Why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?

Pen.Island · 22-11-2013 11:35PM

Question, if the cars in the overtaking lane are doing the speed limit, are they still in the wrong? In my mind they would not. Also is it an unwritten rule for the M50 or is it part of motorway ettiquette?

darced · 22-11-2013 11:37PM

This post has been deleted.

cros13 · 22-11-2013 11:39PM

mfceiling wrote: »

While i hate these c*nts, the bigger idiots are the f*ckwits who let them in. I've blocked c*nts like that before from getting in...one c*nt gets the window down to roar....too late...i'd the window down and told him to get to the back of the f*cking queue and if he wanted i'd kick him back there personally. Nice red face on the prick then.

TBH the best thing for all concerned is letting them in. You might end up getting where you are going a few minutes later but you could prevent that idiot causing an accident.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-11-2013 11:39PM

Muckit wrote: »

If you think Irish drivers are bad, try driving in Italy!

Yes.

No hard shoulders and yeah they'll do double the limit coming up to junctions, but everyone pulls in instantly after overtaking.

Easier to overtake someone there on a two lane carriageway than it is here on the three lane M50 where I drive a lot in the inside lane because I can bail out into the hard shoulder if some muppet tries to dive into the gap in front of me.

Cienciano · 22-11-2013 11:41PM

Pass middle laners on the left. (ok, i know you're not supposed to technically)
I drive the m50 every day, and the left lane is normally almost empty.

cros13 · 22-11-2013 11:43PM

Pen.Island wrote: »

Question, if the cars in the overtaking lane are doing the speed limit, are they still in the wrong? In my mind they would not. Also is it an unwritten rule for the M50 or is it part of motorway ettiquette?

Yes, definitely in the wrong, It's the Guard's job to enforce the speed limit. Good lane discipline is one of the reasons that even with no speed limit the rate of accidents on the Autobahn is kept to acceptable levels.
If you are in the wrong lane on the Autobahn the police WILL pull you over and ticket you or even arrest you if they judge that your bad driving endangered others.

Speed in itself isn't a problem. It's how appropriate your speed is to road type, road conditions, traffic levels and your relative speed to other traffic.
On the Autobahn sections of normally unlimited speed road are signposted for a 100/120/130 speed limit "in the wet" when the road surface/layout would merit that limit. And everyone keeps to those limits without exception.

Pen.Island · 22-11-2013 11:45PM

cros13 wrote: »

Yes, definitely in the wrong, It's the Guard's job to enforce the speed limit. Good lane discipline is one of the reasons that even with no speed limit the rate of accidents on the Autobahn is kept to acceptable levels.
If you are in the wrong lane on the Autobahn the police WILL pull you over and ticket you or even arrest you if they judge that your bad driving endangered others.

So you are allowed to break the speed limit in the overtaking lane?

cros13 · 22-11-2013 11:50PM

Pen.Island wrote: »

So you are allowed to break the speed limit in the overtaking lane?

No.... the speed limit is the speed limit. But you should also be in the correct lane (also a penalty point offence BTW).

Much of the Autobahn has no speed limit and people can.... and do go 240km/h+, usually safely.

The section of road/conditions need to be perfect. You need a good car in excellent repair and designed to operate at that kind of speed. And ideally you need to be a well-trained well-practised driver.

cros13 · 22-11-2013 11:55PM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope, no bike camera. The speed is slightly deceptive because of the angle ( I swear

)

SpaceTime · 22-11-2013 11:55PM

It's probably something to do with the fact that a grand total of ZERO Irish drivers have had any motorway training whatsoever.

We are expected to learn these rules by some kind of osmosis!

Motorway or dual carriageway driving isn't even on the driving test (unless something's changed recently).

There's really not much point in ranting about people's lack of knowledge when there was never any formal system in place to give them that knowledge in the first place.

Pen.Island · 22-11-2013 11:57PM

Well if you can't go over the speed limit on the M50, then the majority of drivers I'd assume in the right lane are going 60mph if possible. 60mph is nothing.

anncoates · 22-11-2013 11:59PM

Worst one is cunts that have to stay in the overtaking lane until about one kilometre before their exit and then veer crazily through the lanes to make it.

Zonn · 23-11-2013 12:11AM

BMJD wrote: »

I blame the foreigners

I am a foreigner and my driving is so good I got 100% on the theory test in Ireland which is too easy, i got my full license on the first attempt. Prior to that I had passed my theory and road test in my country of origin without any problems. The real problem in Ireland is the training process is relaxed. Many irish natives (not all) learn how to move the car not how to drive. This does not cover professional drivers who seem to have more of a real test. Stop throwing the foreigner card on the table, driving regulations just need to be tighter here. 12 compulsory lessons for a first time driver is too little. If it was 30 hours minimum before a road test maybe you would be a good driver and not blaming foreigners.

cros13 · 23-11-2013 12:12AM

Pen.Island wrote: »

Well if you can't go over the speed limit on the M50, then the majority of drivers I'd assume in the right lane are going 60mph if possible. 60mph is nothing.

What's an mph? Wikipedia hints that it may be some kind of Americo-Liberian unit. /s

You mean 100km/h?

Just to make you feel old, I'd be surprised if anyone 30 or under got their driver's license before the country was fully metricated. I'm 28 next month and I remember those units as some weird thing my dad used to use.

Wailin · 23-11-2013 12:12AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Its only the muck savages that have never seen a 4 lane road before that cause these problems.

Bollocks. I'm a "muck savage" and drive on a motorway or 3 lane carraigeway better than most "city folk" or Jackeens. The amount of ignorant dopes I come across on the M50 and M7/M9 is incredible. On the M50 the inner left lane is practically unused when not busy with drivers hogging the middle lane and undertaking, overtaking like imbeciles!

mfceiling · 23-11-2013 12:15AM

cros13 wrote: »

TBH the best thing for all concerned is letting them in. You might end up getting where you are going a few minutes later but you could prevent that idiot causing an accident.

I know....but the ones who drive up to the head of the queue, then stop with their indicator on and expect to cut in...fcuk right off

cros13 · 23-11-2013 12:15AM

Wailin wrote: »

Bollocks. I'm a "muck savage" and drive on a motorway or 3 lane carraigeway better than most "city folk" or Jackeens. The amount of ignorant dopes I come across on the M50 and M7/M9 is incredible. On the M50 the inner left lane is practically unused when not busy with drivers hogging the middle lane and undertaking, overtaking like imbeciles!

I'm a "muck savage" too BTW

... well kinda... I've lived in cities half my life so now I'm what South Park would called "confused"

Zonn · 23-11-2013 12:27AM

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Irish drivers can drive on lanes, it is roads that confuse them.

I think Anyone confused by roads is a hazard to other road users.

Pen.Island · 23-11-2013 12:32AM

cros13 wrote: »

What's an mph? Wikipedia hints that it may be some kind of Americo-Liberian unit. /s

You mean 100km/h?

Just to make you feel old, I'd be surprised if anyone 30 or under got their driver's license before the country was fully metricated. I'm 28 next month and I remember those units as some weird thing my dad used to use.

My cars main unit is in MPH so that's what I look at! Also I prefer using MPH, I get a better representation of speed than KM.

23-11-2013 12:36AM

cros13 wrote: »

You can stay in lane 2 on a three lane in Ireland when there is slower traffic in the driving lane. In practice you need to look ahead on the road, judge the speed of the next vehicle in the driving lane, and if they are going a good bit slower stay in lane 2 to pass them.

The main differences (AFAIR) between Ireland and the UK are the specifics of the yellow box rule (In the UK you can't enter a yellow box at all unless there is space on the other side and you can cross it without stopping or your exit of the junction is clear. In Ireland you can enter the yellow box at a junction if you are turning right (into the road with the yellow box) AND you will not block the intervening driving lane by doing so) and indicating on the motorway (in Ireland you must indicate all lane changes and in the UK *I think* you don't have to indicate when returning to the driving lane)

There are all sorts of little differences. Like in Germany you are allowed undertake in traffic if the person in the overtaking lane is doing 60km/h or less and you are passing them at equal to or less than 20 km/h more than their speed.
In Ireland the law says undertaking is allowed "in slow-moving queues" without a legal definition of "slow-moving" or "queues". That kind of legal wooliness is common in Irish law.

That would explain a LOT of the driving without indicating I've seen since moving to the UK. NOBODY seems to indicate as much on roundabouts and things. Also I think they have a different rule if you're coming up to a standard 4-exit roundabout.

In Ireland I always thought you stay in the left lane if taking the first or 2nd exits and the right hand lane if you're taking the last exit.

I think in the UK it seems to be stay in the left lane for the 1st exit and the right lane for the 3rd exit and either/or if you're taking the 2nd exit

dodderangler · 23-11-2013 12:38AM

cros13 wrote: »

It's annoyed the hell out of me for a while, particularly on the N7 and M50.

What's so hard?

Motoring forum gave up complaining on this topic a long time ago. So I'd like to hear from a broader audience like AH.

I made a video to illustrate the problem (only examples I could find on my SD).
Sorry for the video glitches... the SD card was corrupt.

Clearly you've never been in Manila
4 painted lanes and 8 lanes of traffic. We're lucky

RDM_83 again · 23-11-2013 12:45AM

Too the people going on about how bad the Irish (and the UK) are at driving.
The UK has a much lower road death rate than Germany at 2.75/100,000
Ireland has an only very slightly higher death rate (especially when you consider all our sub-standard rural roads) at 4.7/100,000 (IE) to 4.4/100,000 (DE)

23-11-2013 12:55AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Too the people going on about how bad the Irish (and the UK) are at driving.
The UK has a much lower road death rate than Germany at 2.75/100,000
Ireland has an only very slightly higher death rate (especially when you consider all our sub-standard rural roads) at 4.7/100,000 (IE) to 4.4/100,000 (DE)

Always interesting to have some stats / empirical data to back up an argument.

Out of curiosity (not doubting you) where did you get the info?

I happen to think Ireland is pretty good in comparison to the rest of the world to be honest with you

dodderangler · 23-11-2013 12:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Always interesting to have some stats / empirical data to back up an argument.

Out of curiosity (not doubting you) where did you get the info?

I happen to think Ireland is pretty good in comparison to the rest of the world to be honest with you

+1 on that. Most deaths on Irish roads are on dual carriage ways and long roads. But that's deaths. What about country roads? Plenty of crashes maybe not fatal but plenty.
The m50 from tallaght to dun drum is 60 then 100km.
I've been on back country roads that were 100kmh around dangerous and the locals do hammer around them not realising non locals will be about.

23-11-2013 12:59AM

I used to think we were particularly bad but went across Europe during the summer and they were every bit as bad, I was really surprised. Several times there'd be gridlock for 10 minutes all down to ****ty lane discipline. The lorry drivers were ridiculous as well.

cros13 · 23-11-2013 01:02AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Too the people going on about how bad the Irish (and the UK) are at driving.
The UK has a much lower road death rate than Germany at 2.75/100,000
Ireland has an only very slightly higher death rate (especially when you consider all our sub-standard rural roads) at 4.7/100,000 (IE) to 4.4/100,000 (DE)

The death rate is deceptive. In an incident involving two modern cars you face little chance of dying in an accident except at high speed. At 240km/h on the Autobahn a bump in the road that's imperceptible at 120km/h can literally bounce your car into another lane.

I'd say the minor accident rate would be more telling. But I'd also suspect those numbers would be underreported in Ireland as many people would handle settlements person to person and not inform their insurance (which is where those statistics usually come from).

Vs. both Germany and the UK, Irish drivers are very poorly trained. Many of them have never even had a driving test, driving without a valid license is shockingly common and a tiny minority are trained at any speed above 60km/h or at night (who either seek out advanced training or passed their test in another country).

I'd be in favor of having everyone re-test on every 10 year license renewal with both a motorway and a night test.

dodderangler · 23-11-2013 01:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

. The lorry drivers were ridiculous as well.

I see artic drivers in morning on m50 on their phones. Wouldn't do it in a car never mind a 10 ton truck maybe more.
Idiots. At even 80kmh a artic would leave a jeep to dust at full impact

23-11-2013 01:06AM

dodderangler wrote: »

I see artic drivers in morning on m50 on their phones. Wouldn't do it in a car never mind a 10 ton truck maybe more.
Idiots. At even 80kmh a artic would leave a jeep to dust at full impact

I've seen worse, was on a bus overtaking a lad reading a book at full speed on the M1.

porsche959 · 23-11-2013 01:07AM

cros13 wrote: »

I'd be in favor of having everyone re-test on every 10 year license renewal with both a motorway and a night test.

Because more costs and administration is just what the Irish motorist needs right now! :rolleyes:

cros13 · 23-11-2013 01:09AM

porsche959 wrote: »

Because more costs and administration is just what the Irish motorist needs right now! :rolleyes:

What the Irish motorist needs is to learn how to drive.

BTW getting a driving license in Germany would cost you at least €3000-4000 and up to 2 years of your life.
Driving is a privilege not a right and a skill you should continue to improve on.

No Excuses.

Why can't Irish drivers use lanes properly?

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