Why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?

Sam Kade · 23-11-2013 01:12AM

cros13 wrote: »

Yup... but properly trained. My driving instructor used to run the garda driving school and I did my advanced driver training in Germany.

It's not rocket science on a 3+ lane:

Lane 1 - driving lane | Lane 2 - overtaking lane | Lane 3 - 2nd overtaking lane

The best driver in Ireland

I am sure you make mistakes and have taken a few chances while driving like any driver unless you are a robot and programmed to make no mistakes.

cros13 · 23-11-2013 01:21AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

The best driver in Ireland I am sure you make mistakes and have taken a few chances while driving like any driver unless you are a robot and programmed to make no mistakes.

The next post I admitted to some faults I made in the video (before anyone pointed them out). I'm sure there are better drivers in Ireland. My dad is one (he's had a licence in 14 of the 15 categories).

Yeah, I make mistakes, and I sometimes deliberately go against some part of my training. I still stick to the rules far more than the usual.

But I'm trained. I care about my standard of driving. When I make a mistake I can recognise that I've done so and learn from it. One of the reasons I have the camera is as a tool to improve my own driving. I aspire to driving to a better standard than I do now.

Wipe the smirk off your face and go look in the mirror.

RDM_83 again · 23-11-2013 01:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Always interesting to have some stats / empirical data to back up an argument.

Out of curiosity (not doubting you) where did you get the info?

I happen to think Ireland is pretty good in comparison to the rest of the world to be honest with you

I just grabbed from the roads death list on wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate#cite_note-WHO2013-1
Its WHO data used and yes Ireland is pretty near the top

cros13 wrote: »

The death rate is deceptive. In an incident involving two modern cars you face little chance of dying in an accident except at high speed. At 240km/h on the Autobahn a bump in the road that's imperceptible at 120km/h can literally bounce your car into another lane.

I'd say the minor accident rate would be more telling. But I'd also suspect those numbers would be underreported in Ireland as many people would handle settlements person to person and not inform their insurance (which is where those statistics usually come from).

Vs. both Germany and the UK, Irish drivers are very poorly trained. Many of them have never even had a driving test, driving without a valid license is shockingly common and a tiny minority are trained at any speed above 60km/h or at night (who either seek out advanced training or passed their test in another country).

I'd be in favor of having everyone re-test on every 10 year license renewal with both a motorway and a night test.

Ok my point is that the Germans have much better roads and apparently are much better drivers in general and are trained to a higher standard.

Road fatalities are an easy metric of this but I do understand your issue, however I think it is ok to use road death figures, since the MOST important part of driving is to be safe nothing else should come close to it in priority.

The difference between Ireland and German fatality rates is small, much smaller than the difference in fatalities in Germany and the UK.

Your argument might make sense if your arguing that the increased speeds on German roads lead to it having a higher rate of fatalities than it should though

dutcher · 23-11-2013 01:29AM

I'm on the provisional two years driving motor ways and what not doing 500KM a week and some of the drivers on the road are absolutely horrendous.

Some people just shouldn't be on the road full stop.

cros13 · 23-11-2013 01:29AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Road fatalities are an easy metric of this but I do understand your issue, however I think it is ok to use road death figures, since the MOST important part of driving is to be safe nothing else should come close to it in priority.

The difference between Ireland and German fatality rates is small, much smaller than the difference in fatalities in Germany and the UK.

Your argument might make sense if your arguing that the increased speeds on German roads lead to it having a higher rate of fatalities than it should though

Yup that's my argument. I'd say given our roads/rules (motorways in Ireland are better than the UK, regional roads worse, traffic levels lower, dipped headlamps in daytime more common, older average age of vehicle), we should be somewhere 'round the UK's figure.

FunLover18 · 23-11-2013 01:38AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's probably something to do with the fact that a grand total of ZERO Irish drivers have had any motorway training whatsoever.

We are expected to learn these rules by some kind of osmosis!

Motorway or dual carriageway driving isn't even on the driving test (unless something's changed recently).

There's really not much point in ranting about people's lack of knowledge when there was never any formal system in place to give them that knowledge in the first place.

There's actually this book, it was written a long, long time ago ... The Rules of the Road

cros13 · 23-11-2013 01:40AM

FunLover18 wrote: »

There's actually this weird thing called the theory test, which less than half of licenced drivers had to do.[/I]

There I fixed that for you. Agree with you anyway.... but the current theory test is very basic, the full extent of the rules of the road book is not covered in the test.
On some issues that I've had fun arguments with some friends about we've had to go into the road traffic act and amendments + SIs to settle some issues.

Very geeky arguments.... drawing scenarios on whiteboards and everything.

darlett · 23-11-2013 01:49AM

Why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?

Well which nationality impresses you with their lane using skills and we can compare and contrast.

Personally I've spend the best part of year living, working and driving in Indonesia. It is f u c k i n g insane in the membrane. I think many Asian countries are the same. I've never driven in Africa but I m sure the mayhem might be a recurrent theme. Mexico? Nutzarilla.

But no. Lets have a go at ze Irish ya.

FunLover18 · 23-11-2013 01:50AM

cros13 wrote: »

There I fixed that for you. And the current theory test is very basic, the full extent of the rules of the road book is not covered in the test.
On some issues that I've had fun arguments with some friends about we've had to go into the road traffic act and amendments + SIs to settle some issues.

True, and thank you for correcting me. I've edited out the theory test bit entirely, because people shouldn't need an exam incentive to learn the rules of the road.

I'm a middle lane driver myself

but only because I actually find the driving lane constantly jammed with slow drivers who don't even come close to speed limit (I know it's not a target). As mentioned by a previous poster, people not getting into their lane in time is also a big factor.

Really? What have you had to settle via those channels?

cros13 · 23-11-2013 01:52AM

darlett wrote: »

Why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?

Well which nationality impresses you with their lane using skills and we can compare and contrast.

Personally I've spend the best part of year living, working and driving in Indonesia. It is f u c k i n g insane in the membrane. I think many Asian countries are the same. I've never driven in Africa but I m sure the mayhem might be a recurrent theme. Mexico? Nutzarilla.

But no. Lets have a go at ze Irish ya.

I've been and driven plenty of places. My top 3 scariest were Shanghai, New Delhi and Hanoi in that order (I'd like to add that for two of those I had to do a local driving test!). All that says is lack of training is a common problem.

If you want good examples: Finland & Germany.

PizzamanIRL · 23-11-2013 02:15AM

That's a very large brush that you're using to paint us all with.

Nadser · 23-11-2013 02:16AM

dutcher wrote: »

I'm on the provisional two years driving motor ways and what not doing 500KM a week and some of the drivers on the road are absolutely horrendous.

Some people just shouldn't be on the road full stop.

Like yourself who shouldn't be driving on a motorway without a full licence!

The_Gatsby · 23-11-2013 02:58AM

You left your indicator on at 1:56

MadsL · 23-11-2013 08:07AM

I used to think Irish drivers were crap. Then I moved to New Mexico - mother of god...:eek:

diomed · 23-11-2013 08:22AM

Most impressive are the drivers who come from the outside lane, cross the middle lane, cross the driving lane, and head up the off ramp, all without indicating, in one seamless move.

LordSutch · 23-11-2013 08:41AM

Pen.Island wrote: »

Question, if the cars in the overtaking lane are doing the speed limit, are they still in the wrong?

Sorry Pen.Island, but 'Yes', they are wrong, bloody annoying, and dangerous.

I remember well an uncle of mine arguing about this with my Dad donkeys years ago. My Dad suggesting to him that it was not his job to act as an 'amateur motorway cop', just because he deemed that nothing should get past him!

Drivers may need to get past for many good reasons, including a dash to the hospital with a pregnant wife.

The overtaking lane is just that (an overtaking lane), heavy rush hour traffic aside, and its not our job to police the outside/overtaking lane, so I say please let 'em past . . . . .

deisedude · 23-11-2013 09:40AM

The thing that annoys me most are fcukers that don't know which lane to use at a roundabout. Only 2 lanes to choose from and retards still get it wrong. I think everyone should be remade take their theory test every 5 years because most people don't remember the most basic rules of the road from what i can see

Teyla Emmagan · 23-11-2013 09:44AM

Judging by what I've learnt on this thread I'm one if those people who don't know how to drive on a motorway. I've often overtaken on the m50 using the left hand lane..

Quazzie · 23-11-2013 09:49AM

Why were you breaking the law and undertaking in the video OP?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-11-2013 09:52AM

realies wrote: »

Because we don't have a proper Garda traffic corps just dedicated to traffic, No fault of the Garda I may add.

Rubbish, there is a dedicated traffic corps but there would be a need for thousands of patrol cars to combat the ignorant irish driver. The biggest majority of those driving in the incorrect lane are middle aged and older idiots who actually consider themselves good and safe drivers as they never exceed the speed limit yet are completely devoid of any road manners. Most done their driving test over 30 years ago when there was a quarter of the traffic on the roads and have never adapted to take into account other road users. My mum is a classic example, I've given up trying to explain to her all her driving faults. She uses the same excuse every time "the driver tester told me I was a very good and conscientious driver when I passed my test"....over 30 feckin years ago!!!!

SpaceTime · 23-11-2013 09:52AM

cros13 wrote: »

What's an mph? Wikipedia hints that it may be some kind of Americo-Liberian unit. /s

You mean 100km/h?

Just to make you feel old, I'd be surprised if anyone 30 or under got their driver's license before the country was fully metricated. I'm 28 next month and I remember those units as some weird thing my dad used to use.

They changed 8 years ago...

Qualitymark · 23-11-2013 10:04AM

dutcher wrote: »

I'm on the provisional two years driving motor ways and what not doing 500KM a week.

Dutcher, why are you still on a provisional licence if you're driving 500km a week? And surely someone on a provisional licence isn't allowed on motorways? (And indeed, surely not allowed to drive without a qualified driver supervising?)

The solution to the misuse of the lanes on Irish motorways might be to gradually change the colour of the overtaking1 and overtaking2 lanes as the roads are resurfaced. If Overtaking1 lane were green and Overtaking2 were red, and there were an ad campaign saying "Only overtake on the green surface" and so on, people would learn. Plus a few garda stops to instruct drivers.

As a driver in the city, the lack of indicating makes me despair. The pure selfishness of someone who drives to the top of a turn-right-or-straight-ahead lane and sits there without indicating, only to indicate as soon as the lights change, is indescribable. You think "Oh, great, he's going ahead" and drive up behind the person, only to be stuck there for five minutes because he hasn't indicated, and the right-turn lights allow only one car through.

Not to mention people who do the same in traffic, suddenly darting leftwards with no warning, and indicating in mid-turn. These unthinking people are the motorised equivalent of the parents who stick their pram out from the pavement to indicate that they want to cross (or perhaps in an attempt at child sacrifice).

As a cyclist, which I am most of the time, the non-indicators are particularly deadly - they suddenly spot a parking place and swerve in, leaving you hauling on the brakes and hoping not to hit a wet manhole cover and skid into them…

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-11-2013 10:09AM

Quazzie wrote: »

Why were you breaking the law and undertaking in the video OP?

You see you are another example of those who think they know the traffic laws and regulations but don't.

If you are travelling at 100kmph in the inner left lane and you come up behind a car in the middle lane doing 80kmph and pass it, you are NOT breaking the law, they are. You are breaking the law if you change lane to pass on the inside of another vehicle (that isn't turning right), ie you were in the middle/right lane and moved into the left lane to pass another slower moving car.

What would you do in a similar situation on a dual carriageway? Sit at the same speed as the car in the right lane and hold up everything else behind you? You are then just as bad and ignorant as the driver hogging the outer lane.

diomed · 23-11-2013 10:11AM

Millions of drivers are in line for surprise £100 fines on Friday after hogging the middle motorway lane or tailgating in 'careless driving' offences

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391203/Millions-motorists-face-fined-range-sweeping-new-police-powers-tackle-careless-drivers.html

Quazzie · 23-11-2013 10:15AM

CJC999 wrote: »

You see you are another example of those who think they know the traffic laws and regulations but don't.

If you are travelling at 100kmph in the inner left lane and you approach a car in the middle lane doing 80kmph and pass it, you are NOT breaking the law, they are, you only break the law if you change lane to pass on the inside of another vehicle (that isn't turning right)

You're wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undertaking_(driving)

The Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways with some exceptions (rule 268): "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake".

Rule 268 only applies to congested traffic.

Rule 268:Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

You really should learn the rules of the road and driver properly before you cause an accident.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-11-2013 10:24AM

Quazzie wrote: »

You're wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undertaking_(driving)

Rule 268 only applies to congested traffic.

You really should learn the rules of the road and driver properly before you cause an accident.

Rather than point out something you found on Wikipedia, why don't you show me the actual law where it says that a person driving within the speed limit is committing an offence if they pass another car which is travelling in the outer lane at a slower speed and where the first driver never changed lane to do so!

And finally, the Highway Code is a Uk document, in case you didn't realise, this isn't the UK.

Quazzie · 23-11-2013 10:41AM

CJC999 wrote: »

Rather than point out something you found on Wikipedia, why don't you show me the actual law where it says that a person driving within the speed limit is committing an offence if they pass another car which is travelling in the outer lane at a slower speed and where the first driver never changed lane to do so!

And finally, the Highway Code is a Uk document, in case you didn't realise, this isn't the UK.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-of-the-road-eng.pdf

Page 54

You must not overtake when
You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian
signals.
A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
You are approaching a junction.
You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back
bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when
traffic is moving at normal speed.

Seriously. Maybe consider giving the rest of the PDF a read too and learn the rules of the road.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-11-2013 01:17PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's probably something to do with the fact that a grand total of ZERO Irish drivers have had any motorway training whatsoever.

We are expected to learn these rules by some kind of osmosis!

Motorway or dual carriageway driving isn't even on the driving test (unless something's changed recently).

There's really not much point in ranting about people's lack of knowledge when there was never any formal system in place to give them that knowledge in the first place.

You signed off to say you understand the rules before you are even given a provisional license or permit.

There are some very, very basic rules in driving anyone who doesn't understand them should not be in control of a machine that until recently was the leading cause of preventable death from 14 to 40 year olds. ( or was it 4 to 40 ?? )

You should be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

Yield to the bigger road / traffic to the right / traffic already in the lane or junction you are moving too.

Keep left unless overtaking.

Use indicators when changing lane or direction.

Obey speed limits.

Obey the line nearest you , don't cross solid white lines.

There is nothing new about driving on motorways, the only difference is that an idiot can cause a big pile up. And this is why learners must not use motorways. Look abroad pileups involving dozens of vehicles happen, people can burn to death trapped in pileups. Not a nice way to go.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-11-2013 01:23PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Ireland has an only very slightly higher death rate (especially when you consider all our sub-standard rural roads) at 4.7/100,000 (IE) to 4.4/100,000 (DE)

Sometimes the safest junctions are the ones that look most dangerous because people take more care.

If some could digup stats on our lane occupancy levels or hourly throughput for lanes / junctions / roundabouts I'd be fairly sure they are lower than our overseas cousins. And considering the RSA speed surveys which shows we love to speed my guess is that we waste more time being careful at junctions because of muppets.

At roundabouts in this country I just ignore indicators and wait until I see which way the wheels point. In England I can usually merge based on what other drivers indicate.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-11-2013 01:29PM

dodderangler wrote: »

I see artic drivers in morning on m50 on their phones. Wouldn't do it in a car never mind a 10 ton truck maybe more.
Idiots. At even 80kmh a artic would leave a jeep to dust at full impact

Just to be clear jeeps don't offer any extra protection to the occupants than other cars in the same price bracket. Jeeps are only safer because more expensive cars are safer.

But they are up to six times more dangerous to occupants of other cars they are in collision with.

Look at the RSA free speed surveys. Then work out the extra stopping distance or extra kinetic energy the average HGV has. Then wonder again at our lax enforcement.

The extension of the HGV motorway speed to 90Kmh and the removal of 30Kmh zones in the city almost smack of increasing the speed limit to match the traffic than enforcing the law :mad:

Why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?

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