Why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?

cros13

It's annoyed the hell out of me for a while, particularly on the N7 and M50.

What's so hard?

Motoring forum gave up complaining on this topic a long time ago. So I'd like to hear from a broader audience like AH.

I made a video to illustrate the problem (only examples I could find on my SD).
Sorry for the video glitches... the SD card was corrupt.

wretcheddomain

cros13 wrote: »

Sorry for the video glitches... the SD card was corrupt.

Why can't Irish drivers use SD cards properly?

brandon_flowers

Because everyone does their driving test in a housing estate.

No Pants

cros13 wrote: »

IMotoring forum gave up complaining on this topic a long time ago.

Seriously?

BMJD

I blame the foreigners

Sunnyisland

Because we don't have a proper Garda traffic corps just dedicated to traffic, No fault of the Garda I may add.

Nabber

There is a lane beside me that lets me skip two traffic light, just got to be careful, it's a one way lane, I'm usually heading in the wrong direction.

But in my defense, I'm Irish.

lucky333

It's just laziness and rudeness

If only it were lanes that Irish drivers could not use properly! How about roundabouts and traffic lights.

UnhappywithBOI

Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'... but it's only a 'penny for your thoughts'? Where's that extra penny going to?

Why does a round pizza come in a square box?

Capt'n Midnight

Many reasons

Bad road marking , in far too many cases when a lane splits into to the traffic defaults to the overtaking lane

Drivers either don't know or don't care about keeping left.


And the big one is zero enforcement of the keep left rule.


They upgraded the M50 by adding a third lane in either direction. And they could have saved most of that billion euro but enforcing a strict "keep left unless overtaking" rule and allowing the hard shoulder to be used when traffic slows down to 60Kph like they do in parts of the UK.


Again that was a billion euro spent on one road to compensate for Irish drivers having no lane discipline. :mad:

Sam Kade

Are you Irish op?

cros13

Sam Kade wrote: »

Are you Irish op?

Yup... but properly trained. My driving instructor used to run the garda driving school and I did my advanced driver training in Germany.

It's not rocket science on a 3+ lane:

Lane 1 - driving lane | Lane 2 - overtaking lane | Lane 3 - 2nd overtaking lane

Mint Sauce

In before fast/slow/driving/overtaking lane debate.

Pen.Island

What is wrong with the M50 bit?

The car is in the exit lane? Better to be in the exit lane you're exiting than possibly trying to scoot across cars when it comes to your exit.

cros13

Pen.Island wrote: »

What is wrong with the M50 bit?

The car is in the exit lane? Better to be in the exit lane you're exiting than possibly trying to scoot across cars when it comes to your exit.

Not my finest examples, my own driving wasn't faultless. I should have kept more room between me and that focus and in the N7 clip I changed lanes a bit... quick.

On the M50 clip almost all the cars are in the overtaking even when the driving lane is free. They should only be in that lane while there is slower traffic in the driving lane.

It resulted in that idiot crossing the driving lane to reach the N4 exit. But I've seen accidents caused in the past, even by other traffic trying to pass legally.

Pen.Island

cros13 wrote: »

Not my finest examples, my own driving wasn't faultless. I should have kept more room between me and that focus and in the N7 clip I changed lanes a bit... quick.

On the M50 clip almost all the cars are in the overtaking even when the driving lane is free. They should only be in that lane while there is slower traffic in the driving lane.

It resulted in that idiot crossing the driving lane to reach the N4 exit.

I know the right hand lane is for overtaking on a motorway, but is it the same for the M50? The speed limit is only 100kph. When I come off the M4 onto the M4 I go into the right furthest lane and go the speed limit as you have to be in the right lane to exit for the M50. Are you saying I'm in the wrong?

cros13

Pen.Island wrote: »

I know the right hand lane is for overtaking on a motorway, but is it the same for the M50? The speed limit is only 100kph. When I come off the M4 onto the M4 I go into the right furthest lane and go the speed limit as you have to be in the right lane to exit for the M50. Are you saying I'm in the wrong?

Lane 1 - driving lane | Lane 2 - overtaking lane | Lane 3 - 2nd overtaking lane

The driving lane is the leftmost lane of the mainline M50

On the N4 towards Dublin, to join the M50 (S) you need to be in the 2nd overtaking before the junction as it is the correct lane for your destination (as indicated by the overhead signs, i.e. don't move into lane 3 until it's signposted as the M50 (South) lane).
But for most of the length of the three-lane N4 the leftmost lane beside the bus lane is the correct driving lane. The speed you are doing doesn't matter, if it's unoccupied you should be in the driving lane.
If you are in lane 3 and someone wants to overtake you they can't legally do that in lane 1 or lane 2. The exception is the inter-junction lanes on the M50, where you can legally undertake traffic on the mainline as shown in the video.
However if you are in that lane you need to be either merging or exiting at the next junction. In that case I was going from the N7 junction to the N4 so I didn't need to join the mainline M50.

Sheldons Brain

Irish drivers can drive on lanes, it is roads that confuse them.

Duck's hoop

In the main, they're dumb, ignorant, selfish swamp donkeys who could not give a fig for anything or anybody other than themselves.

As well as the almost total disregard for lane etiquette, I'm sure if you took the mirrors off cars, many of these dolts wouldn't notice.

This evening on the M50 south, turning off for the N7, in an effort to save 5 minutes and get one over on all the 'suckers' waiting their turn, dozens of these fūckers were driving to the head of the queue and stopping dead at the exit in the driving lane.

Who gives a shìt about anybody else? Or pile ups? Just as long as they're getting one over on the idiots following the rules.

cros13

Duck's hoop wrote: »

This evening on the M50 south, turning off for the N7, in an effort to save 5 minutes and get one over on all the 'suckers' waiting their turn, dozens of these fūckers were driving to the head of the queue and stopping dead at the exit in the driving lane.

I've seen that fairly often, particularly at the N7 and N4 exits on the northbound M50 at rush hour.

I think it's both lack of training and lack of forethought more than malice. But it is definitely dangerous.

The reason I used clips from this screwed up SD was that I had recorded an entire 1500km+ driving trip from Dublin to Berlin and I would have liked to have included some clips from the Autobahn.
Unfortunately all I ended up with was 20 minutes of real footage from Ireland and the UK and 30 minutes of the inter-carriage door on the chunnel.
I can safely do 240km/h on sections of the Autobahn in large part because the lane discipline is so good. They treat the rules of the road like they were handed down from the driving gods and are better off for it.

Muckit

If you think Irish drivers are bad, try driving in Italy!

NuckingFacker

Happily, my car has both a steering wheel and an accelerator. I drive around the fcukers and carry on my way.

Elmer Blooker

why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?
Have you ever been in Italy? Wait a minute, have you ever been in Sicily?

Pen.Island

Oh yeah it grinds my gears cars skipping the queues for the exit for the N4 >:(

MadYaker

Its only the muck savages that have never seen a 4 lane road before that cause these problems.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Yup... but properly trained. My driving instructor used to run the garda driving school and I did my advanced driver training in Germany.

It's not rocket science on a 3+ lane:

Lane 1 - driving lane | Lane 2 - overtaking lane | Lane 3 - 2nd overtaking lane

Must confess to not knowing that, for some reason I thought the middle lane was to be used the same as Lane 1.

Oh well, God bless the internet where I can learn from more enlightened people such as your good self (not being sarcastic).

Would be good to know seeing as I'm now living in the UK!

darkpagandeath

I love when your on a slip road going to merge with the m50 for example people in the driving lane speed up to not let you out. People in the overtaking lane move to the driving lane to not let you merge . People seem really not to like someone getting onto the motorway in front of them they never slow down to let you merge ... or my personal favourite people in the driving lane speeding up just enough so your side by side. you cant merge so you have to slow down to let them pass (as you would brake the speed limit to get in front of them) and so do the other people in the merging lane. Pretty sure dangerous driving is illegal does not seem to be enforced though.

mfceiling

Duck's hoop wrote: »

In the main, they're dumb, ignorant, selfish swamp donkeys who could not give a fig for anything or anybody other than themselves.

As well as the almost total disregard for lane etiquette, I'm sure if you took the mirrors off cars, many of these dolts wouldn't notice.

This evening on the M50 south, turning off for the N7, in an effort to save 5 minutes and get one over on all the 'suckers' waiting their turn, dozens of these fūckers were driving to the head of the queue and stopping dead at the exit in the driving lane.

Who gives a shìt about anybody else? Or pile ups? Just as long as they're getting one over on the idiots following the rules.

While i hate these c*nts, the bigger idiots are the f*ckwits who let them in. I've blocked c*nts like that before from getting in...one c*nt gets the window down to roar....too late...i'd the window down and told him to get to the back of the f*cking queue and if he wanted i'd kick him back there personally. Nice red face on the prick then.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Must confess to not knowing that, for some reason I thought the middle lane was to be used the same as Lane 1.

Oh well, God bless the internet where I can learn from more enlightened people such as your good self (not being sarcastic).

Would be good to know seeing as I'm now living in the UK!

You can stay in lane 2 on a three lane in Ireland when there is slower traffic in the driving lane. In practice you need to look ahead on the road, judge the speed of the next vehicle in the driving lane, and if they are going a good bit slower stay in lane 2 to pass them.

The main differences (AFAIR) between Ireland and the UK are the specifics of the yellow box rule (In the UK you can't enter a yellow box at all unless there is space on the other side and you can cross it without stopping or your exit of the junction is clear. In Ireland you can enter the yellow box at a junction if you are turning right (into the road with the yellow box) AND you will not block the intervening driving lane by doing so) and indicating on the motorway (in Ireland you must indicate all lane changes and in the UK *I think* you don't have to indicate when returning to the driving lane)

There are all sorts of little differences. Like in Germany you are allowed undertake in traffic if the person in the overtaking lane is doing 60km/h or less and you are passing them at equal to or less than 20 km/h more than their speed.
In Ireland the law says undertaking is allowed "in slow-moving queues" without a legal definition of "slow-moving" or "queues". That kind of legal wooliness is common in Irish law.

GreeBo

Muckit wrote: »

If you think Irish drivers are bad, try driving in Italy!

At least they know what lane to be in.
If you had a bad experience it's probably because you were in the wrong lane...

Pen.Island

Question, if the cars in the overtaking lane are doing the speed limit, are they still in the wrong? In my mind they would not. Also is it an unwritten rule for the M50 or is it part of motorway ettiquette?

darced

This post has been deleted.

cros13

mfceiling wrote: »

While i hate these c*nts, the bigger idiots are the f*ckwits who let them in. I've blocked c*nts like that before from getting in...one c*nt gets the window down to roar....too late...i'd the window down and told him to get to the back of the f*cking queue and if he wanted i'd kick him back there personally. Nice red face on the prick then.

TBH the best thing for all concerned is letting them in. You might end up getting where you are going a few minutes later but you could prevent that idiot causing an accident.

Capt'n Midnight

Muckit wrote: »

If you think Irish drivers are bad, try driving in Italy!

Yes.

No hard shoulders and yeah they'll do double the limit coming up to junctions, but everyone pulls in instantly after overtaking.

Easier to overtake someone there on a two lane carriageway than it is here on the three lane M50 where I drive a lot in the inside lane because I can bail out into the hard shoulder if some muppet tries to dive into the gap in front of me.

Cienciano

Pass middle laners on the left. (ok, i know you're not supposed to technically)
I drive the m50 every day, and the left lane is normally almost empty.

cros13

Pen.Island wrote: »

Question, if the cars in the overtaking lane are doing the speed limit, are they still in the wrong? In my mind they would not. Also is it an unwritten rule for the M50 or is it part of motorway ettiquette?

Yes, definitely in the wrong, It's the Guard's job to enforce the speed limit. Good lane discipline is one of the reasons that even with no speed limit the rate of accidents on the Autobahn is kept to acceptable levels.
If you are in the wrong lane on the Autobahn the police WILL pull you over and ticket you or even arrest you if they judge that your bad driving endangered others.

Speed in itself isn't a problem. It's how appropriate your speed is to road type, road conditions, traffic levels and your relative speed to other traffic.
On the Autobahn sections of normally unlimited speed road are signposted for a 100/120/130 speed limit "in the wet" when the road surface/layout would merit that limit. And everyone keeps to those limits without exception.

Pen.Island

cros13 wrote: »

Yes, definitely in the wrong, It's the Guard's job to enforce the speed limit. Good lane discipline is one of the reasons that even with no speed limit the rate of accidents on the Autobahn is kept to acceptable levels.
If you are in the wrong lane on the Autobahn the police WILL pull you over and ticket you or even arrest you if they judge that your bad driving endangered others.

So you are allowed to break the speed limit in the overtaking lane?

cros13

Pen.Island wrote: »

So you are allowed to break the speed limit in the overtaking lane?

No.... the speed limit is the speed limit. But you should also be in the correct lane (also a penalty point offence BTW).

Much of the Autobahn has no speed limit and people can.... and do go 240km/h+, usually safely.

The section of road/conditions need to be perfect. You need a good car in excellent repair and designed to operate at that kind of speed. And ideally you need to be a well-trained well-practised driver.

cros13

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope, no bike camera. The speed is slightly deceptive because of the angle ( I swear )

SpaceTime

It's probably something to do with the fact that a grand total of ZERO Irish drivers have had any motorway training whatsoever.

We are expected to learn these rules by some kind of osmosis!

Motorway or dual carriageway driving isn't even on the driving test (unless something's changed recently).

There's really not much point in ranting about people's lack of knowledge when there was never any formal system in place to give them that knowledge in the first place.

Pen.Island

Well if you can't go over the speed limit on the M50, then the majority of drivers I'd assume in the right lane are going 60mph if possible. 60mph is nothing.

anncoates

Worst one is cunts that have to stay in the overtaking lane until about one kilometre before their exit and then veer crazily through the lanes to make it.

Zonn

BMJD wrote: »

I blame the foreigners

I am a foreigner and my driving is so good I got 100% on the theory test in Ireland which is too easy, i got my full license on the first attempt. Prior to that I had passed my theory and road test in my country of origin without any problems. The real problem in Ireland is the training process is relaxed. Many irish natives (not all) learn how to move the car not how to drive. This does not cover professional drivers who seem to have more of a real test. Stop throwing the foreigner card on the table, driving regulations just need to be tighter here. 12 compulsory lessons for a first time driver is too little. If it was 30 hours minimum before a road test maybe you would be a good driver and not blaming foreigners.

cros13

Pen.Island wrote: »

Well if you can't go over the speed limit on the M50, then the majority of drivers I'd assume in the right lane are going 60mph if possible. 60mph is nothing.

What's an mph? Wikipedia hints that it may be some kind of Americo-Liberian unit. /s

You mean 100km/h?

Just to make you feel old, I'd be surprised if anyone 30 or under got their driver's license before the country was fully metricated. I'm 28 next month and I remember those units as some weird thing my dad used to use.

Wailin

MadYaker wrote: »

Its only the muck savages that have never seen a 4 lane road before that cause these problems.

Bollocks. I'm a "muck savage" and drive on a motorway or 3 lane carraigeway better than most "city folk" or Jackeens. The amount of ignorant dopes I come across on the M50 and M7/M9 is incredible. On the M50 the inner left lane is practically unused when not busy with drivers hogging the middle lane and undertaking, overtaking like imbeciles!

mfceiling

cros13 wrote: »

TBH the best thing for all concerned is letting them in. You might end up getting where you are going a few minutes later but you could prevent that idiot causing an accident.

I know....but the ones who drive up to the head of the queue, then stop with their indicator on and expect to cut in...fcuk right off

cros13

Wailin wrote: »

Bollocks. I'm a "muck savage" and drive on a motorway or 3 lane carraigeway better than most "city folk" or Jackeens. The amount of ignorant dopes I come across on the M50 and M7/M9 is incredible. On the M50 the inner left lane is practically unused when not busy with drivers hogging the middle lane and undertaking, overtaking like imbeciles!

I'm a "muck savage" too BTW ... well kinda... I've lived in cities half my life so now I'm what South Park would called "confused"

Zonn

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Irish drivers can drive on lanes, it is roads that confuse them.

I think Anyone confused by roads is a hazard to other road users.

Pen.Island

cros13 wrote: »

What's an mph? Wikipedia hints that it may be some kind of Americo-Liberian unit. /s

You mean 100km/h?

Just to make you feel old, I'd be surprised if anyone 30 or under got their driver's license before the country was fully metricated. I'm 28 next month and I remember those units as some weird thing my dad used to use.

My cars main unit is in MPH so that's what I look at! Also I prefer using MPH, I get a better representation of speed than KM.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

You can stay in lane 2 on a three lane in Ireland when there is slower traffic in the driving lane. In practice you need to look ahead on the road, judge the speed of the next vehicle in the driving lane, and if they are going a good bit slower stay in lane 2 to pass them.

The main differences (AFAIR) between Ireland and the UK are the specifics of the yellow box rule (In the UK you can't enter a yellow box at all unless there is space on the other side and you can cross it without stopping or your exit of the junction is clear. In Ireland you can enter the yellow box at a junction if you are turning right (into the road with the yellow box) AND you will not block the intervening driving lane by doing so) and indicating on the motorway (in Ireland you must indicate all lane changes and in the UK *I think* you don't have to indicate when returning to the driving lane)

There are all sorts of little differences. Like in Germany you are allowed undertake in traffic if the person in the overtaking lane is doing 60km/h or less and you are passing them at equal to or less than 20 km/h more than their speed.
In Ireland the law says undertaking is allowed "in slow-moving queues" without a legal definition of "slow-moving" or "queues". That kind of legal wooliness is common in Irish law.

That would explain a LOT of the driving without indicating I've seen since moving to the UK. NOBODY seems to indicate as much on roundabouts and things. Also I think they have a different rule if you're coming up to a standard 4-exit roundabout.

In Ireland I always thought you stay in the left lane if taking the first or 2nd exits and the right hand lane if you're taking the last exit.

I think in the UK it seems to be stay in the left lane for the 1st exit and the right lane for the 3rd exit and either/or if you're taking the 2nd exit