Stupid ads about how wonderful alcohol is

Saruman · 26-11-2013 09:20AM

Wibbs wrote: »

* EG a friend of mine decided to log her weekly drinking and nearly had heart failure when she looked at the result. She didn't consider herself a "drinker" and TBH I very rarely saw her even tipsy, yet she was consuming well over double the recommended safe weekly intake. She really panicked and got bloods done to check her liver function and all was perfectly fine. One of the lucky ones I suppose. I know a guy who is a major drinker, indeed a high functioning full on alco, yet his yearly extensive medical for insurance and his job comes back fine.

Which is what exactly? Those figures were plucked out of thin air without a shred of scientific evidence to support them. I'm not sure if they ever were reviewed in the UK afterwards, I'm just wondering what your friend was basing her recommended safe weekly intake on.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488682/Safe-drinking-limits-simply-guess.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/healthy-alcohol-limits-likely-to-be-increased-2319904.html

I'm not condoning going out and drinking as much as you can of course, far from it. I'm just saying that there's a lot of BS out there about safe alcohol limits that simply don't stand up to scrutiny and they also vary from country to country. We just base ours on the UK system as far as I know.

Baked.noodle · 26-11-2013 09:31AM

drumswan wrote: »

The 'average' person? What does that mean? Lots of nations dont drink for religious, cultural and body chemistry reasons. Ireland is not even top ten in Europe. Irish consumption has fallen year on year for over a decade and is down 20% since 2001. But lets not let the facts get in the way of hysteria.

I'm not sure how they got the figure for 'average' person. Nevertheless, here is another article which states that Ireland is indeed ahead in alcohol consumption. From 2009:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2009/02/20161722

...Industry sales figures suggest Scotland has the eighth highest alcohol consumption level in the world... Compared with the latest figures compiled by the World Health Organisation, this would place Scotland as having the eighth highest pure alcohol consumption level, behind only Luxembourg (15.6 litres per capita); Ireland (13.7 litres); Hungary (13.6 litres); Moldova (13.2 litres); Czech Republic (13.0 litres), Croatia (12.3 litres) and Germany (12.0 litres).

13.7 litres = 463oz.

Xeyn · 26-11-2013 09:44AM

drumswan wrote: »

The 'average' person? What does that mean? Lots of nations dont drink for religious, cultural and body chemistry reasons. Ireland is not even top ten in Europe. Irish consumption has fallen year on year for over a decade and is down 20% since 2001. But lets not let the facts get in the way of hysteria.

What has a reported reduction got to do with how much alcohol is consumed per capita today? The average person means just that- per capita.
Alcohol use today is still far higher than it was 50 years ago.

Real Psycrow · 26-11-2013 09:55AM

Xeyn wrote: »

What has a reported reduction got to do with how much alcohol is consumed per capita today? The average person means just that- per capita.
Alcohol use today is still far higher than it was 50 years ago.

I think what he was asking is where is this average derived from? An average of the global population? Just taking certain countries into account? Its a relevant question considering its being compared to the average Irish intake. Although I'd like to see references to those figures.

Xeyn · 26-11-2013 09:55AM

Saruman wrote: »

Which is what exactly? Those figures were plucked out of thin air without a shred of scientific evidence to support them. I'm not sure if they ever were reviewed in the UK afterwards, I'm just wondering what your friend was basing her recommended safe weekly intake on.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488682/Safe-drinking-limits-simply-guess.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/healthy-alcohol-limits-likely-to-be-increased-2319904.html

I'm not condoning going out and drinking as much as you can of course, far from it. I'm just saying that there's a lot of BS out there about safe alcohol limits that simply don't stand up to scrutiny and they also vary from country to country. We just base ours on the UK system as far as I know.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to quote the daily mail and indo on scientific matters but your point is taken. Ireland has a higher 'safety level' than the uk. Many studies support those levels and are used when testing for health benefits of alcohol.

El_Dangeroso · 26-11-2013 11:57AM

ScumLord wrote: »

When am I supposed to die?

June 12th 2054.

I've said too much

Saruman · 26-11-2013 12:01PM

Xeyn wrote: »

I wouldn't be in a hurry to quote the daily mail and indo on scientific matters but your point is taken. Ireland has a higher 'safety level' than the uk. Many studies support those levels and are used when testing for health benefits of alcohol.

That's only because they are the easiest ones to find on a google search but it wasn't from those sources that I heard the news years ago.

General General · 26-11-2013 02:41PM

maninasia wrote: »

No, not all crime is because of alcohol abuse in Ireland, but a very significant part of it is. The tolerance of the abuse of alcohol in Ireland goes deep. The single biggest factor to reducing crime rates and social problems would probably be to reduce alcohol consumption.

So, "ALL" becomes "a very significant part"... alongside the claim that the "single biggest factor" is, no, "would probably be"... such & such.

This last bit is like saying the undisputed champion in this year's tournament would probably be Dr. X.

rubadub · 26-11-2013 07:05PM

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

For example white wine drinkers are less likely to binge drink.

+1, all too many studies presume people are the exact same except for the single factor they pick.

I remember some study on drinking wine, I think it was saying totally tee total people were healthier than very moderate drinkers. But in my mind if you are tee total you are far more likely to be concerned about your health in other areas, so probably more likely to eat well & exercise.

The "When am I supposed to die?" question is very valid too though, if someone could cutout drinking & smoking and could live to 105 instead of 104 they might continue drinking & smoking and feel they enjoyed their life more.

Sjhrunner · 01-12-2013 05:53PM

rubadub wrote: »

I remember some study on drinking wine, I think it was saying totally tee total people were healthier than very moderate drinkers. .

Clin Chim Acta. 1996 Mar 15;246(1-2):59-76.
Alcohol and coronary heart disease: the evidence for a protective effect.

Kannel WB, Ellison RC.
Source

Evans Department of Medicine, Boston University School of Medicine, MA, USA.

Abstract

There is a considerable body of evidence indicating that moderate alcohol intake is associated with a reduced incidence of, and mortality from, coronary heart disease (CHD). There is also substantial evidence that problem drinking (well beyond two drinks per day) is associated with increased cardiovascular mortality. However, the frequently reported harmful effect of alcohol abuse on CHD mortality rates could be a result of mislabelling as CHD conditions such as alcohol-induced dilated cardiomyopathy, dysrhythmias, and hypertensive cardiovascular disease. The combination of protective and harmful influences of alcohol consumption results in a U-shaped mortality curve. A true protective effect of moderate intake of alcohol is likely, because of consistent findings in many large, well-conducted studies of diverse population samples and the apparent specificity of the protective effect for CHD and possibly atherosclerotic-thrombotic brain infarction. There are also biologically plausible mechanisms whereby the protection might be conferred. Alcohol has been shown convincingly to raise HDL subfractions which have been found to be protective against CHD, and it may also provide protection by an antithrombotic effect. There is a suggestion that wine, and red wine in particular, may be more protective than other alcoholic beverages. However, it is difficult to control adequately for confounding factors, since persons who prefer wine have been found to have a more advantageous lifestyle, a better cardiovascular risk profile, are better educated, and smoke less. The evidence for a protective effect of moderate alcohol intake includes population studies of alcohol and CHD mortality in 20 countries, case-control studies, prospective cohort studies, arteriographic studies, and animal experiments. Nevertheless, because there are no controlled trial data, it is possible that some other factor may be responsible for the apparent protective effect of alcohol. The inclusion of former drinkers or sick individuals in the non-drinker category, and lack of control for cigarette smoking and other risk factors, have been excluded as reasons for higher CHD rates among individuals who do not consume alcohol. No alternative explanation for the protective effect has surfaced after two decades of investigation of the alcohol-CHD relationship, yet, the penalties of heavy alcohol consumption are too large to ignore. Until we can be sure that advice that encourages the public to drink to avoid coronary heart disease does not increase abuse, we must be cautious in making general recommendations.

PMID: 8814971 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Stupid ads about how wonderful alcohol is

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