Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

ESB vote to strike over gold plated pensions as winter arrives

1…6791112…97

Comments

  • #242
    Hootanany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,479 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Rumour has it that they actually built and paid for it.
    #The neck of them now enjoying it.

    By Tax Payers not parasites:cool:


  • #243
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,755 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    hansfrei wrote: »
    Another "insder" comment. I have no idea to whom or what you are refering.[/QUOTE

    I bet they get what they want this way.


  • #244
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,755 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Hootanany wrote: »
    By Tax Payers not parasites:cool:

    So everyone who enjoys good pay and conditions is a parasite?
    Ha ha you couldn't make it up.


  • #245
    hansfrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Refer to post 10. Sums it up nicely.

    No it doesn't. ESB is selling assets I own for me. Why the feck would the government give my money to a pension company?


  • #246
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,755 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    hansfrei wrote: »
    No it doesn't. ESB is selling assets I own for me. Why the feck would the government give my money to a pension company?

    Because that is what they signed up to with their workers. Simple.
    They are making plenty of profits.


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Refer to post 10. Sums it up nicely.

    So why didn't they take legal action in 2010 when it was agreed, whey did they wait 3 years?

    If you look at every single news report, the issue is not with the deficit, nor is it how is it going to be funded, the issue is with dividends and giving money to the government.

    Let's say the ESB don't give the dividend, and they don't give any money to the government, and so the employees get what they want, who then covers the deficit, remembering now a deal was struck in 2010 with was legally binding on how to solved the funding deficit.

    Would employees vote to increase contributions and to not get an increase in wages for next 10 years to plug the gap?


  • #248
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    must_slow_down wrote: »
    so you think ESB is private in the way Ryanair or Tesco are ?

    No but it's not public money like tax money either.


  • #249
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,755 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    So why didn't they take legal action in 2010 when it was agreed, whey did they wait 3 years?

    If you look at every single news report, the issue is not with the deficit, nor is it how is it going to be funded, the issue is with dividends and giving money to the government.

    Let's say the ESB don't give the dividend, and they don't give any money to the government, and so the employees get what they want, who then covers the deficit, remembering now a deal was struck in 2010 with was legally binding on how to solved the funding deficit.

    Would employees vote to increase contributions and to not get an increase in wages for next 10 years to plug the gap?

    You need to put that to them.
    As it stands I think they are right.


  • #250
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    Jett Nervous Pen wrote: »
    No but it's not public money like tax money either.

    Jaysus, ????


  • #251
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    100,000's of pensions are in big trouble in this country and the people can do nothing about it yet but the spoilt brats in the public sector can hold the country to ransom.

    there should be a law brought in to make trade unions illegal in return for an independent employee tribunal board. Unions are outdated and nothing but troublesome, treacherous organisations.

    Couldn't care less on this issue really but just to keep factual. ESB is not public sector, it is Private Sector. It never received any state funding and never has. It is fully self funding, as is the pension scheme. This is not a public sector pensions issue. Unlike CIE or Bord Na Mona, ESB is state owned but not state financed. 200 million dividend was paid to the state last year.
    It is actually incorrect accounting to pay any dividend if a deficit is shown on the accounts. As a DB pension scheme is in place they should not pay a dividend should there be a deficit.
    That said the deficit is on paper only: based on a scenario that if the company folded tomorrow the fund would not be sufficient for all future needs.

    They pay in the region of 10% of gross salary to their pensions for 40 years to be entitled to the full pension.


  • Advertisement
  • #252
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Because that is what they signed up to with their workers. Simple.
    They are making plenty of profits.

    It's not simple at all - if it was why did they wait 3 years to go to court. please tell me this, you keep saying it's simple, you don't work in pensions, you have no idea of the in's and out's of schemes, your looking in from the outside.

    Please explain to me how exactly the pension industry works, where does the money go, how are the pensions paid out?


  • #253
    Frankie5Angels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭Frankie5Angels


    hansfrei wrote: »
    No it doesn't. ESB is selling assets I own for me. Why the feck would the government give my money to a pension company?

    ESB is selling your assets? Like what, your car, house...what?


  • #254
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,164 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    suave.4u wrote: »
    Have you guys seen the ESB Sportsco Club; should say it is one of the best with many many amenities.
    These guys get discount there as well.

    What discount? When I worked there it was €2.50 paid per week, and €400 on top of that for the gym alone. €530 a year. In Energie gym at the moment I'm paying €360 a year for gym and pool.


  • #255
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,755 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    It's not simple at all - if it was why did they wait 3 years to go to court. please tell me this, you keep saying it's simple, you don't work in pensions, you have no idea of the in's and out's of schemes, your looking in from the outside.

    Please explain to me how exactly the pension industry works, where does the money go, how are the pensions paid out?

    Google it yourself.


  • #256
    hansfrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Because that is what they signed up to with their workers. Simple.
    They are making plenty of profits.

    Now seriously TL. Listen to yourself. Are you asking me to do an Anglo and bail out a pension company employed by the ESB?

    That €600m isnt theirs.

    The pension company should not be bailed out by the Irish taxpayer. Your fellow brother workers.


  • #257
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,755 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    hansfrei wrote: »
    Now seriously TL. Listen to yourself. Are you asking me to do an Anglo and bail out a pension company employed by the ESB?

    That €600m isnt theirs.

    The pension company should not be bailed out by the Irish taxpayer. Your fellow brother workers.

    Did the company not renege on their promises?


  • #258
    hansfrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    Frankie5Angels wrote: »
    ESB is selling your assets? Like what, your car, house...what?

    Look if you're going to troll, take a hike and let the big boys talk. You know the building you work in isn't yours.


  • #259
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Would employees vote to increase contributions and to not get an increase in wages for next 10 years to plug the gap?

    In fact that is what ESB workers did vote for but with a 5 year wage freeze. They also agreed a reduction in pay and pension entitlements in 2010.


  • #260
    hansfrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Did the company not renege on their promises?

    No.

    They said they'd look after it. They employed a company to do just that. A pension company. If the pension company made too much money would they come banging down my door to give me some cash?


  • #261
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    Jaysus, ????

    Very informative post.


  • Advertisement
  • #262
    Frankie5Angels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭Frankie5Angels


    hansfrei wrote: »
    Look if you're going to troll, take a hike and let the big boys talk. You know the building you work in isn't yours.

    If you think I'm trolling, report the post.

    You've completely lost the run of yourself, in an argument about a situation which you've already admitted you don't fully understand. You're now somehow claiming that the assets of ESB somehow belong to you and that you'll be expected to bail out any shortfall in the company's pension fund, both of which are far removed from reality.

    'Big boys' indeed.


  • #263
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    Jett Nervous Pen wrote: »
    Very informative post.

    Ref. post 252.


  • #264
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Did the company not renege on their promises?

    Did the ESB worker who cannot afford to pay his mortgage renege of his contract with the bank? should he and all others to reneged be forced out of their houses. Or is that different despite the fact they signed the contract, just like ESB and companies did.


  • #265
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    hansfrei wrote: »
    No.

    They said they'd look after it. They employed a company to do just that. A pension company. If the pension company made too much money would they come banging down my door to give me some cash?

    Care to say what company was employed to solve the deficit problem, as the ESB Pension fund is managed by The ESB Superannuation Committee? In house.

    Not aimed at you but I am always astounded at the lack of information people have when they attack anybody with something they themselves do not have. Begrudgery will be the ruination of this country.

    Someone complained about their discounts at ESB yet who complains when buying a pint, because Diagio give free drink to their employees?


  • #266
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Averi Mango Villain wrote: »
    In fact that is what ESB workers did vote for but with a 5 year wage freeze. They also agreed a reduction in pay and pension entitlements in 2010.

    So what your saying is they did their part of the agreement in 2010, along with the ESB - paying in nearly €600m, but now they want the ESB to pay more in, should they therefore increase their contributions and take a longer freeze in wages?


  • #267
    hansfrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    Frankie5Angels wrote: »
    If you think I'm trolling, report the post.

    You've completely lost the run of yourself, in an argument about a situation which you've already admitted you don't fully understand. You're now somehow claiming that the assets of ESB somehow belong to you and that you'll be expected to bail out any shortfall in the company's pension fund, both of which are far removed from reality.

    'Big boys' indeed.

    Tell me about it so. Post #10 is clearly bollox BTW.


  • #268
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Averi Mango Villain wrote: »
    They pay in the region of 10% of gross salary to their pensions for 40 years to be entitled to the full pension.

    yep, and so should the other people who gambled on a pension but they dont have a Union to throw a hissy fit on their behalf.

    why should ESB workers be allowed to hold the country to ransom, when for example a non unionised private company workforce just have to accept that s*it happens.


  • #269
    hansfrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    Averi Mango Villain wrote: »
    Care to say what company was employed to solve the deficit problem, as the ESB Pension fund is managed by The ESB Superannuation Committee? In house.

    Not aimed at you but I am always astounded at the lack of information people have when they attack anybody with something they themselves do not have. Begrudgery will be the ruination of this country.

    Someone complained about their discounts at ESB yet who complains when buying a pint, because Diagio give free drink to their employees?

    What do you mean, begrudgery? I ha e a half decent job and a pension. I don't expect that pension is worth a damn. Thats the facts. Now tell me again why the governmentshould hand over €600m of my moneyto your pension company.


  • #270
    grainnewhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭grainnewhale


    If I spent my whole life working in the ESB. Who are we kidding nobody ever worked in the ESB. Maybe if they hadn't spent all the money on gravy, they could afford dessert.


  • Advertisement
  • #271
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Google it yourself.

    No cause I have a good understanding, but I want you to explain to prove how little knowledge you have of the situation.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement