Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 06:06PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25127707

If a big banner saying "Fenian Bastards" is a €21,000 fine then this must be about 1c. UEFA are an absolute farce.

premierstone · 27-11-2013 06:38PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25127707

If a big banner saying "Fenian Bastards" is a €21,000 fine then this must be about 1c. UEFA are an absolute farce.

They haven't much to be doing in fairness :rolleyes:

I am pie · 27-11-2013 06:43PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25127707

If a big banner saying "Fenian Bastards" is a €21,000 fine then this must be about 1c. UEFA are an absolute farce.

Peter Lawell disagrees with you anyway. He came out fairly strongly in the article that you linked, rightly claiming that Celtic are not a political organisation and that he doesn't want these banners at the club.

Lennonist · 27-11-2013 06:47PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25127707

If a big banner saying "Fenian Bastards" is a €21,000 fine then this must be about 1c. UEFA are an absolute farce.

While I agree with the sentiment of the banner, the GB should have displayed it at a domestic game because it's a Scottish law that they are protesting and UEFA have a rule against political statements being displayed in Euro games. Saying that, did Barcelona get in trouble for the "Catalonia is not Spain" banner which was displayed in a CL game v Real Madrid a couple of years back I believe? There has to be consistency in these matters.

I am pie · 27-11-2013 06:48PM

For me, Celtic need to look at the youth player development, they have a decent sized catchment area and should look to be the elite club for player development in scotland, Ireland, north and south and even the english border regions. They should be looking to attract players, as I am sure they are, from whatever religion or creed and develop them. Need to invest heavily in the youth infrastructure, health and nutrition of young players, invest in technique above physicality. I believe Celtic's dominance over the domestic league should afford them an opportunity to develop young players rather than look to bring in players. The club needs to establish it's playing style from top to bottom, and do it bottom up if you like. While Rangers are struggling, (they need to do the same thing, only more urgently!) the opportunity is there to cement the reputation as a really good place for a player to go and learn their game.

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 06:49PM

I am pie wrote: »

Peter Lawell disagrees with you anyway. He came out fairly strongly in the article that you linked, rightly claiming that Celtic are not a political organisation and that he doesn't want these banners at the club.

Many Celtic fans don't want Lawell at the club. I'm not about to be lectured on the heritage and reputation of Celtic Football Club by a man who doesn't see fit to pay an honest wage to staff or purchase footballers worthy of the jersey.

€21,000 fine incoming. Could have put that money toward a 17 year old centre half from Mozambique and a winger from Timbuktu :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lennonist wrote: »

While I agree with the sentiment of the banner, the GB should have displayed it at a domestic game because it's a Scottish law that they are protesting and UEFA have a rule against political statements being displayed in Euro games. Saying that, did Barcelona get in trouble for the "Catalonia is not Spain" banner which was displayed in a CL game v Real Madrid a couple of years back I believe? There has to be consistency in these matters.

Champions League is the biggest stage we play on, ergo the banner has greatest effect. The commotion UEFA & Celtic are going to cause over it only promotes and emphasises the intended message. Pay the fine and move on, UEFA are a joke.

I guess the board won't be exploiting this tifo for marketing purposes anyway :pac:

I am pie · 27-11-2013 06:52PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

Most sensible Celtic fans don't want Lawell at the club. I'm not about to be lectured on the heritage and reputation of Celtic Football Club by a man who doesn't see fit to pay an honest wage to staff or purchase footballers worthy of the jersey.

€21,000 fine incoming. Could have put that money toward a 17 year old centre half from Mozambique and a winger from Timbuktu :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Champions League is the biggest stage we play on, ergo the banner has greatest effect. The commotion UEFA & Celtic are going to cause over it only promotes and emphasises the intended message. Pay the fine and move on, UEFA are a joke.

I doubt anyone is about to lecture you about anything, the CEO gave his view, I am merely stating it's different to yours, and the same as UEFAs.

I remember when UEFA were not a joke when they were handing out fan awards to Celtic....

Lennonist · 27-11-2013 06:52PM

I am pie wrote: »

For me, Celtic need to look at the youth player development, they have a decent sized catchment area and should look to be the elite club for player development in scotland, Ireland, north and south and even the english border regions. They should be looking to attract players, as I am sure they are, from whatever religion or creed and develop them. Need to invest heavily in the youth infrastructure, health and nutrition of young players, invest in technique above physicality. I believe Celtic's dominance over the domestic league should afford them an opportunity to develop young players rather than look to bring in players. The club needs to establish it's playing style from top to bottom, and do it bottom up if you like. While Rangers are struggling, (they need to do the same thing, only more urgently!) the opportunity is there to cement the reputation as a really good place for a player to go and learn their game.

Would agree with all that. Should also invest a bit more of the money the club is making with transfers and via the CL participation back into building the team in tandem with an approach like this as well.

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 06:54PM

I am pie wrote: »

I remember when UEFA were not a joke when they were handing out fan awards to Celtic....

Lovely straw man argument there.

I am pie · 27-11-2013 06:59PM

Lennonist wrote: »

Would agree with all that. Should also invest a bit more of the money the club is making with transfers and via the CL participation back into building the team in tandem with an approach like this as well.

Certainly, but they need to have the same strength in the footballing identity if you like as the club has with it's own identity and roots. Needs to be a clear and obvious style of football implemented bottom to top, so players that come in should be of a certain style or have certain attributes.

Not necessarily a Celtic fan, although I like to see them do well in Europe, I believe that rather than facing a problem the club currently face an opportunity to develop a really world class player development program which will have long term benefit. There unusually dominant domestic position affords an opportunity which you would hope the club takes.

Not gone on the banners, believe Lawell is correct. Celtic is a sports club first and foremost. Politics should stay outside of the stadium.

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:00PM

I am pie wrote: »

Politics should stay outside of the stadium.

Politics were emblazoned across football jerseys up and down the country a fortnight ago. What gives?

I am pie · 27-11-2013 07:01PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

Lovely straw man argument there.

It was just a comment, not an argument. Not really interested in an argument.

My opinion would be that Lawell is correct, Celtic is a fantastic sporting institution, it should be open to all. Militancy doesn't belong in the ground.

I wouldn't be fussed on arguing the point though, just my opinion.

premierstone · 27-11-2013 07:03PM

I am pie wrote: »

Peter Lawell disagrees with you anyway. He came out fairly strongly in the article that you linked, rightly claiming that Celtic are not a political organisation and that he doesn't want these banners at the club.

Antifa161 wrote: »

Many Celtic fans don't want Lawell at the club. I'm not about to be lectured on the heritage and reputation of Celtic Football Club by a man who doesn't see fit to pay an honest wage to staff or purchase footballers worthy of the jersey.

To be fair Lawell is obliged to make a statement of that ilk or he would just be cuting off his nose to spite his face, whether he agrees with teh sentiment of the banners is irrelevant he has to be seen by the authorities to be condemning it.

It a storm in a tea cup anyway, if thats the worst they can throw at us fair enough, pay the insignificant fine and move on.

I am pie · 27-11-2013 07:03PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

Politics were emblazoned across football jerseys up and down the country a fortnight ago. What gives?

Again, I suspect your looking for an argument here. I don't represent the SFA or anyone else and certainly don't have any interest in what does or doesn't go on the shirts. I do respect Celtic as an institution but would feel more comfortable if a small minority were less militant and exclusive. Personal opinion.

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:03PM

I am pie wrote: »

My opinion would be that Lawell is correct, Celtic is a fantastic sporting institution, it should be open to all. Militancy doesn't belong in the ground.

Do you genuinely believe that the message of the banner expressed any feeling of exclusion? Because I think it's quite clearly the entire opposite.

Bobby Sands died on hunger strike, probably the least militant political expression possible.

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:04PM

I am pie wrote: »

Again, I suspect your looking for an argument here. I don't represent the SFA or anyone else and certainly don't have any interest in what does or doesn't go on the shirts. I do respect Celtic as an institution but would feel more comfortable if a small minority were less militant and exclusive. Personal opinion.

I'm looking for a discussion, it's a discussion board; if you're not keen on it then don't post. It's not a soap box upon which you can broadcast your opinion and not expect anybody to debate it. I'm responding to what you've said, not the SFA.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 27-11-2013 07:06PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

We should not have to have an artificial domestic challenge, borne of financial doping and cheating in order to push us. People seem to be forgetting that had they not cheated, the SPL would have been by far and away a 1 horse race anyway.

You did read the official report that said there was no unfair advantage to Rangers on the park. But say something often enough and people believe you this garbage is right up there with the black and red socks nonsense
I really love how you believe the SPL would have been a one horse race

I am pie · 27-11-2013 07:07PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

I'm looking for a discussion, it's a discussion board; if you're not keen on it then don't post. It's not a soap box upon which you can broadcast your opinion and not expect anybody to debate it. I'm responding to what you've said, not the SFA.

I'll post whatever is on my mind thanks. You are welcome to debate and respond as you see fit, I'll respond as I see fit.

As I think I mentioned, I am more interested in the opportunity Celtic have as a football club right now than what politics are reflected in side the ground, interesting that you are spoiling for a fight (which you won't get) around Irish politics.

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:11PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

You did read the official report that said there was no unfair advantage to Rangers on the park. But say something often enough and people believe you this garbage is right up there with the black and red socks nonsense
I really love how you believe the SPL would have been a one horse race

lol yes the report that said Rangers did cheat but it didn't give them an on field advantage. That signing countless players they should not have been able to afford did not give them an advantage. Right.

I am pie wrote: »

I'll post whatever is on my mind thanks. You are welcome to debate and respond as you see fit, I'll respond as I see fit.

Nice one, that's what I was encouraging.

As I think I mentioned, I am more interested in the opportunity Celtic have as a football club right now than what politics are reflected in side the ground, interesting that you are spoiling for a fight (which you won't get) around Irish politics.

Feel free to discuss the football, just don't bring up topics you're going to back out of, it's cowardly and immature.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 27-11-2013 07:18PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

lol yes the report that said Rangers did cheat but it didn't give them an on field advantage. That signing countless players they should not have been able to afford did not give them an unfair advantage

Right it was a totally independent tribunal that had Lawyers for Celtic working for the SFA
And they still came to the conclusion they did so whether you like it or not that was a final decision the SFA and Celtic could have appealed it but didn't for me that says it all

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:21PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Right it was a totally independent tribunal that had Lawyers for Celtic working for the SFA
And they still came to the conclusion they did so whether you like it or not that was a final decision the SFA and Celtic could have appealed it but didn't for me that says it all

The findings of the report were satisfactory for anyone wanting to make a claim for Rangers' cheating. You will not find a single football fan (outwith your mob) who would tell you that a club being able to buy players they wouldn't honestly have afforded does not give them an on-field advantage. The judgement delivered by the report was bizarre and in complete contrast the facts it presented.

I am pie · 27-11-2013 07:25PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

lol yes the report that said Rangers did cheat but it didn't give them an on field advantage. That signing countless players they should not have been able to afford did not give them an advantage. Right.

Nice one, that's what I was encouraging.

Feel free to discuss the football, just don't bring up topics you're going to back out of, it's cowardly and immature.

You are not a mod, albeit you seem to think you are.

I don't have anything more to add to your comments re: my comments. I certain won't be rising to your cheap jibes.

I came looking for a chat about Celtic on the pitch, you had nothing to offer.

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:33PM

I am pie wrote: »

I came looking for a chat about Celtic on the pitch, you had nothing to offer.

Then perhaps your first post should have been about that, rather than the banner.

Anyway this is clearly a pointless endevour since rather than respond with any sort of maturity you just label every reply "looking for a fight", "cheap jibes" etc rather than explain yourself. Don't approach topics then back out as soon as you're challenged, that's not what these message boards are for.

Dempsey · 27-11-2013 07:38PM

Celtic do attract alot of good young players, the problem is that they arent trusted with enough first team gametime to bridge the gap between the youth setup & senior level. There isnt enough patience by management or the fans for players to become consistent at senior level. Its a catch 22 situation between not being good enough for a regular first team place & needing gametime to develop in a good enough player and the best way is to loan them out but this does not happen enough and certainly not at the stage of their careers where they need this to happen. It usually happens when the player is stagnating and by then, its too late.

You only have to look at how Charlie Mulgrew became a first team regular to see that Celtic are falling down big time when its time to transition players to the first team setup. James Forrest would have been another wasted talent only for Lennon was reserve team coach even now, he's not a nailed on starter and he's 22!

Lennon also makes wholesale changes for games like Morton and some matches leading into important UCL games then bangs on about how he cant trust his bench when they dont click. SPFL opposition hear Celtic are making wholesale changes and it adds to their already brimming motivation to frustrate the life out of the team and catch us on the break or through set pieces. Getting wholesale changes to click rarely will happen for one match in a blue moon. Lennon has alot still to learn about pre match preparation and playing matches every 3-4 days but in time I think he will as he gets exposed to it more.

I remember reading that Jorge Cadete talked with Lennon about becoming a strikers coach at the club. Either get him, if he's good enough, or hire Henrik Larsson at whatever cost because our composure, movement, final ball & finishing are in dire need of work. Lennon (DM), Mjallby (CB), Parker (CM) & McGrain (RB) know nothing about being a striker or dont have any coaching perspective in this regard and its showing. Getting Danny Grain to 1v1 coach the likes of Amido Balde will only go so far.

In short, Celtic need to improve their expertise on the football & business side (already said enough about how the board failed in the previous transfer window) and the culture of the club toward player development if they want to increase their chances of successfully developing players. There are many clubs that we can look to learn from and we should spend the rest of this season trying to win the double whilst getting things in place for next season.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 27-11-2013 07:39PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

The findings of the report were satisfactory for anyone wanting to make a claim for Rangers' cheating. You will not find a single football fan (outwith your mob) who would tell you that a club being able to buy players they wouldn't honestly have afforded does not give them an on-field advantage. The judgement delivered by the report was bizarre and in complete contrast the facts it presented.

Anyone can make a claim for cheating yes you are right but the fact is the judgement didn't suit many who had us hung drawn and quartered before the verdict was given so it's hardly a surprise those seem people didn't like it when it came.
But hey ho we could go on like this for months in fact I have done it all on here before so I reckon it's pointless going over it all again.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 27-11-2013 07:42PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Celtic do attract alot of good young players, the problem is that they arent trusted with enough first team gametime to bridge the gap between the youth setup & senior level. There isnt enough patience by management or the fans for players to become consistent at senior level. Its a catch 22 situation between not being good enough for a regular first team place & needing gametime to develop in a good enough player and the best way is to loan them out but this does not happen enough and certainly not at the stage of their careers where they need this to happen. It usually happens when the player is stagnating and by then, its too late.

You only have to look at how Charlie Mulgrew became a first team regular to see that Celtic are falling down big time when its time to transition players to the first team setup. James Forrest would have been another wasted talent only for Lennon was reserve team coach even now, he's not a nailed on starter and he's 22!

Lennon also makes wholesale changes for games like Morton and some matches leading into important UCL games then bangs on about how he cant trust his bench when they dont click. SPFL opposition hear Celtic are making wholesale changes and it adds to their already brimming motivation to frustrate the life out of the team and catch us on the break or through set pieces. Getting wholesale changes to click rarely will happen for one match in a blue moon. Lennon has alot still to learn about pre match preparation and playing matches every 3-4 days but in time I think he will as he gets exposed to it more.

I remember reading that Jorge Cadete talked with Lennon about becoming a strikers coach at the club. Either get him, if he's good enough, or hire Henrik Larsson at whatever cost because our composure, movement, final ball & finishing are in dire need of work. Getting Danny Grain to 1v1 coach the likes of Amido Balde will only go so far.

In short, Celtic need to improve their expertise on the football & business side (already said enough about how the board failed in the previous transfer window) and the culture of the club toward player development if they want to increase their chances of successfully developing players. There are many clubs that we can look to learn from and we should spend the rest of this season trying to win the double whilst getting things in place for next season.

I don't agree with you most of the time Dempsey but I have to say I think your post is spot on

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:46PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Anyone can make a claim for cheating yes you are right but the fact is the judgement didn't suit many who had us hung drawn and quartered before the verdict was given so it's hardly a surprise those seem people didn't like it when it came.
But hey ho we could go on like this for months in fact I have done it all on here before so I reckon it's pointless going over it all again.

Fair enough, it seems you understand my point even if you don't agree with it.

I wouldn't say I didn't like the verdict though. Obviously I think the ultimate ruling was a joke given the facts they agreed on were directly contradictory to the outcome. It's a bit like putting 2 apples on a table, then 2 more and declaring there are 3 apples there. Ultimately however it didn't make any difference anyway, and like I said the facts found in the report indicate an unfair advantage, even if the actual verdict (the opinion part) doesn't.

One last thing I'll ask, and you don't have to answer it, as a Rangers fan did you feel slightly cheated when it turned out the players you had been cheering on etc should in all fairness probably not have been playing for you in the first place? I.e. they were not earned. It's obviously not as extreme as the example I'm about to give but it must be slightly akin to celebrating a win then finding out the match was fixed.

I am pie · 27-11-2013 07:51PM

Antifa161 wrote: »

Then perhaps your first post should have been about that, rather than the banner.

Anyway this is clearly a pointless endevour since rather than respond with any sort of maturity you just label every reply "looking for a fight", "cheap jibes" etc rather than explain yourself. Don't approach topics then back out as soon as you're challenged, that's not what these message boards are for.

Again, you are not a mod, you don't get to make those decisions.

Do you have anything to say about football or is it just the politics you're into yourself?

Antifa161 · 27-11-2013 07:58PM

I am pie wrote: »

Again, you are not a mod, you don't get to make those decisions.

You keep saying this, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'm not offering my opinion on the charter or rules or anything. This website is a discussion forum, that's what it is. That's not an opinion and I don't need to be a mod to state it.

Do you have anything to say about football or is it just the politics you're into yourself?

I'm into both, as all my posts in this thread will prove. It doesn't look like discussing football with you would be a very fruitful endevour either though. "I think James Forrest should be dropped" "omg u just want to start a fight I'm not going to rise to that!!!"

RoryMac · 27-11-2013 08:01PM

Lennonist wrote: »

While I agree with the sentiment of the banner, the GB should have displayed it at a domestic game because it's a Scottish law that they are protesting and UEFA have a rule against political statements being displayed in Euro games. Saying that, did Barcelona get in trouble for the "Catalonia is not Spain" banner which was displayed in a CL game v Real Madrid a couple of years back I believe? There has to be consistency in these matters.

I don't think the banner had any place at any football match, I don't think it was over the top or even overly controversial but I think politics should be left at the door in football.

We have fans with a host of different political views(and religions, colours, creeds) but the one thing that is in common amongst us all is support of the team and that is imo what should be promoted.

I'm not sure that Barca banner was at a CL game but if it was I'm sure UEFA would have turned a blind eye to it.

Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

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