RWC Bid 2023/2027

ArmaniJeanss · 18-11-2013 2:24pm

I see the Examiner online has corrected their geographical error from the print edition, where they moved Japan 2000 miles south and said Ireland should beat South Africa to the 2023 bid as it'll be the 'turn' of the northern hemisphere.

Podge_irl · 18-11-2013 2:27pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I see the Examiner online has corrected their geographical error from the print edition, where they moved Japan 2000 miles south and said Ireland should beat South Africa to the 2023 bid as it'll be the 'turn' of the northern hemisphere.

Saw that.

I think Japan is considered SH in rugby geopolitical terms! Anyway, I think the notion of rotating back and forth is stupid and outdated anyway, particularly given the larger scope for hosting countries up north.

Shout Dust · 18-11-2013 6:08pm

robsom wrote: »

The IRFU hold's an advantage when it comes to rwc voting. As one of the founding members Ireland is entitled to 2 votes. Argentina and Italy have just 1 each. This means that Ireland could for instance cut a deal with South Africa - You vote for us in 2023, we vote for you 2027. Ireland could also gain Scotland's 2 votes if we grant them 5/6 of their rwc games in Edinburgh and so make Murrayfield part of the bid. The IRB have strongly indicated before that they don't want a flood of games outside of the host nations territory as happened in the past so an example of limiting a few games to Scotland and not including Wales or England in the bid is a likely scenario. It's also worth noting that the attendences for Argentina's recent home games (All Blacks aside) were particularly poor especially the Springbok game in Mendoza. If that continues it wont do their rwc chances much good.

You'd imagine the IRFU should be able to count on the NZRU to vote in favour after the IRFU supporting New Zealands 2011 bid, England would probably support an Irish bid too. A deal with South Africa to support them in 2027 would give another 2 votes, and surely something could be reached with Wales and Scotland. Australia could go any way, having surprisingly voted for Japan in 2011.

Synode · 18-11-2013 6:28pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Saw that.

I think Japan is considered SH in rugby geopolitical terms! Anyway, I think the notion of rotating back and forth is stupid and outdated anyway, particularly given the larger scope for hosting countries up north.

Why is it stupid? It's done so fans in the opposite hemisphere don't have to watch matches at unsociable hours every single tournament, just every 1 in 2.

Podge_irl · 18-11-2013 6:45pm

Synode wrote: »

Why is it stupid? It's done so fans in the opposite hemisphere don't have to watch matches at unsociable hours every single tournament, just every 1 in 2.

It's stupid because the vast majority of the rugby watching population is in the north and all areas it could conceivably be expanded are in the north save Argentina. Also the SH nations don't have to watch an unsociable hour, just Australia and New Zealand. A RWC in SA is no benefit to them on that front.

Going to the SH every second tournament essentially means going to SA or Aus every second time as NZ can't afford to host it that regularly, especially not going forward as they're trying to expand the size of the competiton. It's needlessly restrictive.

Fianna Fowl · 18-11-2013 6:50pm

If FIFA can play the soccer world cup in Qatar during the winter then surely the rugby world cup could be played once the ladies finals are finished in October/November.

Not sure if i'd advcate moving the Cumann na mBunscol finals, maybe the rugby world cup could find a slot in November & December?

Podge_irl · 19-11-2013 4:54pm

Why would they be unable to host?

It would, I imagine, depend entirely on when this hypothetical inability came to the fore.

crc · 19-11-2013 4:58pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

corollary question: What if any back-up plan exists should Japan be unable to host the 2019 event?

Who was runner-up in that bidding? thanks.

I think the prospect of Japan not being able to host the RWC in 2019 is extremely slim. Even after the 2011 tsunami Japan's infrastructure was in better shape than New Zealand's (e.g. Christchurch). Unless something truly catastrophic occurs, Japan is in good shape.

Dravokivich · 19-11-2013 5:31pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Cavan town coped with 300,000 visitors over a weekend for the Fleadh Ceoil so if thats doable then a similar amount of visitors spread over 5weeks+ over the island is no bother!

The lack of accomodation is compensated for by folks driving from farther afield and similar to the euro soccer championships you can lay on temporary campsites etc.

But its more than possible.
Some games will be all neutrals so mainly irish who can drive there on the day.
Games involving Ireland are the same, vast majority will drive/ get a lift with maybe some special dedicated busses/ trains laid on
Games involving France/ British isles nations will be just normal service like 6 nations games with the only complication that a game may be in Cork or Limerick or Belfast rather than Dublin - but they also have airports and are on mainline rail so again no bother.

The thing with that event, is there was a lot focused onto the one area. For something like a RWC, it's not just one event, it's a collection of upto 6/8 events, maybe even twice a week in 5/6 different parts of the country.

The only thing I'm curious and cautious about with this bid, is how that's all going to be managed. You can't have thousands of tourists driving the roads at the same time all trying to get to the same places.

munchkin_utd · 19-11-2013 5:54pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

The thing with that event, is there was a lot focused onto the one area. For something like a RWC, it's not just one event, it's a collection of upto 6/8 events, maybe even twice a week in 5/6 different parts of the country.

The only thing I'm curious and cautious about with this bid, is how that's all going to be managed. You can't have thousands of tourists driving the roads at the same time all trying to get to the same places.

Firstly, its harder to manage a concentration of people in one place at one time than a very very spread out tournament both time and location wise.
This distribution of the tournament will alleviate any problems rather than cause them.

Seriously, you might have Ireland in Dublin with a game in Killarney scheduled the same day.
A game in Belfast the next day along with a game in Limerick.
Then a game in Cork and Galway the next day etc.
I cannot see what problem could possibly occur with congestion or masses of crowds wandering about the countryside seeing as its so spread out.

slingerz · 19-11-2013 5:56pm

How many stadiums would be needed?

Having 3 in Dublin is a bit of overkill really as is two in Limerick. Not sure what size crowds were at the games in NZ recently but would have thought that Ravenhill, RDS and Thomond would be a little on the small side.

Staging games in Casement Park up north, Pearse Stadium in Galway, Fitzgerald Stadium in Kerry, Pairc Ui Chaoimh in Cork, Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and the Avia/Croke Park would be sufficent stadiums to host it IMO without needing to offer games to Scotland/Wales

Dravokivich · 19-11-2013 5:59pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Firstly, its harder to manage a concentration of people in one place at one time than a very very spread out tournament both time and location wise.
This distribution of the tournament will alleviate any problems rather than cause them.

Seriously, you might have Ireland in Dublin with a game in Killarney scheduled the same day.
A game in Belfast the next day along with a game in Limerick.
Then a game in Cork and Galway the next day etc.
I cannot see what problem could possibly occur with congestion or masses of crowds wandering about the countryside seeing as its so spread out.

Not really, because you can focus all your resources into the one area. Transportation really is the only question about supporting it.

The Lost Sheep · 19-11-2013 6:09pm

slingerz wrote: »

How many stadiums would be needed?

Having 3 in Dublin is a bit of overkill really as is two in Limerick. Not sure what size crowds were at the games in NZ recently but would have thought that Ravenhill, RDS and Thomond would be a little on the small side.

Staging games in Casement Park up north, Pearse Stadium in Galway, Fitzgerald Stadium in Kerry, Pairc Ui Chaoimh in Cork, Gaelic Grounds in Limerick and the Avia/Croke Park would be sufficent stadiums to host it IMO without needing to offer games to Scotland/Wales

7 stadiums isnt enough and Thomond and RDS will be used. You dont need all grounds 40000+ as if you have 2 of the small qualifiers playing in front of a half full stadium it doesnt look good while that crowd would look big in a 18000 capacity stadium like RDS, Ravenhill
12/13 stadiums probanly needed maybe you could get away with 1 or maybe 2 less than that
Comparing crowds to NZ is difficult as crowds would be much bigger for a world cup here due to Irelands location in comparison to NZs

munchkin_utd · 19-11-2013 6:16pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not really, because you can focus all your resources into the one area. Transportation really is the only question about supporting it.

transportation of who and when?
You are presuming that fans are coming to the game at the last minute all at once. Why?
And you presume that masses of fans need transporting. Also, why?

It simply wont be the case as travelling fans will come in dribs and drabs possibly days in advance and will stay locally if possible, so the only contingent coming en masse on the day 60min before kick off are irish people who in general will have a car or lift in a car to get them to the game.

Even English/ scottish/ welsh driving over will be coming in bunches, but with their own transport.
And for those travelling fans not driving there will be flights to where they need to go, i.e. Shannon or Cork or Belfast. And should any fans land in Dublin but need to get down the country, theres plenty of capacity on the trains in the middle of the day without even needing to put on extra services.
Maybe galway is an issue as it lacks an airport, but just have Tonga v Namibia up there and you'll have no travelling fans to have a transportation issue with at all then!

Its all very manageable.

Larbre34 · 19-11-2013 6:23pm

Transportation will not be an issue. None of the individual venue towns/cities are big enough to require mass transit for a short term event and the event planning is unlikely to block games in more than one venue in the same city on the same day, specifically Dublin or Limerick (I dont even think the Gaelic Grounds is being considered as a venue anyway)

For the London Olympics, LOCOG tendered for temporary coach fleet contracts, many of which were won by Irish operators who sent their fleets to England for the duration. RWC Ireland Ltd can do exactly the same thing when the time comes, there are more than enough coach operators in the UK to deal with any temporary periods of high demand from fans or team transport needs.

MBolgia · 19-11-2013 8:42pm

I've decided that every time someone raises a logistical or logical concern withe the RWC bid I'm going to reply with "be grand!"

Not enough buses, issues with transport? "be grand!"

Lack of stadia and / or training facilities? "be grand!"

In fact, "be grand!" should be our motto for the event ...

IRB Rugby World Cup Ireland 2023. Be grand.

overshoot · 19-11-2013 10:47pm

Our Bid (10+1)- 1x>80k, 67K (murrayfield) 2 @50k, 2 mid 40k, 2 30-40k, 2 c25k and 1 <20k
Englands (13) - 2x>80k, 1x75k (wales), 1x60k, 2x50-55k, 1x40k, 4x30-40k, 2 20k or less
NZ (12)- 1x60k, 1x40k, 2 x 35k, 2x30k, 1x26k, 2x20k & 3<20k
*sorry failed to make a proper table

id also include an other ulster stadium, celtic park in derry - 22k or healy park, omagh 18k. Derry does seem like a bit of an omission though, waterford to a lesser extent as dungarvin is down at 15k and has no airport and half the population

with wales being involved in the england bid id may suit us & make it harder for them to force involvement & the proximity for them may gain their vote in the end.
we would need murrayfield tho & possibly the millenium anyway, there is a gap capacity wise between lansdowne & croker. but there is plenty of ferrys/planes. Both of our celtic cousins & Derry would put us more or less level with england in terms of stadia capacity. always the or Irish loving glasgow celtic's 60k stadium too.... (2 celtic parks in the one tournament

), would allow us to run a bid with just scotland

i saw cavan mentioned earlier, god no! spent over 2 hours getting out of there this year after Donegal Down!

Voodoo_rasher · 20-11-2013 2:54pm

crc wrote: »

I think the prospect of Japan not being able to host the RWC in 2019 is extremely slim. Even after the 2011 tsunami Japan's infrastructure was in better shape than New Zealand's (e.g. Christchurch). Japan is in good shape.

Japan's in good shape you say. Incredible.

So how does 3 nuclear meltdowns, and on-going r@diation fall-out leave things there.

Podge: "Why would they be unable to host?
It would, I imagine, depend entirely on when this hypothetical inability came to the fore".

Maybe if players, professional or otherwise decide that their health is at risk playing there. Lets say something critical happens during the risky removal of spent nuclear fuel at that cursed F-shima plant. Olympians and rugby players are no different in this regard.

Who was runner-up in the bidding for the 2019 WC. Lets say if Japan is rendered unable to host it what with all this F#kushima hoo-ha lets call it, who will get it then.

Podge_irl · 20-11-2013 2:58pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

So 3 nuclear meltdowns, and on-going radiation fall-out is not "something truly catastrophic"..

No, it really isn't. It's incredibly far from catastrophic (and also not an accurate description of the situation there).

The reporting of the Fukishama thing has annoyed me from the outset. The chances of it impacting the 2019 RWC are about 0.0000001%

crc · 20-11-2013 3:54pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

Japan's in good shape you say. Incredible.

So 3 nuclear meltdowns, and on-going r@diation fall-out is not "something truly catastrophic"..

I expected better, informed answers from this, not ignorance bordering de facto denial!

Lets dial it down a little buddy, alright? I didn't insult you; please have the same consideration for me and others.

For what its worth, I was in Japan in July of this year (Tokyo and Osaka, among other places). Below are some photos that I personally took at the Prince Chichibu Memorial Stadium and Tokyo Olympic Stadium. I stand by my original assertions, Japan is in good shape and will host a great Rugby World Cup.

The level of radiation in most of Japan (outside of the immediate exclusion zone) is actually less than many major cities around the world (e.g. New York, London, Berlin, Paris).
If you're really interested in the details of radiation levels in Japan I suggest these sites:
http://japan.failedrobot.com/
http://www.japantravelinfo.com/news/news_item.php?newsid=431
http://www.meti.go.jp/english/earthquake/nuclear/roadmap/pdf/20130807_01.pdf
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eq/eng/04_recovery.htm

ArmaniJeanss · 20-11-2013 4:40pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

Japan's in good shape you say. Incredible.

So 3 nuclear meltdowns, and on-going r@diation fall-out is not "something truly catastrophic"..

I expected better, informed answers from this, not ignorance bordering de facto denial!

The Japanese coast is wholly under threat from a luminescent green goo, whilst inland the people gasp for breath in an oxygen reduced environment.
The Japanese/international media have conspired to keep the true scale of the ongoing disaster a secret, and only some brave bloggers on the internet are telling the full story.
Hopefully the IRB will see sense and move the competition to a nice safe western country.

Is that a better answer?

Rightwing · 20-11-2013 4:45pm

I think we are more than well set up for hosting this W Cup.

2 in Dublin, 2 in Limk, 1 in Cork, Galway, Belfast, Killarney.

Swiwi. · 20-11-2013 8:14pm

As I've posted before SA will get one of 2023/2027 - politically powerful, guaranteed the SANZAR vote I would have thought, perfect timezone for Europe, last hosted '95, a genuine rugby force, decent stadia etc. That rules out Argentina (who haven't expressed interest recently anyway as far as I can see).

France have put their hand up, but that would be a disgrace, considering they only hosted in 2007.

So Italy or Ireland? Ireland will surely get the Lions votes, I imagine France might back Italy, SANZAR I reckon would go with Ireland, and if you have Lions + SANZAR in the bag it's a formality. Most important of all, Leo can pop down to the IRB HQ during lunch break at the Dail and lobby in person.

I think Ireland have an excellent chance of getting the rights, the main Q is whether it will come at the expense of games in Cardiff, Edinburgh and Twickenham...which is decidedly possible.

Shout Dust · 20-11-2013 8:30pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

As I've posted before SA will get one of 2023/2027 - politically powerful, guaranteed the SANZAR vote I would have thought, perfect timezone for Europe, last hosted '95, a genuine rugby force, decent stadia etc. That rules out Argentina (who haven't expressed interest recently anyway as far as I can see).

France have put their hand up, but that would be a disgrace, considering they only hosted in 2007.

So Italy or Ireland? Ireland will surely get the Lions votes, I imagine France might back Italy, SANZAR I reckon would go with Ireland, and if you have Lions + SANZAR in the bag it's a formality. Most important of all, Leo can pop down to the IRB HQ during lunch break at the Dail and lobby in person.

I think Ireland have an excellent chance of getting the rights, the main Q is whether it will come at the expense of games in Cardiff, Edinburgh and Twickenham...which is decidedly possible.

I wouldn't be sure of the home nations vote, especially the Welsh, they'll want the pound of flesh they extract every time a tournament is held in Europe. Wonder if the French owe the IRFU any favours? Although I imagine if an Italian bid had the incentive of a few games based in the south of France that'd be the decider

Swiwi. · 20-11-2013 8:35pm

Shout Dust wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure of the home nations vote, especially the Welsh, they'll want the pound of flesh they extract every time a tournament is held in Europe. Wonder if the French owe the IRFU any favours? Although I imagine if an Italian bid had the incentive of a few games based in the south of France that'd be the decider

The Welsh will need to be bought no question, they'll give themselves to the highest bidder

RWC in NH with Welsh stadia involvement

91
99
07
15

ie every one to date.

But I can't see the Celtic Nations scorning Ireland for Italy, unless something goes sadly awry with the Irish diplomacy. France on the other hand...

Voodoo_rasher · 20-11-2013 8:44pm

To ArmaniJeans fanciful 'luminescent green goo ...et al':

Ha...ha.....h☢ ☢ ☢

Ireland to bid for 2023 by all means. Full steam ahead.

former legend · 20-11-2013 9:47pm

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

To ArmaniJeans fanciful 'luminescent green goo ...et al':

Ha...ha.....h☢ ☢ ☢

Ireland to host 2023 by all means. Full steam ahead.

WTF?

Larbre34 · 21-11-2013 1:39pm

Rightwing wrote: »

I think we are more than well set up for hosting this W Cup.

2 in Dublin, 2 in Limk, 1 in Cork, Galway, Belfast, Killarney.

I think the bid feasibility was explored on this basis:

Dublin - Croker, Lansdowne, RDS (3)

Belfast - Casement, Ravenhill (2)

Limerick - Thomond (1)

Cork - Páirc Uí Chaoimh (1)

Galway - Pearse (1)

Killarney - Fitzgerald (1)

Castlebar - McHale (probably depending on where Enda is by then) (1)

Total 10

munchkin_utd · 21-11-2013 1:43pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

<snip>
I think Ireland have an excellent chance of getting the rights, the main Q is whether it will come at the expense of games in Cardiff, Edinburgh and Twickenham...which is decidedly possible.

the question then is whether its as much benefit to the country/ tourism as is previously made out if some/ most games involving the 6nations arent actually hosted in Ireland.
Seriously, eliminate all group round tourists for the early rounds from the countries nearest you and how many visitors will you have?

Its the group rounds where people can look at the schedule and plan a longer trip with a guaranteed 2 or 3 games they can go to. And theres midweek games there too to pad out your time.
In knockout stages the majority will wait to see if they are in it, and then deal with each game at a time, probably on a day trip weekend basis especially as theres nothing on midweek then.

errlloyd · 21-11-2013 1:50pm

I wish the irb would ban the tokenistic use of foreign stadia. Apart from the fact it's a stupid and unfair bargaining chip, I also think it's unfair on nations who have to play "neutral games" in their opposition home stadium. I think it devalues a world cup host nation too.

RWC Bid 2023/2027

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