Shamrock Rovers to enter B Side in First Division

SantryRed

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html

The move is expected to be completed within the next seven days, with a formal announcement scheduled for the early part of next week.

If all the loose ends are tied up, and there is no reason why they will not be, then Rovers will become the first Irish club to have two senior teams competing in the League of Ireland.

What are people's views on this?

In my opinion, something had to be done to stop the FD starting next season with just 7 teams. But is it fair for Rovers to be the only team with another side? It'll also be interesting to see with how they deal with players playing for both sides, or if they'll actually allow it.

Does anyone know how this issue is dealt with in Spain? With the likes of the Barcelona B side?

chopperbyrne

Not happy with this.

Extra expense that Rovers don't need.

dfx-

I don't mind it. Looks like getting what was the A team into the FD.

Oat23

They really do love wasting money, don't they? First paying Eamon Zayed to attend their games and now €80k to play in the graveyard.

Gavin "shels"

At least I've one handy away trip!

darragh16

The FAI are looking for a quick fix solution rather than addressing the problem. Disgrace is my opinion

overshoot

its a better alternative than a 7 team first division but still a pathetic bodge job. the league is in tatters & something more drastic has to be done rather than allowing it to limp along and slowly bleed clubs.

the league needs to expand now more than ever and its simply too big a risk for clubs given the current structures but the FAI dont give a flying... how is a junior/intermediate club meant to take the gamble that could cost them the club itself? 100k is a huge amount of money to gamble just to run an amateur team, 19k of that is straight down the drain in the league entry fee which only the top 3 in the premier will get back. the repetition of fixtures in both tiers is another issue i cant imagine is helping either.

its time to go with a 16 team premier and a A championship style D1 with no entry fee to give the likes of carlow/tralee/castlebar/mullingar a shot at making a gradual step into the league football. It might even be possible to do a north/south divide and playoff promotions with the regional leagues. some clubs may return, mons/kilkenny. cobh continued to exist in the A championship after they folded their senior team for example.

May need to do a single division for a year and relegate 3 before implementing it (saving my own club il admit!) but its clear the current structure is a shambles

dreamers75

Problem with 16 team league is the fulg between top and bottom, there would be some hammerings and the middle/bottom teams would have **** all to play for by June.

Can see the pros and cons from rovers point but think they should invest it in their youth teams rather than a reserve team.

Hope they get relegated for the craic

Lovely Bloke

the real question here is, what is a fulg?

overshoot

dreamers75 wrote: »

Problem with 16 team league is the fulg between top and bottom, there would be some hammerings and the middle/bottom teams would have **** all to play for by June.

there would still be relegation for the teams at the bottom in some form, automatic or playoff. and anyway there is definitely 3/4 teams every year with absolutely nothing to play for, for a a large chunk of the season in D1, not even relegation, out of sight out of mind? were limerick, cork, or and to some extent drogs playing for anything this year in mid table as it is?

Lovely Bloke

overshoot wrote: »

out of sight out of mind?

for that particular poster - yes.:rolleyes:

Richard Hillman

Great for the fans. Now they can boo 2 teams off the pitch every week.

AgileMyth

Maybe they got so used to sharing a ground they just had to go back.

Can't see it lasting beyond a single season. Think Project Galway will fail too. Single division for 2015 unless there is a wholesale change allowing for a proper league pyramid, which won't happen.

Can we please do away with the myth that Shams are semi professional too. Not sure why they wish to put this spin on things but they are a full time professional outfit.

dreamers75

overshoot wrote: »

there would still be relegation for the teams at the bottom in some form, automatic or playoff. and anyway there is definitely 3/4 teams every year with absolutely nothing to play for, for a a large chunk of the season in D1, not even relegation, out of sight out of mind? were limerick, cork, or and to some extent drogs playing for anything this year in mid table as it is?

"In some form" too many variables. Team that wins it doesnt have facilities to play prem. Doesnt want to, Cant (rovers 2).

That would be worse than what we currently have. I would prefer a 16 team prem and 10 team 1st but its not currently viable.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

the real question here is, what is a fulg?

Its a word play, well done you didnt win. I see your :rolleyes: and raise you :rolleyes::rolleyes:

overshoot

dreamers75 wrote: »

That would be worse than what we currently have. I would prefer a 16 team prem and 10 team 1st but its not currently viable.

so would i but we dont even have 20 teams nevermind 26, restructuring will have to start with what we currently have and what we currently have isnt viable either! promotion happened under the old A championship, why not this time? 2 new teams which earned their place and the FAI removed in 1 swoop

if we want 2 divisions we dont have much choice but to use A teams, at least lets have one decent national division before resorting to it. at the minute clubs will slowly die and 1 division is inevitable anyway so do we restructure when we have a starting point of 19 or 16 or 14...12?

we probably are set into this league structure for 2014 but it would be nice if the FAI could show some sort of plan for the future of the league rather than plug a gap a month after ever season ends and limp along

secman

2 teams to hate now..............excellent !

dfx-

dreamers75 wrote: »

Hope they get relegated for the craic

I would assume this to be the case regardless of a B team..

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Great for the fans. Now they can boo 2 teams off the pitch every week.

Home game on the Friday and outside-Dublin game on Saturday nights, good arrangement.

losthorizon

darragh16 wrote: »

The FAI are looking for a quick fix solution rather than addressing the problem. Disgrace is my opinion

The question is why are they doing this? I assume this Rovers "B" team will not be allowed to be promoted?

dreamers75

dfx- wrote: »

I would assume this to be the case regardless of a B team..

Not just rovers related, always wondered what would happen if an A team was relegated to a league a B team was in.

Think it happened in Spain and the B team was relegated to the C league, not 100% sure.

P_1

SantryRed wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rovers-b-squad-set-to-play-in-first-division-29780982.html



What are people's views on this?

In my opinion, something had to be done to stop the FD starting next season with just 7 teams. But is it fair for Rovers to be the only team with another side? It'll also be interesting to see with how they deal with players playing for both sides, or if they'll actually allow it.

Does anyone know how this issue is dealt with in Spain? With the likes of the Barcelona B side?

As far as I know one club can't have 2 teams in the same division, so were Barcelona B to win the Segunda Division they get the trophy but don't get promoted. Also I'm fairly sure that both teams can't swap players too

darragh16

losthorizon wrote: »

The question is why are they doing this? I assume this Rovers "B" team will not be allowed to be promoted?

They can't get promoted and can't play in the FAI or League Cups. Some structure will have to be put in place so they can't just swap players back and forth.

The FAI are doing this due to a combination of them not caring about the league, Shams (apparently) have the finances to support two teams and they didn't receive any interest from non-league teams.

Gavin "shels"

darragh16 wrote: »

they didn't receive any interest from non-league teams.

The 19k entry fee probably sent most running from the off tbf.

14-16 team Premier and then regionalise a North/West and South/East!

SantryRed

The League of Ireland is forever doomed due to a lack of any kind of structure between lower levels and the LoI.

darragh16

Gavin shels wrote: »

The 19k entry fee probably sent most running from the off tbf.

14-16 team Premier and then regionalise a North/West and South/East!

Yeah, the FAI should scrap the entry fee, especially for first division teams which find it difficult enough to keep their heads above water. Travel expenses alone would take up a large amount of a teams budget especially teams like Finn Harps

overshoot

Right being doing a bit of ranting on this today so il show my ideal plan and be off! No entry fee, & massive reduction in travel costs, might at least give teams a chance. If your going to start introducing A teams just go the whole way IMO. The patch to keep us at 20 is doing nobody favours in the long run

Based on the final positions if you were to rejig things....
Iv included anyone who was in the A championship before & there were rumblings in Kilkenny about a revival & mons didnt die completely so added them

Premier (16)
Pats, Dundalk, Sligo, Derry, Shams, Cork, Limerick, Drogs, UCD, Bohs, Bray, Shels, Athlone, Longford, Waterford, Wexford

Northern (10)
Harps, Galway, Mons, Castlebar, Tullamore, Fanad,
Sligo A, Derry A, Dundalk A, Drogs A

Southern (10)
Cobh, Carlow, kilkenny, Tralee, Could you find a Tipp team?
Cork A, Limerick A, Pats A, Shams A

*the last A championship in 2011 had 14 A teams
Last in premier automatic down,
Highest non A team; North v South winner automatic promotion,
loser v Second last in premier

Easier said than done of course but at least all (bar tipp?) have participated in the 3 tiers of the LOI since in the last 3 years

Alternative... merge with the Irish league, but given they have proper structures im sure we would need to put the same in place. Plus never gonna happen for loss of European places

dreamers75

Thats not a bad idea.

ben.schlomo

P_1 wrote: »

As far as I know one club can't have 2 teams in the same division, so were Barcelona B to win the Segunda Division they get the trophy but don't get promoted. Also I'm fairly sure that both teams can't swap players too

Not 100% on Spain but in both Holland and Portugal players can move up and down between senior and amateur/b/youth teams during a season.

darragh16

overshoot wrote: »

Right being doing a bit of ranting on this today so il show my ideal plan and be off! No entry fee, & massive reduction in travel costs, might at least give teams a chance. If your going to start introducing A teams just go the whole way IMO. The patch to keep us at 20 is doing nobody favours in the long run

Based on the final positions if you were to rejig things....
Iv included anyone who was in the A championship before & there were rumblings in Kilkenny about a revival & mons didnt die completely so added them

Premier (16)
Pats, Dundalk, Sligo, Derry, Shams, Cork, Limerick, Drogs, UCD, Bohs, Bray, Shels, Athlone, Longford, Waterford, Wexford

Northern (10)
Harps, Galway, Mons, Castlebar, Tullamore, Fanad,
Sligo A, Derry A, Dundalk A, Drogs A

Southern (10)
Cobh, Carlow, kilkenny, Tralee, Could you find a Tipp team?
Cork A, Limerick A, Pats A, Shams A

*the last A championship in 2011 had 14 A teams
Last in premier automatic down,
Highest non A team; North v South winner automatic promotion,
loser v Second last in premier

Easier said than done of course but at least all (bar tipp?) have participated in the 3 tiers of the LOI since in the last 3 years

Alternative... merge with the Irish league, but given they have proper structures im sure we would need to put the same in place. Plus never gonna happen for loss of European places

The Northern system is actually really good in fairness to them and they don't have reserve teams to make up the numbers.

There should be an intermediate level in Ireland, whether it be below first division or below the premier division. I think that the LoI should link in with LSL, MSL and USL whereby winners of them divisions have the chance to progress further assuming they meet licencing criteria. Teams should be in the league on merit

Gavin "shels"

overshoot wrote: »

Right being doing a bit of ranting on this today so il show my ideal plan and be off! No entry fee, & massive reduction in travel costs, might at least give teams a chance. If your going to start introducing A teams just go the whole way IMO. The patch to keep us at 20 is doing nobody favours in the long run

Based on the final positions if you were to rejig things....
Iv included anyone who was in the A championship before & there were rumblings in Kilkenny about a revival & mons didnt die completely so added them

Premier (16)
Pats, Dundalk, Sligo, Derry, Shams, Cork, Limerick, Drogs, UCD, Bohs, Bray, Shels, Athlone, Longford, Waterford, Wexford

Northern (10)
Harps, Galway, Mons, Castlebar, Tullamore, Fanad,
Sligo A, Derry A, Dundalk A, Drogs A

Southern (10)
Cobh, Carlow, kilkenny, Tralee, Could you find a Tipp team?
Cork A, Limerick A, Pats A, Shams A

*the last A championship in 2011 had 14 A teams
Last in premier automatic down,
Highest non A team; North v South winner automatic promotion,
loser v Second last in premier

Easier said than done of course but at least all (bar tipp?) have participated in the 3 tiers of the LOI since in the last 3 years

Alternative... merge with the Irish league, but given they have proper structures im sure we would need to put the same in place. Plus never gonna happen for loss of European places

I'd be leaning towards Galway in the Premier over Wexford to start tbh.

Augmerson

darragh16 wrote: »

Yeah, the FAI should scrap the entry fee.

Yes but Delaney needs money to buy the lads cans and for new ties. It's a genuine concern.

civis_liberalis

Any attempts to substantially fix the structure of the LOI will never succeed long-term because the gap between the LOI and leagues outside of it.

The bigger LSL clubs for example, much prefer being big fish in a small pond.

The usual suspects in terms of nursery clubs have no ambitions to play at a higher level at adult grade, because they get the most out of the current system by continuing focusing on sending as many kids, as often as possible across the water.

Nobody ever hears about the SFAI (schoolboy body) yet they are a massive power within the FAI, who will let go of the stranglehold they have with their cold dead hands.

The same goes for the provincial and local bodies, who want to remain as the boss of their own little fiefdoms.

overshoot

Gavin shels wrote: »

I'd be leaning towards Galway in the Premier over Wexford to start tbh.

jesus no!!!
iv had enough of the city teams folding and re-emerging in D1 back at zero rather than sucking it up and taking the pain. Limerick, galway, cork and derry have a combined age equal to my bloody dog!
Plenty of clubs have kept trodding along and actually sucked it up, bohs right now, shams, mons & cobh of teams who have really done it in the past few years but stayed alive. Sligo cleared a lot of debt early 2000s as they languished mid D1

we supposedly need them but the longest cork franchise was 25 years! this repeated folding is what the league as a whole doesnt need! they should start at the bottom (remember cork & derry got to skip the A championship when their was a promotion system in place from it), make them operate as amateurs for 5 years and maybe then they will start to operate within their means and stop making the league a laughing stock

*i will however acknowledge the extreme efforts of GUST and FORAS to save their respective clubs

Omackeral

For the poster asking about a Tipp team on the southern region, how about Kildare County and their massive following come back on board?

overshoot

Omackeral wrote: »

For the poster asking about a Tipp team on the southern region, how about Kildare County and their massive following come back on board?

i hear sarcasm in this but it would balance my south division nicely which only has 9! :pac: lets just give them their real name though and call them newbridge.

anyway iv given 28 teams that were all there in the last 3 years! 3 leagues we cant provide 2 at present! of course the proposal could weaken the second tier but the idea is to make it more accessible to other clubs!

i could always allow mervue and salthill in to get the even 30 but they might earn promotion to the main league again

shanec1928

overshoot wrote: »

jesus no!!!
iv had enough of the city teams folding and re-emerging in D1 back at zero rather than sucking it up and taking the pain. Limerick, galway, cork and derry have a combined age equal to my bloody dog!
Plenty of clubs have kept trodding along and actually sucked it up, bohs right now, shams, mons & cobh of teams who have really done it in the past few years but stayed alive. Sligo cleared a lot of debt early 2000s as they languished mid D1

we supposedly need them but the longest cork franchise was 25 years! this repeated folding is what the league as a whole doesnt need! they should start at the bottom (remember cork & derry got to skip the A championship when their was a promotion system in place from it), make them operate as amateurs for 5 years and maybe then they will start to operate within their means and stop making the league a laughing stock

*i will however acknowledge the extreme efforts of GUST and FORAS to save their respective clubs

by letting the club fold...

ben.schlomo

shanec1928 wrote: »

by letting the club fold...

Always wonder why ill informed people bother commenting on things they clearly fail to grasp.

Augmerson

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Always wonder why ill informed people bother commenting on things they clearly fail to grasp.

Thinly veiled you are stupid shut up post.

Lawrence1895

In terms of gate money, why not. I suppose, they will bring a decent away crowd.

Vision of Disorder

I would much prefer to see a new club (or several of them) entering the First Division than Shamrock Rovers B. That said I much rather the division have eight teams including Shamrock Rovers B than try and function with just seven.

When people are proposing alternatives though it would be helpful if they didn't include makey-uppy fantasy clubs to save the league (a la the return of Kilkenny/Monaghan/whomever).

I'd much prefer to have a league set up akin to Scotland or something like that in terms of numbers but let us not delude ourselves that there's dozens of clubs out there chomping at the bit to play senior ball. That's just not the reality of the situation. If Tralee and Carlow hadn't been shunted aside last time round we might be in a better place now. Or they might have gone the way of Fingal too!

overshoot

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Always wonder why ill informed people bother commenting on things they clearly fail to grasp.

as much as i get all the back storey does it matter? does it reflect well on the league that the combined total age of clubs in cork, limerick, galway & derry is about 15? does it look well that this carry on is allowed?

EPL posters are blasted for offering franchise Fcs, but if all they hear is x league of ireland team has been dissolved whats the point in showing an interest? the LOI has issues beyond the FAI

i basically threw up the 2011 league structure minus division one... kilkenny at least had rumours of a revival a few years ago, mons still exist just not at senior level, they could have gone the way of cobh if they had the option and im sorry to those i offended for throwing in 1 new team! The others at least did show an interest in playing at that level and may do again.

would it work, christ knows but im bored just blaming the FAI, at least shout alternatives as the current system will lead us back to one division soon enough

Gavin "shels"

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I would much prefer to see a new club (or several of them) entering the First Division than Shamrock Rovers B

What sane Board of Management would join the LoI?

overshoot wrote: »

i basically threw up the 2011 league structure minus division one... kilkenny at least had rumours of a revival a few years ago,

Something that always stays with me is in Kilkenny for our first trip there in 2007 we asked a group of kids playing football/wearing Man Utd, etc... gear where Buckley Park was, they had never heard of it and looked at us like we had 10 heads. Turns out we were 5 mins down the road (for anyone who hasn't been to Buckley Park it's at the back of a corn field basically).

born2bwild

Augmerson wrote: »

Thinly veiled you are stupid shut up post.

If you read this post like Yoda it has a different meaning.

Captain Havoc

The rumors of Kilkenny City's return was a few fans setting up a facebook page, definitely a story with no solid foundation.

dreamers75

Dont get Paul Lennons point

http://www.thestar.ie/star/a-rovers-team-in-the-first-division-would-be-a-sham-36753/

Surely any decent under 19s player will stay in the premier if hes decent. Plus with the under 15/17 elite leagues in the offing they would be best off staying where they are.