Teachers and unrurly pupils.

Gerry T wrote: »

Dealing with young children is tough, I manage a young soccer team-it can be hair pulling at times. Told parents that messer's would be put to the side so others could get on with things--parents reaction wasn't great so that idea was abandoned. At 40k I think teachers do deserve that, even 50k would be fair. Only gripe would be the time taken during term for "in planning" or "teachers" meetings. That could easily be done the last day of each holiday. Plus teachers should have SMART goals, they should be able to show how they have a study plan for children struggling and how they are able to work around these difficulties. If a teacher isn't very good then they shouldn't get pay rises, simple as that.
But what about 3rd level lecturers ? can't they earn up to 90k a yr, have max 16 hrs contact a week, some as little as 4hrs a week with "research" taking up alot of time ? that to me is 2 much for that type of job.

Other than that gripe I think its very unfair to bash teachers as much as they do get bashed on threads here.

3rd level lectures generally have PhD's They will have worked about 8 years to get that qualification. And 4-5 of them will be post graduate work. Most teachers have 1 year post graduate work. Thanks to cutbacks most lecturers will actually be correcting their students essays whereas 10 years ago they had postgrads do it for them. (Edit: btw, starting grade as a junior lecturer is 39k a year)

I think what pisses me off the most about teachers getting paid so much is that there's no real oversight. We hear that they have to spend most of the summer preparing for the new year. if that's the case, they should be going into work. They should clock in and be able to account for their time. The same goes for after class work. If they need to do it, they should stay in work. they should account for their time.

Can you imagine one profession where you get paid for hours without actually having to account for them? Doctors have to account for their time in a hospital as do nurses. police, firemen ambulance drivers etc... all get paid for the hours that they work and can prove they work. And if a doctor needs to get upskilled, they do it in their own time. they don't claim extra holidays every summer that they need for it and then maybe decide if they'll do it. Teachers are the only ones who get away with just saying it.

kristian12 wrote: »

Oh and don't forget the holidays yeah they are great, think thats why i spent 4 years at uni

I was only joking :rolleyes:

If it's that easy and and that overpaid, why don't we just get the first few thousand unemployed people who aren't on the sex-offenders register to do it? For feck's sake you could turn it into a jobbridge and save millions.

I have no idea how secondary teachers can do it. I think back to how it was when I was in secondary school (20 years ago) and cringe for them as I imagine students are worse now.

gramar wrote: »

I was in technical drawing one day and we had to draw circles and the like. While everyone else had one of those fancy compasses with the wheel in the middle to adjust the diameter I had one of those ****ty basic ones that was really loose so drawing a perfect circle was nearly impossible as it slid all over the place. The teacher (may he rest in peace) saw my dreadful effort picked up my ****ty compass and drew a perfect circle and then jabbed me in the hand with it before leaving it on the desk and heading off for a fag. He drew blood and all!

I had two secondary school teachers that would get locked and mark exams together. You'd always get the exact same mark for both history and geography because of this.

They were also the teachers that specialised on corporal punishment. You'd get a slap, a ruler on the knuckles or a wigging depending upon your answer in class.
Crazy thing is, when i look back, they weren't the worst teachers I had.

Gerry T wrote: »

I'm not getting at teachers/lecturers, I think the Job is hard. €40 to €50k sounds fair for a teacher and possibly up to €70k for a good lecturer is fair. Yes the €90k posts are probably shutting down, I know 3 at that level. One lecturer in UCD and two in DIT, all lecturing at degree level. Two got PHD's late in life, the other is still at degree education himself. Not that any of that really affects their teaching abilities. I wouldn't disregard a lecturer with only a degree himself. If they can at minimum know the course material & have an ability to explain & impart knowledge. Maybe foster a self learning & questioning attitude IMO they don't need a PHD.
As for unruly pupils, is it really a teacher/lecturers job to deal with these kids. Is it not more the parents responsibility ? why should a teacher spend time trying to deal with this, the other students in the class suffer. Should parents be brought more into the solution to change children's/pupils behaviour. Should we expect teachers to be "teachers" and also managing the group dynamics. Parents I think should br brought more into the solution for unruly children.

I mentioned earlier, I don't think that a teacher should, or is qualified, to deal with a particularly bad student. Some of these kids are really messed up and a 1 year postgrad in education isn't enough. Those kids need people who are specialised at dealing with troublesome kids.

I think a starting wage of 25-30k is a good start for a teacher. It's in line with the starting level in other professions. They should be paid per hour and this includes extra time that they have to spend. So if they have to spend 5 hours one night correcting stuff, they should get paid for those 5 hours. But they should also be able to account for that time. Paying extra because we assume they might have to do this is just silly.

Boombastic wrote: »

yes. most of the unemployed can not open a door and this necessitates door opening training.

Here, come on - we need to make sure. We can't just take on anybody.


(Or can we? That was, effectively, your point, wasn't it....)