What scenario would be enough for you to protest?

whupdedo · 28-11-2013 11:34PM

I would go protesting, but I'm just so fupin busy

Rewind one · 28-11-2013 11:35PM

Ireland isnt a ''real'' country,we are a nation of back stabbers we all know it,we are our own worst enemy and the people on this thread that criticize protesters are in a dreamland.

We could learn a thing or two from the french.

MajorMax · 28-11-2013 11:36PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

These threads make me so sad Almost 100 years ago, the people of this country rose up to have their voices heard, and succeeded. If the same scenario existed today, those who joined the revolution would be a "fringe minority" and the majority of the people would have used words like "hippies" to describe them. :mad:

Actually the number of people directly involved in the war of independence was tiny, they WERE a fringe minority, there were only 15,000 people in the IRA between 1919 and 1921, of whom no more than 3,000 were active at any one time. There were more Irish people in the RIC, Black & Tans, Auxiliaries and the British Army at that time

Irish people have a long history of not getting involved. I intend to carry on this proud tradition. However I would strongly consider protesting if the damned shinners ever get a sniff of power

Rewind one · 28-11-2013 11:37PM

MajorMax wrote: »

Actually the number of people directly involved in the war of independence was tiny, they WERE a fringe minority, there were only 15,000 people in the IRA between 1919 and 1921, of whom no more than 3,000 were active at any one time. There were more Irish people in the RIC, Black & Tans, Auxiliaries and the British Army at that time

Irish people have a long history of not getting involved. I intend to carry on this proud tradition. However I would strongly consider protesting if the damned shinners ever get a sniff of power

I believe he was speaking of the lockout and public service strikes etc.

hungry hippo 4 · 28-11-2013 11:38PM

MajorMax wrote: »

Actually the number of people directly involved in the war of independence was tiny, they WERE a fringe minority, there were only 15,000 people in the IRA between 1919 and 1921, of whom no more than 3,000 were active at any one time. There were more Irish people in the RIC, Black & Tans, Auxiliaries and the British Army at that time

Irish people have a long history of not getting involved. I intend to carry on this proud tradition. However I would strongly consider protesting if the damned shinners ever get a sniff of power

I intend to carry on this tradition. You take pride in being a fcuking coward. It was probably your great grandmother spitting at collins.

hatrickpatrick · 28-11-2013 11:40PM

MajorMax wrote: »

Actually the number of people directly involved in the war of independence was tiny, they WERE a fringe minority, there were only 15,000 people in the IRA between 1919 and 1921, of whom no more than 3,000 were active at any one time. There were more Irish people in the RIC, Black & Tans, Auxiliaries and the British Army at that time

Irish people have a long history of not getting involved. I intend to carry on this proud tradition. However I would strongly consider protesting if the damned shinners ever get a sniff of power

15,000 is still a fair amount although I take your point - but did Average Joe regard them as "wasters" and "hippies"?

KyussBishop · 28-11-2013 11:47PM

I would go out and protest, if it were with a group I thought were informed enough about the crisis and its available solutions, that they could teach others and build momentum from the protest, into a bigger protest movement that people actually learn from and want to stay involved with based on what they learn; the more I learn about this myself, the more I want to do that, just don't think there is really an outlet for this here in Ireland (and am unsure of my ability to impart what I've learned, to others).

I think there's more than enough wrong with how countries/economies/societies across Europe are being run, with much better available solutions (which I believe are being intentionally avoided for political reasons), that if people were taught this with the right narrative, that they would actually care and would intrinsically want to become involved - anything less than this (an intrinsic desire to become and stay involved - driven by learning all that is wrong with how things are run, and the solutions), anything less will just lead to any protest movement fizzling out, in my view.

The problem is, right now a lot of people just don't care, and are blocked from learning or caring, by a lot of the FUD that is spread about how things are economically (a lot of that FUD successfully turns the public on themselves, in a way that is actually self-destructive, e.g. public vs private bullshít).
I don't know how to make people actually give a toss when most seemed apathetic at best, and many seem so determined not to care, that they'll try to drag others down for the temerity of giving a shít and learning/discussing solutions.

NuckingFacker · 28-11-2013 11:47PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

15,000 is still a fair amount although I take your point - but did Average Joe regard them as "wasters" and "hippies"?

Probably. Bord no moaners built a dump near us - at the time, a handful of people actually protested and picketed the site(and were derided for being "gobshytes"). I now have a pain in my face listening to the same detractors whinging about "how the fcuk did they ever get allowed to build that smelly kip???" Jesus wept.

renegademaster · 28-11-2013 11:50PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Soooo then they don't work at all then. Right.

The Spanish have protested and although they haven't overthrown the government in power, they have won relatively big victories. Protests can indeed work if they're a regular thing.

the spanish and portuguese protests are going so well world leaders have been quoted as saying pretty much that too much democracratic rights are being afforded to the people and letting them protest has to be legislated against!! what breaks my heart here is we haven't even begun to start fighting back proper and that's even after all the many small and medium random protest that have happened here since recession hit!! people just gave up before even trying!!

whupdedo · 28-11-2013 11:50PM

Seachmall wrote: »

If the Gay Marriage referendum doesn't pass next year that'd be enough for me to protest.

It'd be evidence enough for me that democracy is a stupid system.

Usually fair, but often frustratingly stupid.

So, should we take away people's right to vote on changes to the constitution or just the changes you agree with?

caustic 1 · 28-11-2013 11:53PM

"WHAT DO WE WANT...WHEN DO WE WANT IT ...NOW"

renegademaster · 28-11-2013 11:53PM

Riamfada wrote: »

I dont see the point in protesting. It only serves to get the TDs to go to work in a different entrance. I wouldnt say me spending a day outside Leinster House would even register on a politicians radar. If it did accomplish anything I would be there with bells on.

As stated above, historically, more often than not violent revolution is the only means of change. Protest is pointless.

it wouldn't take many dedicated individuals to block all entrances to the dail. it's a big building but not that fcuking big we should never even try

MajorMax · 28-11-2013 11:53PM

renegademaster wrote: »

if i had a euro for evertime i heard this old chestnut!! i get sick in my fcuking mouth everytime i see this as someones reply on these issues. i've been verbally and seriously physically assaulted on the street during occupy by so many of my own people, and 99% of the time they were drunk out of their mind ignoramuses. it was an eye opener and i will never ever ever be able to look at society in an sweet innocent way ever again. i've seen the best and the absolute worst in average joe soaps these last few years, the latter so much that it made the solidarity shown amongst the Turkish people as they were being poisoned/beaten to death while protesting on their streets seem like a wet dream to me. Remember when their "leader" thought he was being smart be going on tv and telling all the women to go get their kids or husbands off the streets before the army and police go on their next rampage, i cried tears of joy that each and every single one of them left their houses immediately and formed human chains of mothers around all protestors across the whole country!! not one police or army knew how to deal with what the brave brave women had taken upon themselves to implement because it was the right thing to do. such carry on (solidarity!!) is only a pipe dream in this country

Fella, I'm sorry to have to be the one top tell you this, the Occupy movement was a complete joke, too many different agendas. Congratulations on wasting your time and public (my) money.

If you were verbally or physically assaulted, maybe that should have opened your eyes that the people weren't supporting you, in fact they were violently opposed to your aims.
If the average Joe soap or "ignorami" (Plural form of ignoramus) failed to live up to your expectations, then maybe your expectations are too high.
in addition, the 2013 Turkish riots were in opposition to planned urban developments for Istanbul, it escalated to include a protest on the recent ban on kissing in public and a curb on the sale of alcohol, what's that got to do with the pathetic occupy movement?

renegademaster · 28-11-2013 11:55PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Meh, not much point. If everything goes to plan I'll be in a position to leave the country

another "i'm alright so fcuk you jack"

hungry hippo 4 · 28-11-2013 11:56PM

People are simply afraid to protest. We all know we are being bent over and rode but we choose to remain in the safety of our little lives. Being alienated by society is far worse than just getting on and paying these peoples debts. Society really has gone to ****. What kind of quality of life is that.

whupdedo · 28-11-2013 11:58PM

renegademaster wrote: »

another "i'm alright so fcuk you jack"

I'm alright too so.....you know the rest

MajorMax · 28-11-2013 11:58PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

15,000 is still a fair amount although I take your point - but did Average Joe regard them as "wasters" and "hippies"?

No I have to admit that the support for an independent Ireland was almost universal among the people as can be seen in the General election of 1918. But it's much harder to estimate what support the actual fighters had in the war of Independence as it brought great suffering to our people

Seachmall · 29-11-2013 12:00AM

renegademaster wrote: »

the gay marraige referendum is your red line regarding going out protesting?!? no other issue that has been dropped on the masses would be even half a reason to protest in your view?? serious question

Yup.

whupdedo wrote: »

So, should we take away people's right to vote on changes to the constitution or just the changes you agree with?

If there's a legitimate reason for people to be divided over an issue then let the masses decide. But when one side is void of any reason or legitimate argument then they shouldn't be dictating the lives of others.

renegademaster · 29-11-2013 12:04AM

Rewind one wrote: »

Ireland isnt a ''real'' country,we are a nation of back stabbers we all know it,we are our own worst enemy and the people on this thread that criticize protesters are in a dreamland.

We could learn a thing or two from the french.

this is the scene in Brittany lately, huge protests at a factory i worked in over there last year, they're shutting the factory down next march even though most of north brittany has worked there at one point or another over the last 30+ years!! solid people over there, fight on their feet and not dying a slow agonisingly embarrassing death genuflecting to the elite!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYt_vFIAoCI

i'd recomend ye watch the whole video from start to finish and realise what real men and women do when being unfairly treated

i guarantee ye won't believe your eyes at some of the exceptional lengths they go to be listened to and at their cost as well as the states!!

porsche959 · 29-11-2013 12:04AM

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Protests are pointless
Only violent revolution has proven successful throughout history

Force is the midwife.

AndonHandon · 29-11-2013 12:05AM

I'd protest if my right to protest was at risk of being rescinded.

SCOOP 64 · 29-11-2013 12:06AM

No point in protest in Ireland , we are all against each other,
private sector,public worker,unemployed,pensioners,now esb workers, we all have the "as long as I'm alright jack attitude" ,look after number one.

wp_rathead · 29-11-2013 12:07AM

Protests with goals and objectives i have taken part in and will take part in again in future - Savita incident, carers rates, blind pension i have taken part in..

However you get these vague mass protests about "enough is enough" and "government lockout" and you have to ask yourself what they hoping to achieve?

A Primal Nut · 29-11-2013 12:08AM

veryangryman wrote: »

Let's assume we have the day off. The free time with not cloud in the sky. And you are angry enough at the powers that be.

Would you still find a good reason not to protest and consider it pointless? If yes ok but why.

I see a lot of protest threads and minor ish protests but they are always anbeaten down by the lethargic. I am at the conclusion that some will just not protest even if it affected them badly

The problem is that Irish complain about so many different things it's impossible to know what people are protesting about so there is no united front.

Private sector employees want to lower taxes by reducing public sector salaries.
Public sector employees want higher salaries.
Socialists want to spend, spend, spend because government money grows on trees.
Business owners/employers want lower tax.
About half the population want abortion to be legal.
The other half don't.
Probably the same with gay marriage.

It ends up being a battle to see who can protest louder. Ultimately it's better to decide these things through the democratic channels that we have, for better or worse.

shruikan2553 · 29-11-2013 12:09AM

renegademaster wrote: »

another "i'm alright so fcuk you jack"

Do you have a better idea? My options are to either focus on college for the next year and a half, get a good grade from it and follow the recommendations of others to just leave while I have the chance before I end up with something tying me to Ireland.

My other option is to try and protest in a country where they achieve nothing. Occupy managed nothing, the anti abortion people achieved nothing and they actually managed a reasonable amount of people by busing them into dublin after mass.

porsche959 · 29-11-2013 12:09AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Sometimes I think id enjoy a good riot! Might loot myself a few nice things for christmas as well!

Seriously though, I'm not sure what it would take to get me out on the streets. I think if our government tried to pass laws turn our country into some sort of malign totalitarian state or started to curtail our rights to freedom of speech or that kind of thing then id be out on the streets. But so far the recession hasn't affected me too badly so I don't really have anything to be angry about. But tbh I couldn't give a toss about the LPT or water charges or any of that crap that people seem to get so fussed about.

If I was an American living in America I would definitely be angry about the levels of surveillance by government organisations on the general public. Doesn't seem to bother any Americans I know though.

I think it's bizarre that you think America has less freedom of expression and more surveillance than Europe. Everything I've read suggests the oppposite. The UK is obviously the model for the globalist/NWO surveillance state, and we, who are basically a pimple on the arse of the UK, are not far behind. Ever heard of GCHQ?

SEK · 29-11-2013 12:10AM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

God im getting sick of hearing this crap.

These people who label the Irish people idiots because they're not protesting or rioting really need to grow up.

The Greeks protested a lot and look how great it made things for them. Oh wait...

Its amazing that some people only associate protests with Greece that,s the power media propaganda can do , Greece got some debt written down at least.

While the media mainly focused on protests in Greece the last few years, they barely showed or mentioned the protests in Iceland, because there was protests in Iceland they at least got a say via referendum on whether the public approved of bailing out banks, which they didn,t unlike Ireland bailing out the banks with giving the public a say, as a result in the longer term Ireland is in more debt due to bailing out banks which Iceland isn,t and in Enda Kenny own words the night the so called prom note deal last february ( if it weren,t for the bailout of banks Irish public debt levels would be lower then Germany )

renegademaster · 29-11-2013 12:13AM

MajorMax wrote: »

Fella, I'm sorry to have to be the one top tell you this, the Occupy movement was a complete joke, too many different agendas. Congratulations on wasting your time and public (my) money.

If you were verbally or physically assaulted, maybe that should have opened your eyes that the people weren't supporting you, in fact they were violently opposed to your aims.
If the average Joe soap or "ignorami" (Plural form of ignoramus) failed to live up to your expectations, then maybe your expectations are too high.
in addition, the 2013 Turkish riots were in opposition to planned urban developments for Istanbul, it escalated to include a protest on the recent ban on kissing in public and a curb on the sale of alcohol, what's that got to do with the pathetic occupy movement?

ok, so first off i will never again listen to the type of people who chose to leave a perfectly good night out on the piss in town and walk up to the camp with the sole purpose of physically assaulting a "dirty ****ing hippy" and some insisted on being physically beaten away multiple times and believe me when i tell you when you face that level of ignorance down in fairly serious situations that could have been fatal if truth be told you would be of the same mind frame as me right now pal.

second, Gezi park was the straw that broke the camels back but it wasn't the only reason the whole country went ape. sure most turks didn't know about gezi oark the day before it all kicked off.

NuckingFacker · 29-11-2013 12:15AM

wprathead wrote: »

Protests with goals and objectives i have taken part in and will take part in again in future - Savita incident, carers rates, blind pension i have taken part in..

However you get these vague mass protests about "enough is enough" and "government lockout" and you have to ask yourself what they hoping to achieve?

Did you win? And if not, are you still protesting? What was the reaction to your protests? I watched an anti-Israel protest being battered into submission in Jervis street shopping center by the gardai(en-masse) and kinda went "jasus, don't protest, you'll get battered if you really try to". They went so hard on the protesters I actually tried to step in and defend them as it was just rough out of proportion - I narrowly avoided getting arrested for my efforts and decided the odds were seriously stacked against protesters in Ireland. More heavy-mob gardai out of bl00dy nowhere than I even knew there were..

MajorMax · 29-11-2013 12:15AM

Rewind one wrote: »

I believe he was speaking of the lockout and public service strikes etc.

Don't get me started on that. Jim Larkin and the Union workers lost, they didn't achieve a single one of their aims.
They appealed to the workers of Britain to join them in a strike and that appeal was firmly rejected, leaving the ITGWU slowly swinging in the wind. The lockout set the union movement back years, Jim larkin ran to America, the union movement completely collapsed. It took 'til 1919 before the Unions had the same level of membership and support that it did in 1913

What scenario would be enough for you to protest?

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