World Class Maternity services, YEAH RIGHT!

Morag · 04-12-2013 12:31AM #1

Dhara Kivlehan, Savita Halappanavar & Bimbo Onanuga when will we start talking about migrant women dying in our hospitals due to medical staff ignoring and neglecting them?

http://www.thejournal.ie/dhara-kivlehan-hse-pregnancy-1204009-Dec2013/

Seriously WTF, I know our hospitals esp maternity ones have not enough staff and they are run off their feet, but in this day and age no one should die cos
no one checked the test results or checked the charts.

Over flow happens and often means patients are less checked on, but it should not be a bloody death sentence.

Femme_Fatale · 04-12-2013 12:33AM

I see from that rag article/comments this tragedy being used as a political football, a stick to beat the public sector with, the usual.

Classy. But not surprising.

Fr_Dougal · 04-12-2013 12:36AM

Morag wrote: »

Dhara Kivlehan, Savita Halappanavar & Bimbo Onanuga when will we start talking about migrant women dying in our hospitals due to medical staff ignoring and neglecting them?

http://www.thejournal.ie/dhara-kivlehan-hse-pregnancy-1204009-Dec2013/

Seriously WTF, I know our hospitals esp maternity ones have not enough staff and they are run off their feet, but in this day and age no one should die cos
no one checked the test results or checked the charts.

Over flow happens and often means patients are less checked on, but it should not be a bloody death sentence.

3 out of how many hundred thousand? TheJournal.ie is a rag, on the same level as the Daily Mail.

Our maternity hospitals may be under pressure, but they still provide excellent care and it IS world class.

For Forks Sake · 04-12-2013 12:40AM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

3 out of how many hundred thousand? TheJournal.ie is a rag, on the same level as the Daily Mail.
.

Lower even. Takes some doing, but the cretinous nonsense passed off as content there is beyond a joke.

As for those who spend their days commenting ill-informed bullsh1t on there all day, the less said the better.

Karl Stein · 04-12-2013 12:41AM

Isn't Ireland one of the best places in the world to have a baby as regards medical outcomes?

Morag · 04-12-2013 12:41AM

Here's a different link so

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/hse-to-pay-800-000-to-family-of-woman-who-died-after-birth-1.1615552

"
HSE to pay €800,000 to family of woman who died after birth
Ms Justice Mary Irvine hits out at HSE again for delay in admitting fault
"

World class my arse.

Femme_Fatale · 04-12-2013 12:41AM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Lower even. Takes some doing, but the cretinous nonsense passed off as content there is beyond a joke.

As for those who spend their days commenting ill-informed bullsh1t on there all day, the less said the better.

Lunatics running asylum. Seriously, some of them seem to have hopped off the sanity boat long ago...

Morag · 04-12-2013 12:45AM

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Isn't Ireland one of the best places in the world to have a baby as regards medical outcomes?

If your medical outcomes only have two critea a live woman and a live child and you don't record properly the number of maternal deaths, then yes.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=22882

Eight maternal deaths took place at maternity units around the country last year, seven more than the figure recorded by the Central Statistics Office (CSO), it has emerged.

hansfrei · 04-12-2013 12:49AM

Agenda lead thread has agenda.

MadsL · 04-12-2013 12:55AM

The Medical industry kills thousand if not millions each year. They kill people through malpractice, wrong meds, wrong treatment, wrong data, lack of basic hygiene and failure to invest in quality control.

On top of that 106,000 people a year die from improperly tested medicines.

Yet Healthcare and Pharmaceutical costs keep rising.

No-one in Healthcare wants to talk about how many people they killed that day. Welcome to Healthcare's dirty little secret.

suicide_circus · 04-12-2013 12:56AM

Burn down the maternity wards!!

dxhound2005 · 04-12-2013 12:58AM

MadsL wrote: »

The Medical industry kills thousand if not millions each year. They kill people through malpractice, wrong meds, wrong treatment, wrong data, lack of basic hygiene and failure to invest in quality control.

On top of that 106,000 people a year die from improperly tested medicines.

Yet Healthcare and Pharmaceutical costs keep rising.

No-one in Healthcare wants to talk about how many people they killed that day. Welcome to Healthcare's dirty little secret.

Be a bit more specific.

04-12-2013 12:59AM

Morag wrote: »

Here's a different link so

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/hse-to-pay-800-000-to-family-of-woman-who-died-after-birth-1.1615552

"
HSE to pay €800,000 to family of woman who died after birth
Ms Justice Mary Irvine hits out at HSE again for delay in admitting fault
"

World class my arse.

.

Officer Eddie: (reading Steve Sax's license) Well well, Steve Sax, from New York City.
Officer Lou: I heard some guy got killed in New York City and they never solved the case. But you wouldn't know anything about that now, would you, Steve?(Lou and Eddie laugh)
Steve Sax: But there are hundreds of unsolved murders in New York City.
Officer Lou: You don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you, Saxxy Boy?

dan1895 · 04-12-2013 01:00AM

Morag wrote: »

If your medical outcomes only have two critea a live woman and a live child and you don't record properly the number of maternal deaths, then yes.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=22882

Can you provide us with the stats of what you would consider a world class country in this area?

As said above, I thought Ireland was one of the best places for having a baby in.

04-12-2013 01:00AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Be a bit more specific.

It's hundreds of thousands for sure, hard to know if it's in the millions because of how much of the world doesn't access proper medical services regularly.

Femme_Fatale · 04-12-2013 01:01AM

MadsL wrote: »

The Medical industry kills thousand if not millions each year. They kill people through malpractice, wrong meds, wrong treatment, wrong data, lack of basic hygiene and failure to invest in quality control.

On top of that 106,000 people a year die from improperly tested medicines.

Yet Healthcare and Pharmaceutical costs keep rising.

No-one in Healthcare wants to talk about how many people they killed that day. Welcome to Healthcare's dirty little secret.

Yeh I'm gonna need a bit more evidence than that. "Welcome to healthcare's dirty little secret" might sound intriguing, but it's not actually proving anything.

Plus, it's not a secret if you've just talked about it.

MadsL · 04-12-2013 01:01AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Be a bit more specific.

If they published accurate statistics we would know. The ICD-10 project globally should unify statistics and help compare rates, but best guess, preventable medical error kills 98,000 Americans a year.
http://www.justice.org/cps/rde/justice/hs.xsl/8677.htm

dxhound2005 · 04-12-2013 01:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's hundreds of thousands for sure, hard to know if it's in the millions because of how much of the world doesn't access proper medical services regularly.

It sounds like they are better off staying away from the "proper" medical services.

The_Morrigan · 04-12-2013 01:04AM

The problem with stories like this is that you only hear about the bad ones. You won't have any newspaper with a headline of maternity ward successfully delivers 20 babies today, they will only report on the tragic events of a death.
Same with every industry it is only the scandal that is reported not the day to day business.

MadsL · 04-12-2013 01:05AM

Proper investment in state of the art medical technology could save 100,000 lives a year.

They said patients treated in hospitals that ranked highest in use of health information technology to manage patient records and physician notes were 15 percent less likely to die compared with patients in hospitals that ranked lower.

"If these results were to hold for all hospitals in the United States, computerizing notes and records might have the potential to save 100,000 lives annually,"

Imagine being 15% more likely to die because your hospital uses paper records. :eek:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 04-12-2013 01:05AM

'preventable' is an unbelievably loaded term...

MadsL · 04-12-2013 01:07AM

The_Morrigan wrote: »

The problem with stories like this is that you only hear about the bad ones. You won't have any newspaper with a headline of maternity ward successfully delivers 20 babies today, they will only report on the tragic events of a death.
Same with every industry it is only the scandal that is reported not the day to day business.

I promise you there are a plenty of unreported negligent deaths, and the older you are the less likely it will be reported.

Hospitals kill people that they could have easily not killed every single day.

04-12-2013 01:07AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It sounds like they are better off staying away from the "proper" medical services.

Well it's swings and roundabouts for a lot of it. Most people need antibiotics a few times between the ages of 20 and 50, then move onto statins and the like. Another 20 years later and suddenly the time in hospital increases and the chance for some numbnuts to kill them increases massively.
Personally when I have a choice I'll always avoid hospital. If I have to go I'll get a taxi rather than an ambulance, faster, cheaper and at least someone will pay attention.

Morag · 04-12-2013 01:13AM

dan1895 wrote: »

Can you provide us with the stats of what you would consider a world class country in this area?

As said above, I thought Ireland was one of the best places for having a baby in.

Really? tell that one to the survivors of symphysiotomy or of Dr Neary.

A country which has revised it's policies in the last 50 years to start with.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/geographic-lottery-to-access-maternity-care-245939.html

Pregnant women are being subjected to a “geographic lottery” as a direct result of “outdated, patently unsafe” standards in Ireland’s maternity service.

“What is also of grave concern is the number of failures at national level identified in the report, including timely access to maternity services, inadequate staffing levels for safe care, a maternity care model that hasn’t been revised in 59 years and a lack of accountability and governance.

“The 2007 ‘safer childbirth’ document recommends midwife-to-woman staffing levels are never to exceed 1:28 for low risk women and 1:25 for high- risk women, in order to ensure women are safely looked after and not left alone in labour.

“Irish ratios drastically exceed these recommendations and were seen to be contributing factors into the deaths of Tania McCabe, Bimbo Onanuga, and now Savita Halappanavar.

MadsL · 04-12-2013 01:13AM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

'preventable' is an unbelievably loaded term...

A friend of mine had treatment for hairy cell leukaemia at Tallagh Hosp. - during his first round of treatment he was given a drug that caused all his skin to de-laminate. He suffered terribly but was eventually give the all-clear to go home. A year and half later his remission reversed and he had to go back in.

They gave him the same drug again. His skin fell off, again.

Tell me that wasn't preventable either through pharmacy IT programs or reading his medical notes beyond a cursory glance. Had his adverse reaction been different to the drug he could have died.

Cause of death? Chalk one up for hairy cell leukaemia, none for medical incompetence.

Loaded? Not a bit of it, medical incompetence is unbelievably tolerated.

04-12-2013 01:14AM

Morag wrote: »

Really? tell that one to the survivors of symphysiotomy or of Dr Neary.]

Don't let elderly relatives go to England, Shipman might get them.

dxhound2005 · 04-12-2013 01:14AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well it's swings and roundabouts for a lot of it. Most people need antibiotics a few times between the ages of 20 and 50, then move onto statins and the like. Another 20 years later and suddenly the time in hospital increases and the chance for some numbnuts to kill them increases massively.
Personally when I have a choice I'll always avoid hospital. If I have to go I'll get a taxi rather than an ambulance, faster, cheaper and at least someone will pay attention.

The good news is that people here are living 10 years longer on average than in 1960. Despite the death wish behaviour of many with their diet, lifestyle and alcohol and tobacco consumption.

Last week on Liveline there were complaints that pregnant women and hospital staff looking after them were being forced to go outside the hospital grounds to have a smoke.

The_Morrigan · 04-12-2013 01:15AM

MadsL wrote: »

I promise you there are a plenty of unreported negligent deaths, and the older you are the less likely it will be reported.

Hospitals kill people that they could have easily not killed every single day.

I think that comes under the age old "complications due to age or underlying conditions".

I'm not disagreeing with you about the reporting I think it's skewed. The newspapers report on topical emotional and often politically driven issues that will get a reaction and cause a debate. They rarely mention the good deeds carried out daily to try balance it out though.

Morag · 04-12-2013 01:16AM

http://www.mdeireland.com/pub/MDE_report_w_2012.pdf

The Confidential Maternal Death Inquiry noted this - they found that between 2009 and 2011, roughly 25% of maternities in Ireland were women of non-Irish nationality, but 40% of all maternal deaths during that period occurred in women who were not born in Ireland.

dxhound2005 · 04-12-2013 01:21AM

From the 2011 Census. The number living here born abroad 17% of the overall population. The number of non Irish Nationals living here 12% of the overall population. Was that disctinction taken into account?

04-12-2013 01:21AM

Morag wrote: »

http://www.mdeireland.com/pub/MDE_report_w_2012.pdf

Got stats on public/private?

World Class Maternity services, YEAH RIGHT!

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