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Teachers and unrurly pupils.

  • 14-11-2013 08:10AM
    #1
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭


    Anyone any insight into how hard teachers have it nowadays with little scrotes in secondary school?

    I can only imagine it ain't easy, back in my day when everything was in black and white, there was some serious little troublemakers, I presume things are a lot worst seems they seem to have bred at a faster rate since then.

    Edit-unruly.


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    gramar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,045 ✭✭✭✭gramar


    It takes a fair amount of balls to put yourself in front of 25-30 teenagers for 6 or 7 hours a day.

    I'd say things have definitely gotten worse since I was in secondary school about 20 years ago. The students are bigger bastards than ever and the teachers have less liberty to deal with troublesome students and are probably afraid to do much anyway as students and parents report things that wouldn't have raised an eyebrow a few years ago.


  • #3
    Balmed Out
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,710 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    A big difference is 20 years ago a teacher calls in parents about a pupil underachieving or misbehaving and the parents would give out to the child, now days the parents will give out to the teacher. Seems to be more so the less the parents actually see the children.

    Other problem is before all the kids were of one culture and spoke English fluently. Now days one class room in any urban centre or small town with a refugee centre and you may have several different european and african nationalities many of whom with little English. We had been quite well set up to deal with this but with recent cutbacks less so apparently.


  • #4
    dodderangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Anyone any insight into how hard teachers have it.

    Well the amount of female teachers having sex with students I reckon they do ok


  • #5
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    Wonder would something like cameras in the classroom work, I mean there everywhere we go now so what's the difference.

    3 strikes and you're out of the school, what's the point in wasting time and effort on pupils who don't want to learn and are only holding other pupils back from their goals.


  • #6
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »

    Edit-unruly.

    :)


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  • #7
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭No Pants


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Wonder would something like cameras in the classroom work, I mean there everywhere we go now so what's the difference.

    3 strikes and you're out of the school, what's the point in wasting time and effort on pupils who don't want to learn and are only holding other pupils back from their goals.
    Cameras won't solve the problem as that particular problem doesn't exist. It's the available sanctions that need work.


  • #8
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Anyone any insight into how hard teachers have it nowadays

    Yeah.
    The short working week.
    High rates of pay.
    Job for life
    Gold-plated pensions.
    3 months holidays.

    My heart bleeds.


  • #9
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Frank Black wrote: »
    Yeah.
    The short working week.
    High rates of pay.
    Job for life
    Gold-plated pensions.
    3 months holidays.

    My heart bleeds.

    I've heard horror stories from people in dodgy schools in Limerick. that's a hellish job. But on the other side I went to a little primary school where the curriculum was the same every year. Those are two different jobs. i think in the hell hole they deserve to be paid well and probably need 3 months holidays but in the tiny primary school they are grossly over paid. The same goes for most teachers.
    hell, i don't think teachers should even be sent to those horrible schools. they're not trained or equipped for it. It's like asking a paramedic to perform surgery.


  • #10
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭No Pants


    If you think teachers are expensive, just get someone else to look after your kids 5 days a week and educate them.


  • #11
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    No Pants wrote: »
    If you think teachers are expensive, just get someone else to look after your kids 5 days a week and educate them.

    Because that's how rates of pay should be calculated people.
    :rolleyes:


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  • #12
    dazed+confused
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭dazed+confused


    I thought that schools had become unruly nightmares, a world apart form "my day". However I went back to my secondary school to teach a course and i was pleasantly surprised by what I found.

    Yes the teachers are definitely stricter than the were and the discpline seems to be a bit more pro-active but the students are well behaved and mannerly. That doesn't make for a good whinge though, so I'm going to be contradicted.

    People like bashing the generation below them. They have it too easy, we had to work for what we had....


  • #13
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Frank Black wrote: »
    Because that's how rates of pay should be calculated people.
    :rolleyes:
    It's one way that it could be calculated. Not a very good way as there's no economy of scale. My point is that a teacher performs multiple roles that themselves are not normally cheap.

    I'm not a teacher, my wife is not a teacher and I don't have any kids. I don't care how much teachers are paid, it's not enough to tempt me into doing it. Not because of the kids themselves, I just couldn't be bothered dealing with parents.


  • #14
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    There was a cross eyed teacher in our local school.


    Apparently she couldn't control her pupils.


  • #15
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    Frank Black wrote: »
    Yeah.
    The short working week.
    High rates of pay.
    Job for life
    Gold-plated pensions.
    3 months holidays.

    My heart bleeds.

    :( YAWN

    did you come up with this extremely relevant point to the topic all on your own or did you have to search and choose from the other thousands of posts/threads that has the word "teacher" in it?

    well done...


  • #16
    keano25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭keano25


    Frank Black wrote: »
    Yeah.
    The short working week.
    High rates of pay.
    Job for life
    Gold-plated pensions.
    3 months holidays.

    My heart bleeds.

    Brace yourself :)


  • #17
    martinedwards
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭martinedwards


    Frank Black wrote: »
    Yeah.
    The short working week.
    High rates of pay.
    Job for life
    Gold-plated pensions.
    3 months holidays.

    My heart bleeds.
    that's original.

    and far from accurate.

    schools vary hugely. and all have their own stresses. Some have a load of evil scrotes whose parents think the sun sines out of them and they can do no wrong. they leave school with nothing but anger and hatred.

    some have loads of highly motivated hard working students whose parents come down on the teacher like a ton of bricks because there isn't enough 2 hour homeworks being set.

    addressing your points.....

    short working week does not include the preparation and marking. My Mrs was marking til 1am this morning. that's not a short week in anyones book

    High rates of pay? OK, not TOO bad, 40k for a 60 hour week graduate. better than some, but a lot less than others.

    Job for life? utter crap. in my area the population is falling and there are fewer kids in the system. guess what, they need fewer teachers. the school I taught in had 8 redundancies in the last 5 years.

    Gold plated pensions? well, final salary pensions. like a load of other jobs.

    3 months holidays.

    OOOOOOHHH yes!!


  • #18
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Its all about control and respect in the classroom,we messed a good bit in school but there were some teachers you knew not to step out of line with


  • #19
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    To save me the bother of copying and pasting my posts, that address exactly the same points that have been brought up again in this thread -

    Last weeks teacher bashing thread.


  • #20
    Gerry T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    martinedwards wrote: »
    that's original.

    and far from accurate.

    schools vary hugely. and all have their own stresses. Some have a load of evil scrotes whose parents think the sun sines out of them and they can do no wrong. they leave school with nothing but anger and hatred.

    some have loads of highly motivated hard working students whose parents come down on the teacher like a ton of bricks because there isn't enough 2 hour homeworks being set.

    addressing your points.....

    short working week does not include the preparation and marking. My Mrs was marking til 1am this morning. that's not a short week in anyones book

    High rates of pay? OK, not TOO bad, 40k for a 60 hour week graduate. better than some, but a lot less than others.

    Job for life? utter crap. in my area the population is falling and there are fewer kids in the system. guess what, they need fewer teachers. the school I taught in had 8 redundancies in the last 5 years.

    Gold plated pensions? well, final salary pensions. like a load of other jobs.

    3 months holidays.

    OOOOOOHHH yes!!

    Dealing with young children is tough, I manage a young soccer team-it can be hair pulling at times. Told parents that messer's would be put to the side so others could get on with things--parents reaction wasn't great so that idea was abandoned. At 40k I think teachers do deserve that, even 50k would be fair. Only gripe would be the time taken during term for "in planning" or "teachers" meetings. That could easily be done the last day of each holiday. Plus teachers should have SMART goals, they should be able to show how they have a study plan for children struggling and how they are able to work around these difficulties. If a teacher isn't very good then they shouldn't get pay rises, simple as that.
    But what about 3rd level lecturers ? can't they earn up to 90k a yr, have max 16 hrs contact a week, some as little as 4hrs a week with "research" taking up alot of time ? that to me is 2 much for that type of job.

    Other than that gripe I think its very unfair to bash teachers as much as they do get bashed on threads here.


  • #21
    gramar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,045 ✭✭✭✭gramar


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Its all about control and respect in the classroom,we messed a good bit in school but there were some teachers you knew not to step out of line with

    In every school there were teachers that commanded silence and respect from the moment you walked into their classroom. Others who let you have a bit of fun but who could get you quiet and working when it was time to do so and others who couldn't keep order in a morgue.


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  • #22
    emmabrighton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭emmabrighton


    gramar wrote: »
    In every school there were teachers that commanded silence and respect from the moment you walked into their classroom. Others who let you have a bit of fun but who could get you quiet and working when it was time to do so and others who couldn't keep order in a morgue.

    Very witty good Sir! My hat's off to you...


  • #23
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    in fairness, in many schools the classrooms are not packed full of wild animals. School management and expectations have a lot to do with it, and parents attitudes of course, as well as the teachers skill


  • #24
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    gramar wrote: »
    In every school there were teachers that commanded silence and respect from the moment you walked into their classroom. Others who let you have a bit of fun but who could get you quiet and working when it was time to do so and others who couldn't keep order in a morgue.


    What an expression! :pac:


  • #25
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭No Pants


    gramar wrote: »
    In every school there were teachers that commanded silence and respect from the moment you walked into their classroom. Others who let you have a bit of fun but who could get you quiet and working when it was time to do so and others who couldn't keep order in a morgue.
    I had a teacher once who would pick up whatever was close to hand and throw it at the source of any disruption. Mostly it would be chalk, but occasionally it would be a duster or maybe a mallet (it was a practical room). Once it was a wood chisel.

    He was highly motivating and a great teacher, but can you imagine the ****storm this would cause nowadays?


  • #26
    gramar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,045 ✭✭✭✭gramar


    No Pants wrote: »
    I had a teacher once who would pick up whatever was close to hand and throw it at the source of any disruption. Mostly it would be chalk, but occasionally it would be a duster or maybe a mallet (it was a practical room). Once it was a wood chisel.

    He was highly motivating and a great teacher, but can you imagine the ****storm this would cause nowadays?


    I was in technical drawing one day and we had to draw circles and the like. While everyone else had one of those fancy compasses with the wheel in the middle to adjust the diameter I had one of those ****ty basic ones that was really loose so drawing a perfect circle was nearly impossible as it slid all over the place. The teacher (may he rest in peace) saw my dreadful effort picked up my ****ty compass and drew a perfect circle and then jabbed me in the hand with it before leaving it on the desk and heading off for a fag. He drew blood and all!


  • #27
    kristian12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭kristian12


    As a former teacher both in the UK and here, teaching both Primary and Secondary in both i often hear the old "short week high pay long holiday" argument. Well I never ruled my classroom with an iron rod and was quite proud when a group of primary school kids i'd taught went into Secondary with my son and said i was a "sound teacher but i made them work". Respect in the classroom isn't always about shouting and punishing but more about talking and pushing the students.

    My working day started at 8.30 on the days i didn't have yard duty in the mornings and finished on a good day at 9pm, because as a teacher you don't just role up at 9am and walk out at 3pm. Somebody has to make sure the work is prepared for the next day/week, somebody has to mark the work, somebody has records to keep on the students progress and it sure as hell isn't the dinner lady that does all this ;)

    Pay varies and is subjective to what we think is a good wage, €40,000 a year sounds great until you take the tax out of it but even without the tax it equates to €760 a week for an average 50hr week for a decent teacher so not bad but not really worth the earache when we tell the parents your little angel is a demon child and they say oh no not our precious one she wouldn't do that :rolleyes:

    Oh and don't forget the holidays yeah they are great, think thats why i spent 4 years at uni :D:D:D


  • #28
    Gerry T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    gramar wrote: »
    I was in technical drawing one day and we had to draw circles and the like. While everyone else had one of those fancy compasses with the wheel in the middle to adjust the diameter I had one of those ****ty basic ones that was really loose so drawing a perfect circle was nearly impossible as it slid all over the place. The teacher (may he rest in peace) saw my dreadful effort picked up my ****ty compass and drew a perfect circle and then jabbed me in the hand with it before leaving it on the desk and heading off for a fag. He drew blood and all!

    But did you learn how to draw a circle with the ****ty compass :)


  • #29
    deadeye187
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 988 ✭✭✭deadeye187


    The standard of teaching I have seen is shocking!....The job should be performance based!

    No if my kid is unrurly and the teacher said anything out of line to them, I would go to that teacher and use my fists to make dust of their teeth!


  • #30
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    kristian12 wrote: »
    ...

    My working day started at 8.30 on the days i didn't have yard duty in the mornings and finished on a good day at 9pm, because as a teacher you don't just role up at 9am and walk out at 3pm. Somebody has to make sure the work is prepared for the next day/week, somebody has to mark the work, somebody has records to keep on the students progress and it sure as hell isn't the dinner lady that does all this ;)

    ...

    Oh and don't forget the holidays yeah they are great, think thats why i spent 4 years at uni :D:D:D


    Ahh jesus! :(


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  • #31
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    kristian12 wrote: »
    As a former teacher both in the UK and here, teaching both Primary and Secondary in both i often hear the old "short week high pay long holiday" argument. Well I never ruled my classroom with an iron rod and was quite proud when a group of primary school kids i'd taught went into Secondary with my son and said i was a "sound teacher but i made them work". Respect in the classroom isn't always about shouting and punishing but more about talking and pushing the students.

    My working day started at 8.30 on the days i didn't have yard duty in the mornings and finished on a good day at 9pm, because as a teacher you don't just role up at 9am and walk out at 3pm. Somebody has to make sure the work is prepared for the next day/week, somebody has to mark the work, somebody has records to keep on the students progress and it sure as hell isn't the dinner lady that does all this ;)

    Pay varies and is subjective to what we think is a good wage, €40,000 a year sounds great until you take the tax out of it but even without the tax it equates to €760 a week for an average 50hr week for a decent teacher so not bad but not really worth the earache when we tell the parents your little angel is a demon child and they say oh no not our precious one she wouldn't do that :rolleyes:

    Oh and don't forget the holidays yeah they are great, think thats why i spent 4 years at uni :D:D:D


    did you include the holidays when working out your average weekly hours? Calculations seem a little off because you've only included the holidays in one side of the equation



    D- :(


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