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Season 4, Episode 7 - Dead weight [AMC] [SPOILERS]

24

Comments

  • #32
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    8
    Martinez is an idiot for not killing the Guv. He signed his own death sentence. His deserted the Gov because he appeared suicidal not because of the woodbury cowards slaughter , Time had passed and after viewing the new gov family and heard them calling him Brian and seeing they cared for him he misjudged brought the guv in and screwed up and got himself fed to a pit of biters alive.

    Mitch was not "OK" with Pete getting killed. , he was totally stunned and practically crying. But guv had him at gun point. It was either, join guv, or die right now, just like Pete. The Guv is the master of Stockholm Syndrome.
    I'm not totally certain that Mitch was Pete's blood brother. Maybe, maybe not. Could have been referring to the fact that they were both military men. It is not so hard to believe that he started working with the Guv. His other choice was to be murdered right then and there. A I think when you are actually face to face with a crazy person who still has fresh blood just starting to get sticky on his hands from murdering someone else you are probably going to choose survival. At least until you have a better chance of over-powering him. And who knows, maybe deep down Mitch knows that a good guy like Pete would have gotten everyone killed. Pete would have made a weak leader, that much was clear in the cabin.
    Mitch is also clearly a bad seed and may not have liked his "brother" if indeed it was his brother and not just a comrade. He mocks the weak, different wanted to raid the small tent camp , disapproved of Martinez decision to bring in guvs family.
    He and the guv are kindred spirits


  • #33
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    I don't think he was his actual brother either. I got the impression he called him his brother because they served together in the military.

    Mitch and Pete were portrayed like ying and yang. This show is so damn obvious sometimes.


  • #34
    wandatowell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    8
    I really enjoyed this episode.



    Im guessing there is going to be a big standoff in the next episode but with no actual fight.


    The fight and its fallout with take place in the 2nd half of the season. YAWN.


  • #35
    Yakuza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    5
    So out of the *dozens* of people in the camp, no-one saw what the Govnernor did to Martinez? How did he manage to get the other body to the lake without anyone noticing? A leaky roof with no obvious precipitation? One minute the camp is deserted, the next it's swarming with inhabitants...this ep had more plot holes than a swiss cheese.


  • #36
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    LOSTfan57 wrote: »
    I dont get it...if people really hate this show and find it so terrible why watch it? Just like to have a moan? These threads can be bizarre

    Wait, you can't be for real?

    People are allowed to like stuff and still criticise it!!!!

    Examples:

    Love chinese food, criticise a particular restaurant as the food was muck.

    Support Man Utd in football, criticise them when they play poorly.

    Like a certain band a lot, criticise their latest album.

    Like your job a lot, but moan about it when you're having a bad day.


    People are well within their rights to invest time in a show, watch it and still criticise it. Ok, of course, at some point if it's criticism every single week then it might be time to give up on it. But say for example you dislike 10 episodes out of a 4 season run, you're still allowed to like and watch the show.

    More to the point, there's a collossal amount of pure sh1te on telly these days and, for some, watching an intrinsically decent show that still gets on their nerves > 99% of anything else on the box.


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  • #37
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    More to the point, there's a collossal amount of pure sh1te on telly these days and, for some, watching an intrinsically decent show that still gets on their nerves > 99% of anything else on the box.

    That's a good point. As much as I slate this show, its better than 90% of stuff out there. The production value alone of TWD is almost reason enough to watch it.


  • #38
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    1
    Yakuza wrote: »
    One minute the camp is deserted, the next it's swarming with inhabitants...this ep had more plot holes than a swiss cheese.

    I know what you mean, but you know they were all just relaxing in their caravans right? Why not??


  • #39
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    7
    Mitch and Pete Dolgen ARE brothers as said during the episode and in the casting call for these characters. Dont know why people cant understand what the show says.....


  • #40
    Lovely Bloke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭Lovely Bloke


    Was nice to see Dale back too


  • #41
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    2
    I thought last week was bad but this week was even worse in regards the ridiculous writing and down right dumb plot holes.

    The Gov's arc over the last two episodes is just not believable or natural. Here we have a man who is punishing himself, wandering around on his own for months, clearly disturbed by his actions. Doesn't want to make contact with anyone.

    Next episode he's back to being a murdering psycho lunatic !!!

    The whole thing with the Gov killing Martinez was absolutely stupid. Martinez suggests he step up and play more of a leadership role. The Gov is so upset by this that he beats the guy with a golf club and throws him into a pit of zombies to die. The Gov is clearly traumatised by the suggestion of being a leader again because of the mess he left behind last time.

    Yet 5 mins later he has killed the interim leader in cold blood, recruited his brother (who's grand with all of this after a bit of a cry and smoke) as his lieutenant and has take full leadership of the group !!! He was going on a like a mad man say he didn't want it earlier.

    It really disappoints me how lazy and sloppy the writing has become. It seems like nothing has progressed, its the same stand off as last season, Rick vs Gov / Woodbury vs Prison.


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  • #42
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    5
    Yakuza wrote: »
    So out of the *dozens* of people in the camp, no-one saw what the Govnernor did to Martinez? How did he manage to get the other body to the lake without anyone noticing? A leaky roof with no obvious precipitation? One minute the camp is deserted, the next it's swarming with inhabitants...this ep had more plot holes than a swiss cheese.

    I think the Governor watched too many episodes of the later seasons of Dexter.


  • #43
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,638 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Terrible episode. And I had really enjoyed seeing the governor back last week. I find it amazing how people on the road can go months without seeing anyone else alive and then suddenly they are tripping over other people.

    The decapitated zombie heads were good though.


  • #44
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,915 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    I like this show a lot, but that was definitely one of the poorer episodes. Hopefully they will do soon what they should have done at the end of last season - kill the governor and move the main cast out of the prison.


  • #45
    Yakuza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    5
    I forgot to add above that I did like the bit with the tank, to Johnston Green in Jericho, "you never know when you're going to need a tank" ;) I've not read the comics so I've no idea whether it's significant or not.


  • #46
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    7
    So wait did people actually think The Governor was not going to return to try and get the prison group? THAT would be ****ty writing of course he was going to return he HAD to thats glaringly obvious. Episode 6 had a definite non linear timeframe as did parts of 7. Only at its end do we see the timelines join up. It would have been utter crap to just have the gov appear and do things so having his two episodes so that we know what he did was the only sensible thing. Live Bait had a lot of similarities between The Gov and Rick. Now his motives to attack are different. The man has changed and we got to see that. That is good writing rather than just never mentioning him ever again or have him appear out of the blue. People can call what Gimple has done "bad" writing but if these people were in charge of the show it would be a helluva lot worse.


  • #47
    pixelburp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yakuza wrote: »
    I forgot to add above that I did like the bit with the tank, to Johnston Green in Jericho, "you never know when you're going to need a tank" ;) I've not read the comics so I've no idea whether it's significant or not.

    Nor have I read the comics, but it seemed to me like a clear case of Checkov's gun... well, tank I guess; you can't introduce a fully-functioning tank in one episode & not fire/use it at some point in the future.


  • #48
    obriendj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭obriendj


    6
    LOSTfan57 wrote: »
    So wait did people actually think The Governor was not going to return to try and get the prison group? THAT would be ****ty writing of course he was going to return he HAD to thats glaringly obvious. Episode 6 had a definite non linear timeframe as did parts of 7. Only at its end do we see the timelines join up. It would have been utter crap to just have the gov appear and do things so having his two episodes so that we know what he did was the only sensible thing. Live Bait had a lot of similarities between The Gov and Rick. Now his motives to attack are different. The man has changed and we got to see that. That is good writing rather than just never mentioning him ever again or have him appear out of the blue. People can call what Gimple has done "bad" writing but if these people were in charge of the show it would be a helluva lot worse.

    Yeah I dont see the problem with what they did. They dont seem to want to split an episode between 2 separate groups, they did this last season as well. It gave a small insight into his character but dont see how his motives are that different. He still wants the prison as it is safer that the Camp site.


  • #49
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    LOSTfan57 wrote: »
    So wait did people actually think The Governor was not going to return to try and get the prison group? THAT would be ****ty writing of course he was going to return he HAD to thats glaringly obvious. Episode 6 had a definite non linear timeframe as did parts of 7. Only at its end do we see the timelines join up. It would have been utter crap to just have the gov appear and do things so having his two episodes so that we know what he did was the only sensible thing. Live Bait had a lot of similarities between The Gov and Rick. Now his motives to attack are different. The man has changed and we got to see that. That is good writing rather than just never mentioning him ever again or have him appear out of the blue. People can call what Gimple has done "bad" writing but if these people were in charge of the show it would be a helluva lot worse.

    By this logic, I cannot criticise a professional footballer because he is better at football than me. Rubbish.

    I am no writer nor have I ever claimed to be. TWD's budget is in the region of $2.8m per episode. I expect decent writing for that money.

    I don't have a huge issue with the over arching plot itself, its the delivery that is piss poor. I think it would be best for everyone involved if I just stopped posting here altogether. I'm getting too wound up by some posts, especially this piece of fan fiction.


  • #50
    Gbear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    5
    It felt a bit like they had this great idea to show the Gov appearing mid-way through the season and then backtrack and show his progress before a climax at the mid-season break.

    Their execution of the idea hasn't been great.
    There's been some good moments. The Governor makes for good TV. He's a presence on screen. There's been some solid bits of action in the last 2 episodes, some shocks and overall I thought they were both ok.
    I generally do have problems with plot holes but ones like there not being people around either for the governor to bump into on his travels or inside the camp itself when the zombie was chasing the little kid don't bother me. Both are unlikely but not ridiculous. It's not like they had to break the laws of physics to get them to work in the show.
    Most of the plot holes are minor ones like that - mild contrivances to advance the plot. Not brilliant writing but not catastrophically bad either.


  • #51
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    2
    Gbear wrote: »
    Most of the plot holes are minor ones like that - mild contrivances to advance the plot. Not brilliant writing but not catastrophically bad either.

    I disagree.

    The last two episodes have been filled with glaring plotholes, dumbness and general poor writing.

    I'm gonna call the scene in epi 7 where Mitch is told by the Gov that he killed his bro, the Gov explains it to him like he's 4 year old then tells him to have a smoke. Come off it. Stupid writing...

    Why not this: they aren't brothers, Gov turns up, I'm charge now howya fixed? problem solved.

    He's either with him or he's not and the Gov blows his head off.

    A grown man finds out the man sitting across from him just whacked his brother. The first chance he gets, that's if he can compose himself not to immediately attack, and he kills the Gov. Straight up, no questions asked.

    And a man as intelligent as the Gov thinks this man is trust worthy considering he just killed his brother?

    Lame writing...


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  • #52
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    7
    Grimebox wrote: »
    By this logic, I cannot criticise a professional footballer because he is better at football than me. Rubbish.

    I am no writer nor have I ever claimed to be. TWD's budget is in the region of $2.8m per episode. I expect decent writing for that money.

    I don't have a huge issue with the over arching plot itself, its the delivery that is piss poor. I think it would be best for everyone involved if I just stopped posting here altogether. I'm getting too wound up by some posts, especially this piece of fan fiction.

    Not my point at all. Point is do you think it would actually be better to think the gov has forgiven and just moved on? Or that we just saw the gov appear out of the blue and never know what he himself did for these 8 months? Both those alternatives would be ridiculous.


  • #53
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    5
    The Governor needs a bullet between the eye. End of. Then we can all move on.


  • #54
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    2
    Cork boy 55 wrote: »
    Martinez is an idiot for not killing the Guv. He signed his own death sentence. His deserted the Gov because he appeared suicidal not because of the woodbury cowards slaughter , Time had passed and after viewing the new gov family and heard them calling him Brian and seeing they cared for him he misjudged brought the guv in and screwed up and got himself fed to a pit of biters alive.

    Mitch was not "OK" with Pete getting killed. , he was totally stunned and practically crying. But guv had him at gun point. It was either, join guv, or die right now, just like Pete. The Guv is the master of Stockholm Syndrome.
    I'm not totally certain that Mitch was Pete's blood brother. Maybe, maybe not. Could have been referring to the fact that they were both military men. It is not so hard to believe that he started working with the Guv. His other choice was to be murdered right then and there. A I think when you are actually face to face with a crazy person who still has fresh blood just starting to get sticky on his hands from murdering someone else you are probably going to choose survival. At least until you have a better chance of over-powering him. And who knows, maybe deep down Mitch knows that a good guy like Pete would have gotten everyone killed. Pete would have made a weak leader, that much was clear in the cabin.
    Mitch is also clearly a bad seed and may not have liked his "brother" if indeed it was his brother and not just a comrade. He mocks the weak, different wanted to raid the small tent camp , disapproved of Martinez decision to bring in guvs family.
    He and the guv are kindred spirits

    I'm sorry but this is total garbage and mindless rambling. You have no idea what you're talking about...
    The Guv is the master of Stockholm Syndrome.

    ????????? :eek::eek::eek:


  • #55
    Gbear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    5
    Keyzer wrote: »
    I disagree.

    The last two episodes have been filled with glaring plotholes, dumbness and general poor writing.

    I'm gonna call the scene in epi 7 where Mitch is told by the Gov that he killed his bro, the Gov explains it to him like he's 4 year old then tells him to have a smoke. Come off it. Stupid writing...

    Why not this: they aren't brothers, Gov turns up, I'm charge now howya fixed? problem solved.

    He's either with him or he's not and the Gov blows his head off.

    A grown man finds out the man sitting across from him just whacked his brother. The first chance he gets, that's if he can compose himself not to immediately attack, and he kills the Gov. Straight up, no questions asked.

    And a man as intelligent as the Gov thinks this man is trust worthy considering he just killed his brother?

    Lame writing...

    There's a lot of people jumping the gun about this. The season isn't over. We don't know how that relationship is going to be resolved yet.

    Until we do, calling it poor writing is nonsense.


  • #56
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    2
    Grimebox wrote: »
    By this logic, I cannot criticise a professional footballer because he is better at football than me. Rubbish.

    I am no writer nor have I ever claimed to be. TWD's budget is in the region of $2.8m per episode. I expect decent writing for that money.

    I don't have a huge issue with the over arching plot itself, its the delivery that is piss poor. I think it would be best for everyone involved if I just stopped posting here altogether. I'm getting too wound up by some posts, especially this piece of fan fiction.

    I'm with you all the way man...


  • #57
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    7
    Keyzer wrote: »
    I disagree.

    The last two episodes have been filled with glaring plotholes, dumbness and general poor writing.

    I'm gonna call the scene in epi 7 where Mitch is told by the Gov that he killed his bro, the Gov explains it to him like he's 4 year old then tells him to have a smoke. Come off it. Stupid writing...

    Why not this: they aren't brothers, Gov turns up, I'm charge now howya fixed? problem solved.

    He's either with him or he's not and the Gov blows his head off.

    A grown man finds out the man sitting across from him just whacked his brother. The first chance he gets, that's if he can compose himself not to immediately attack, and he kills the Gov. Straight up, no questions asked.

    And a man as intelligent as the Gov thinks this man is trust worthy considering he just killed his brother?

    Lame writing...
    Nope Mitch and Pete are very different. Mitch is more violent and survivalist and was easier for the gov to manipulate. Mitch is also a lot more indifferent and had already bought into The Governors ideaology and probably believes that Pete is not ready for this world. This is a paralel to how Shane viewed Rick. Mitch believes he can do better than his brother. Mitch and Philip have similar ideaologies. This was designed to show Mitch's coldness. As for the Governor blowing the tank drivers head off? He wasn't going to do that no. Mitch is a specialist that is bound to be handy, whereas Martinez was an unskilled reminder to his past and Pete just way to decent to buy his bull****.


  • #58
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    2
    LOSTfan57 wrote: »
    Nope Mitch and Pete are very different. Mitch is more violent and survivalist and was easier for the gov to manipulate. Mitch is also a lot more indifferent and had already bought into The Governors ideaology and probably believes that Pete is not ready for this world. This is a paralel to how Shane viewed Rick. Mitch believes he can do better than his brother. Mitch and Philip have similar ideaologies. This was designed to show Mitch's coldness. As for the Governor blowing the tank drivers head off? He wasn't going to do that no. Mitch is a specialist that is bound to be handy, whereas Martinez was an unskilled reminder to his past and Pete just way to decent to buy his bull****.

    Let me spell this out:

    HE JUST KILLED HIS F"CKING BROTHER !!!

    Ask yourself, would you jump into bed with the man who just murdered your brother? Probably the last member of your family left in the world? You'd be fine with that would you? You'd be able to think rationally and deal with it with vulcan style non-emotion?

    If they weren't brothers I wouldn't give a toss.


  • #59
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    7
    Keyzer wrote: »
    Let me spell this out:

    HE JUST KILLED HIS F"CKING BROTHER !!!

    Ask yourself, would you jump into bed with the man who just murdered your brother? Probably the last member of your family left in the world? You'd be fine with that would you? You'd be able to think rationally and deal with it with vulcan style non-emotion?

    If they weren't brothers I wouldn't give a toss.

    OK then I'll spell it out again for you. Me no but the whole point is Mitch is rational and focused on surviving and does not let emotion cloud his survival instincts. Me no I wouldnt thanks for asking would you? Point is Mitch is a cold heartless bastard. I am not. Simples


  • #60
    Yakuza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    5
    MadYaker wrote: »
    The Governor needs a bullet between the eye

    FYP :) (I assume you meant eyes in your post :))


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  • #61
    Lovely Bloke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭Lovely Bloke


    Maybe he had a gun pointed at him and didn't want to get shot, and maybe he's waiting, biding his time because he's not a moron who needs instant gratification.


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