit of the beast for giving itself up for food...

Mandate? From who? What spirit is this, and do the beasts, 'give themselves up' for food? Or, like everywhere else, are they not hunted in some cases and slaughtered to be eaten etc in all cases? All seems a bit like shallow, sentimental, new agey nonsense to me.

As a Christian, we are called to respect the life of the animal and not eat its life-blood, as the blood identifies with its life. A life taken as sustenance for us. We do not thank the animal, who does not lay its life out freely for us, but thank God, the creator, the giver of life.

I fear you are carried away with creation, to the point where you think it is greater than you are, when the truth is, you are a creature, divinely unique, in that you were created in the image of God your creator. Yes, mankind cut itself off from God, and corrupted himself and indeed the planet he inherited, but God in his great love has bought us back, and indeed promises another inheritance. A NEW Earth, for this old one will pass away as prophesied. The question is, do you care enough to seek your creator in earnest and honestly, and ponder these things deeper than the sentimental practices of the likes of polynesian folklore? There are many people who believe it arrogant (or at least say they think its arrogant) to think themselves special. But just as I know I was special to my earthly father, I know the special place God has for me as my heavenly Father. No other creature has been created in his image.