Shamrock Rovers to enter B Side in First Division

SantryRed · 25-11-2013 01:17PM #1

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html

The move is expected to be completed within the next seven days, with a formal announcement scheduled for the early part of next week.

If all the loose ends are tied up, and there is no reason why they will not be, then Rovers will become the first Irish club to have two senior teams competing in the League of Ireland.

What are people's views on this?

In my opinion, something had to be done to stop the FD starting next season with just 7 teams. But is it fair for Rovers to be the only team with another side? It'll also be interesting to see with how they deal with players playing for both sides, or if they'll actually allow it.

Does anyone know how this issue is dealt with in Spain? With the likes of the Barcelona B side?

chopperbyrne · 25-11-2013 01:23PM

Not happy with this.

Extra expense that Rovers don't need.

dfx- · 25-11-2013 02:02PM

I don't mind it. Looks like getting what was the A team into the FD.

Oat23 · 25-11-2013 02:25PM

They really do love wasting money, don't they? First paying Eamon Zayed to attend their games and now €80k to play in the graveyard.

Gavin "shels" · 25-11-2013 02:33PM

At least I've one handy away trip!

darragh16 · 25-11-2013 02:54PM

The FAI are looking for a quick fix solution rather than addressing the problem. Disgrace is my opinion

overshoot · 25-11-2013 03:09PM

its a better alternative than a 7 team first division but still a pathetic bodge job. the league is in tatters & something more drastic has to be done rather than allowing it to limp along and slowly bleed clubs.

the league needs to expand now more than ever and its simply too big a risk for clubs given the current structures but the FAI dont give a flying... how is a junior/intermediate club meant to take the gamble that could cost them the club itself? 100k is a huge amount of money to gamble just to run an amateur team, 19k of that is straight down the drain in the league entry fee which only the top 3 in the premier will get back. the repetition of fixtures in both tiers is another issue i cant imagine is helping either.

its time to go with a 16 team premier and a A championship style D1 with no entry fee to give the likes of carlow/tralee/castlebar/mullingar a shot at making a gradual step into the league football. It might even be possible to do a north/south divide and playoff promotions with the regional leagues. some clubs may return, mons/kilkenny. cobh continued to exist in the A championship after they folded their senior team for example.

May need to do a single division for a year and relegate 3 before implementing it (saving my own club il admit!) but its clear the current structure is a shambles

dreamers75 · 25-11-2013 03:19PM

Problem with 16 team league is the fulg between top and bottom, there would be some hammerings and the middle/bottom teams would have **** all to play for by June.

Can see the pros and cons from rovers point but think they should invest it in their youth teams rather than a reserve team.

Hope they get relegated for the craic

Lovely Bloke · 25-11-2013 03:22PM

the real question here is, what is a fulg?

overshoot · 25-11-2013 03:30PM

dreamers75 wrote: »

Problem with 16 team league is the fulg between top and bottom, there would be some hammerings and the middle/bottom teams would have **** all to play for by June.

there would still be relegation for the teams at the bottom in some form, automatic or playoff. and anyway there is definitely 3/4 teams every year with absolutely nothing to play for, for a a large chunk of the season in D1, not even relegation, out of sight out of mind? were limerick, cork, or and to some extent drogs playing for anything this year in mid table as it is?

Lovely Bloke · 25-11-2013 03:37PM

overshoot wrote: »

out of sight out of mind?

for that particular poster - yes.:rolleyes:

Richard Hillman · 25-11-2013 03:37PM

Great for the fans. Now they can boo 2 teams off the pitch every week.

AgileMyth · 25-11-2013 03:42PM

Maybe they got so used to sharing a ground they just had to go back.

Can't see it lasting beyond a single season. Think Project Galway will fail too. Single division for 2015 unless there is a wholesale change allowing for a proper league pyramid, which won't happen.

Can we please do away with the myth that Shams are semi professional too. Not sure why they wish to put this spin on things but they are a full time professional outfit.

dreamers75 · 25-11-2013 03:50PM

overshoot wrote: »

there would still be relegation for the teams at the bottom in some form, automatic or playoff. and anyway there is definitely 3/4 teams every year with absolutely nothing to play for, for a a large chunk of the season in D1, not even relegation, out of sight out of mind? were limerick, cork, or and to some extent drogs playing for anything this year in mid table as it is?

"In some form" too many variables. Team that wins it doesnt have facilities to play prem. Doesnt want to, Cant (rovers 2).

That would be worse than what we currently have. I would prefer a 16 team prem and 10 team 1st but its not currently viable.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

the real question here is, what is a fulg?

Its a word play, well done you didnt win. I see your :rolleyes: and raise you :rolleyes::rolleyes:

overshoot · 25-11-2013 04:04PM

dreamers75 wrote: »

That would be worse than what we currently have. I would prefer a 16 team prem and 10 team 1st but its not currently viable.

so would i but we dont even have 20 teams nevermind 26, restructuring will have to start with what we currently have and what we currently have isnt viable either! promotion happened under the old A championship, why not this time? 2 new teams which earned their place and the FAI removed in 1 swoop

if we want 2 divisions we dont have much choice but to use A teams, at least lets have one decent national division before resorting to it. at the minute clubs will slowly die and 1 division is inevitable anyway so do we restructure when we have a starting point of 19 or 16 or 14...12?

we probably are set into this league structure for 2014 but it would be nice if the FAI could show some sort of plan for the future of the league rather than plug a gap a month after ever season ends and limp along

secman · 25-11-2013 04:09PM

2 teams to hate now..............excellent !

dfx- · 25-11-2013 04:48PM

dreamers75 wrote: »

Hope they get relegated for the craic

I would assume this to be the case regardless of a B team..

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Great for the fans. Now they can boo 2 teams off the pitch every week.

Home game on the Friday and outside-Dublin game on Saturday nights, good arrangement.

losthorizon · 25-11-2013 06:42PM

darragh16 wrote: »

The FAI are looking for a quick fix solution rather than addressing the problem. Disgrace is my opinion

The question is why are they doing this? I assume this Rovers "B" team will not be allowed to be promoted?

dreamers75 · 25-11-2013 06:58PM

dfx- wrote: »

I would assume this to be the case regardless of a B team..

Not just rovers related, always wondered what would happen if an A team was relegated to a league a B team was in.

Think it happened in Spain and the B team was relegated to the C league, not 100% sure.

P_1 · 25-11-2013 07:20PM

SantryRed wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html

What are people's views on this?

In my opinion, something had to be done to stop the FD starting next season with just 7 teams. But is it fair for Rovers to be the only team with another side? It'll also be interesting to see with how they deal with players playing for both sides, or if they'll actually allow it.

Does anyone know how this issue is dealt with in Spain? With the likes of the Barcelona B side?

As far as I know one club can't have 2 teams in the same division, so were Barcelona B to win the Segunda Division they get the trophy but don't get promoted. Also I'm fairly sure that both teams can't swap players too

darragh16 · 25-11-2013 07:38PM

losthorizon wrote: »

The question is why are they doing this? I assume this Rovers "B" team will not be allowed to be promoted?

They can't get promoted and can't play in the FAI or League Cups. Some structure will have to be put in place so they can't just swap players back and forth.

The FAI are doing this due to a combination of them not caring about the league, Shams (apparently) have the finances to support two teams and they didn't receive any interest from non-league teams.

Gavin "shels" · 25-11-2013 07:51PM

darragh16 wrote: »

they didn't receive any interest from non-league teams.

The 19k entry fee probably sent most running from the off tbf.

14-16 team Premier and then regionalise a North/West and South/East!

SantryRed · 25-11-2013 08:00PM

The League of Ireland is forever doomed due to a lack of any kind of structure between lower levels and the LoI.

darragh16 · 25-11-2013 08:14PM

Gavin shels wrote: »

The 19k entry fee probably sent most running from the off tbf.

14-16 team Premier and then regionalise a North/West and South/East!

Yeah, the FAI should scrap the entry fee, especially for first division teams which find it difficult enough to keep their heads above water. Travel expenses alone would take up a large amount of a teams budget especially teams like Finn Harps

overshoot · 25-11-2013 08:32PM

Right being doing a bit of ranting on this today so il show my ideal plan and be off! No entry fee, & massive reduction in travel costs, might at least give teams a chance. If your going to start introducing A teams just go the whole way IMO. The patch to keep us at 20 is doing nobody favours in the long run

Based on the final positions if you were to rejig things....
Iv included anyone who was in the A championship before & there were rumblings in Kilkenny about a revival & mons didnt die completely so added them

Premier (16)
Pats, Dundalk, Sligo, Derry, Shams, Cork, Limerick, Drogs, UCD, Bohs, Bray, Shels, Athlone, Longford, Waterford, Wexford

Northern (10)
Harps, Galway, Mons, Castlebar, Tullamore, Fanad,
Sligo A, Derry A, Dundalk A, Drogs A

Southern (10)
Cobh, Carlow, kilkenny, Tralee, Could you find a Tipp team?
Cork A, Limerick A, Pats A, Shams A

*the last A championship in 2011 had 14 A teams
Last in premier automatic down,
Highest non A team; North v South winner automatic promotion,
loser v Second last in premier

Easier said than done of course but at least all (bar tipp?) have participated in the 3 tiers of the LOI since in the last 3 years

Alternative... merge with the Irish league, but given they have proper structures im sure we would need to put the same in place. Plus never gonna happen for loss of European places

dreamers75 · 25-11-2013 11:07PM

Thats not a bad idea.

ben.schlomo · 25-11-2013 11:37PM

P_1 wrote: »

As far as I know one club can't have 2 teams in the same division, so were Barcelona B to win the Segunda Division they get the trophy but don't get promoted. Also I'm fairly sure that both teams can't swap players too

Not 100% on Spain but in both Holland and Portugal players can move up and down between senior and amateur/b/youth teams during a season.

darragh16 · 25-11-2013 11:53PM

overshoot wrote: »

Right being doing a bit of ranting on this today so il show my ideal plan and be off! No entry fee, & massive reduction in travel costs, might at least give teams a chance. If your going to start introducing A teams just go the whole way IMO. The patch to keep us at 20 is doing nobody favours in the long run

Based on the final positions if you were to rejig things....
Iv included anyone who was in the A championship before & there were rumblings in Kilkenny about a revival & mons didnt die completely so added them

Premier (16)
Pats, Dundalk, Sligo, Derry, Shams, Cork, Limerick, Drogs, UCD, Bohs, Bray, Shels, Athlone, Longford, Waterford, Wexford

Northern (10)
Harps, Galway, Mons, Castlebar, Tullamore, Fanad,
Sligo A, Derry A, Dundalk A, Drogs A

Southern (10)
Cobh, Carlow, kilkenny, Tralee, Could you find a Tipp team?
Cork A, Limerick A, Pats A, Shams A

*the last A championship in 2011 had 14 A teams
Last in premier automatic down,
Highest non A team; North v South winner automatic promotion,
loser v Second last in premier

Easier said than done of course but at least all (bar tipp?) have participated in the 3 tiers of the LOI since in the last 3 years

Alternative... merge with the Irish league, but given they have proper structures im sure we would need to put the same in place. Plus never gonna happen for loss of European places

The Northern system is actually really good in fairness to them and they don't have reserve teams to make up the numbers.

There should be an intermediate level in Ireland, whether it be below first division or below the premier division. I think that the LoI should link in with LSL, MSL and USL whereby winners of them divisions have the chance to progress further assuming they meet licencing criteria. Teams should be in the league on merit

Gavin "shels" · 26-11-2013 12:54AM

overshoot wrote: »

Right being doing a bit of ranting on this today so il show my ideal plan and be off! No entry fee, & massive reduction in travel costs, might at least give teams a chance. If your going to start introducing A teams just go the whole way IMO. The patch to keep us at 20 is doing nobody favours in the long run

Based on the final positions if you were to rejig things....
Iv included anyone who was in the A championship before & there were rumblings in Kilkenny about a revival & mons didnt die completely so added them

Premier (16)
Pats, Dundalk, Sligo, Derry, Shams, Cork, Limerick, Drogs, UCD, Bohs, Bray, Shels, Athlone, Longford, Waterford, Wexford

Northern (10)
Harps, Galway, Mons, Castlebar, Tullamore, Fanad,
Sligo A, Derry A, Dundalk A, Drogs A

Southern (10)
Cobh, Carlow, kilkenny, Tralee, Could you find a Tipp team?
Cork A, Limerick A, Pats A, Shams A

*the last A championship in 2011 had 14 A teams
Last in premier automatic down,
Highest non A team; North v South winner automatic promotion,
loser v Second last in premier

Easier said than done of course but at least all (bar tipp?) have participated in the 3 tiers of the LOI since in the last 3 years

Alternative... merge with the Irish league, but given they have proper structures im sure we would need to put the same in place. Plus never gonna happen for loss of European places

I'd be leaning towards Galway in the Premier over Wexford to start tbh.

Augmerson · 26-11-2013 01:33AM

darragh16 wrote: »

Yeah, the FAI should scrap the entry fee.

Yes but Delaney needs money to buy the lads cans and for new ties. It's a genuine concern.

civis_liberalis · 26-11-2013 02:52AM

Any attempts to substantially fix the structure of the LOI will never succeed long-term because the gap between the LOI and leagues outside of it.

The bigger LSL clubs for example, much prefer being big fish in a small pond.

The usual suspects in terms of nursery clubs have no ambitions to play at a higher level at adult grade, because they get the most out of the current system by continuing focusing on sending as many kids, as often as possible across the water.

Nobody ever hears about the SFAI (schoolboy body) yet they are a massive power within the FAI, who will let go of the stranglehold they have with their cold dead hands.

The same goes for the provincial and local bodies, who want to remain as the boss of their own little fiefdoms.

Shamrock Rovers to enter B Side in First Division

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