Gardaí smash travelling gang.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 22-11-2013 09:31PM

Yesterdays Irish Times online story( The highlighting is mine):
The Irish Times understands some of the men arrested are known criminal figures who have been the target of the Garda’s Operation Fiacla.Theyare from Coolock, north Dublin, and some are members of an extended Traveller family.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/seven-arrested-after-family-held-hostage-in-tipperary-1.1602532

swht · 22-11-2013 09:31PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Bollocks why would print a retraction on what they themselves have couched in the broadest possible terms!
And it does not state that they are members of an extended Traveller family (whatever defuq that means), it states some of them are understood to be.
Again either way I am not defending the bastárds, so I fail to see what your issue is.

I have looked again and this is a copy and paste of 2 entire paragraphs from the article:

"The Irish Times understands some of the men arrested are known criminal figures who have been the target of the Garda’s Operation Fiacla."

"They are from Coolock, north Dublin, and some are members of an extended Traveller family."

It's a pet hate really, people always try to deny the levels of criminality in the traveller community by saying there is no evidence that certain criminals were travellers. Usually quickly followed by sure there are criminals in every community. Really the focus should be on reducing the levels of criminality.

swht · 22-11-2013 09:34PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Yesterdays Irish Times online story( The highlighting is mine):
The Irish Times understands some of the men arrested are known criminal figures who have been the target of the Garda’s Operation Fiacla.Theyare from Coolock, north Dublin, and some are members of an extended Traveller family.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/seven-arrested-after-family-held-hostage-in-tipperary-1.1602532

I'm guessing their editors don't want to be focusing on the fact that they are travellers at the risk of being accused of discrimination. However if they had any doubts about the accuracy of their original report they most definitely would have removed the reference.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 22-11-2013 09:36PM

gonzo.phd wrote: »

I have looked again and this is a copy and paste of 2 entire paragraphs from the article:

"The Irish Times understands some of the men arrested are known criminal figures who have been the target of the Garda’s Operation Fiacla."

"They are from Coolock, north Dublin, and some are members of an extended Traveller family."

It's a pet hate really, people always try to deny the levels of criminality in the traveller community by saying there is no evidence that certain criminals were travellers. Usually quickly followed by sure there are criminals in every community. Really the focus should be on reducing the levels of criminality.

Well that single report only indicates that some of these scumbags are of an extended Traveller family( whatever that means) .
Your last paragraph is far more to the point, what is important is reducing levels of criminality and I would add that is cases as savage as this ensuring that lengthy sentences are handed down and are served,

swht · 22-11-2013 09:44PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

what is important is reducing levels of criminality and I would add that is cases as savage as this ensuring that lengthy sentences are handed down and are served,

Absolutely, regardless of background.

wil · 22-11-2013 09:45PM

emo72 wrote: »

okay, you seem to be on a mission here. no problem. how do you know about the screwdriver. it certainly wasnt reported. i got that directly from them. but yeah it wasnt reported. you are suggesting i made that up. why would i do that?

it was just to give an idea of the ordeal they went through. mark is lovely guy and well liked. i cant believe this happened to his family. i have a young daughter too, cant comprehend this myself.

Is it possible they were targeted or set up perhaps as a grudge when they stopping doing business with this crowd, or were they seen as a soft target who just became known of by some undesirables. The news reported most of their business was online and credit card so there wouldn't be much cash involved.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/night-of-terror-for-family-struck-by-raiders-29775259.html
Doesn't seem like there was just a cash reason for this attack, 7 people for not much more than a small burglary seems odd. Sounds bit like a terror attack, making it even more reprehensible, if that is possible.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 22-11-2013 09:45PM

gonzo.phd wrote: »

Absolutely, regardless of background.

Totally agree, one law applicable to all.

* Shakes hands*:)

byhookorbycrook · 22-11-2013 10:05PM

Using motor ways is stupid. Block the road and the exits nearby and they're trapped. Well done the Gardaí

sasta le · 22-11-2013 10:21PM

emo72 wrote: »

you cant turn people away just because they are travellers. the victims are good people and treat everyone equally. unfortunately this gang see this as an opportunity.

Know what your saying but RTE said a family in modest bungalow then we see a house with big gates and big warehouses.They could chose not to deal with travellers also
That gang went down with serious intent

Greenmachine · 22-11-2013 10:26PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Care to elaborate. These were violent criminals. Now we have the pleasure of giving them free legal aid. The cost of trying them. The cost of bed and board.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 22-11-2013 10:30PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

Care to elaborate. These were violent criminals. Now we have the pleasure of giving them free legal aid. The cost of trying them. The cost of bed and board.

Sure:
The Rule of Law
Due Process
A trial , a conviction, a proper and fitting sentence.
We have a Police force they are not yet judge ,jury, and executioner nor do they want to be.

catallus · 22-11-2013 11:06PM

Maybe, and I'm just offering this as a tentative hypothetical, but just maybe we should have law enforcement officers like Judge Dredd.

Now, before ye all flip the lid, hear me out.

It would greatly diminish the cost of the legal process and ensure justice at the same time. It would massively reduce crime rates as well as heightening the sense of safety amongst law abiding people. And as they'd have the power to carry out summary executions there'd be a massively reduced prison population, which should make a lot of people happy.

What's not to like?

end of the road · 22-11-2013 11:24PM

gonzo.phd wrote: »

people always try to deny the levels of criminality in the traveller community by saying there is no evidence that certain criminals were travellers. Usually quickly followed by sure there are criminals in every community.

because somebody saying certain travelers are criminals on boards or the joe duffy show or some journalist with an agenda isn't evidence, and nobodies denying the levels of criminality in the traveler community however i believe the amount is probably exaggerated, however as some people like to paint all travelers as criminals sadly we have to keep reminding them that their are criminals in all walks of life, it would be much easier if we didn't but hey thats just how it is.

swht · 23-11-2013 12:24AM

end of the road wrote: »

because somebody saying certain travelers are criminals on boards or the joe duffy show or some journalist with an agenda isn't evidence, and nobodies denying the levels of criminality in the traveler community however i believe the amount is probably exaggerated, however as some people like to paint all travelers as criminals sadly we have to keep reminding them that their are criminals in all walks of life, it would be much easier if we didn't but hey thats just how it is.

You saying that a journalist has an agenda does not make it true, what are you basing this on? Nobody said that a certain traveler was a criminal, they said a certain criminal was a traveler which is a subtle but important distinction. The former suggests that an individual is being accused of being a criminal based on their background but the latter is stating the background of someone who IS a criminal.

You think that the level of criminality is exaggerated and I think that it is not neither of us has any evidence of this and and as such there's probably no point in talking about it.

I think that recognising the higher level of criminality among the traveler population means it can be addressed whereas saying sure there's criminals in every society does nothing for a targeted response to the problem.

Greenmachine · 23-11-2013 05:21PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Sure:
The Rule of Law
Due Process
A trial , a conviction, a proper and fitting sentence.
We have a Police force they are not yet judge ,jury, and executioner nor do they want to be.

These are violent criminals seen leaving the scene of a crime where they had terrorised a family. What about boxing them in, or even a fishtail maneuver. My heart bleeds for them. The Justice system in this country is a bitch.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 23-11-2013 05:27PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

These are violent criminals seen leaving the scene of a crime where they had terrorised a family. What about boxing them in, or even a fishtail maneuver. My heart bleeds for them. The Justice system in this country is a bitch.

The Gardaí caught them without the need to riddle the vehicle or them with bullets.
Now lets have due process and hopefully very long sentences.
The justice system certainly has failings but it is a dam site better than mob law!

Greenmachine · 23-11-2013 07:57PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

The Gardaí caught them without the need to riddle the vehicle or them with bullets.
Now lets have due process and hopefully very long sentences.
The justice system certainly has failings but it is a dam site better than mob law!

That's hardly what I am talking about. I am not for a second suggesting that members of should have taken the law into their own hands.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 23-11-2013 08:00PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

Pussy foot work by the police in this case. Chase should not have gone on nearly that long. It should have ended with the perps full of bullets.

Greenmachine wrote: »

That's hardly what I am talking about. I am not for a second suggesting that members of should have taken the law into their own hands.

Really!!

Mutually incompatible posts!

Scarla fer ya!

Hootanany · 23-11-2013 08:16PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Really!!

Mutually incompatible posts!

Scarla fer ya!

Does not compute

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 23-11-2013 08:36PM

Hootanany wrote: »

Does not compute

It seems that few things do for you.

Greenmachine · 24-11-2013 01:18PM

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Really!!

Mutually incompatible posts!

Scarla fer ya!

Are you serious. How does my saying they should have been filled with bullets suggest, that I think members of the public should be the ones doing it. I was suggesting it as a suitable course of action for the gardai to take against them. I am baffled you think my two posts are incompatible.

RustyNut · 24-11-2013 01:26PM

I don't care if they are travelling criminals or traveller criminals I'm glad they are out of circulation.

10/10 for AGS weather it was a planed operation or quick reaction to events as they unfolded.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 24-11-2013 01:55PM

All 7 charged with aggravated burglary and remanded in custody.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1124/488713-killenaule-armed-raiders-due-before-cashel-court/

joe stodge · 24-11-2013 04:30PM

It's their culture, boss.

davycc · 24-11-2013 04:39PM

for what its worth at least 3 of them are travellers.

John Joyce,19, from Lentisk Lawn, Donaghmede, Dublin; Patrick Joyce, 21, from Beaumont Hall, Beaumont Woods, Dublin 9; Michael McDonagh, 22, from Tara Lawns, Belcamp Lane, Coolock, Dublin 5;

I can only hope the judge does the right thing and makes an example of them all, whatever their background or fecking sob story.

P. Breathnach · 24-11-2013 05:02PM

davycc wrote: »

for what its worth at least 3 of them are travellers....

For what it's worth, it doesn't matter a damn if any, or how many, of them are travellers. The charge is aggravated burglary, not membership of the travelling community.

They are all young adult males who live on the north side of Dublin. Why is nobody making an issue of those facts? Is it because it is wrong to vilify all young adult men or all people who live on the northside because people accused of a heinous crime belong in those categories?

kupus · 24-11-2013 05:25PM

Looks like they sent out the young guns on this trip. The elders are probably being watched too close.

xploderz · 24-11-2013 05:41PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

For what it's worth, it doesn't matter a damn if any, or how many, of them are travellers. The charge is aggravated burglary, not membership of the travelling community.

I think it's fair to comment on something like a disproportionate amount of travellers being involved in crime given their tiny % of the overall population. Until we acknowledge simple facts like that, nothing will change. I've nothing against travellers and not gonna come out with comments like "drop a nuke on their halting sites" etc etc, but there does seem to be a societal problem with higher % of them terrorizing the community in comparison to settled people.

end of the road · 24-11-2013 05:47PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

Are you serious. How does my saying they should have been filled with bullets suggest, that I think members of the public should be the ones doing it. I was suggesting it as a suitable course of action for the gardai to take against them. I am baffled you think my two posts are incompatible.

and why would they do that? the way the handled it was very well and now we can bring these people to trial, this isn't america and the guardai aren't going to "fill people with bullits" just to suit you

catallus · 24-11-2013 06:22PM

end of the road wrote: »

and why would they do that? the way the handled it was very well and now we can bring these people to trial, this isn't america and the guardai aren't going to "fill people with bullits" just to suit you

Why single out the US?? The police over there very rarely shoot people to death, and when they do it is usually well justified.

Gardaí smash travelling gang.

Comments