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Religious child

12357…13

Comments

  • #122
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    J C wrote: »
    Once again making gratuitously insulting comments doesn't add to your case - so please desist, for your own sake, if nobody else's.
    You offer no evidence why your 'faith' is right. You offer no proof. You just keep on hammering away at your idiotic beliefs.I am not insulting you at all - I am simply describing your beliefs accurately. You offer no evidence that they are true and are encouraging a child to be filled with lies.
    I'm not proselytising ... I'm merely making observations and offering legitimate opinion ... which is in line with forum rules and the etiquette of all civil debate
    . You are not debating anything. You are not offering any argument as to the veracity of your 'belief'. You are just restating the same thing over and over again.The gratuitousness is coming from you and no one else.
    It is indeed fair comment to state that this child has apparently heard all about Atheism from her Atheist parents
    Actually no it is not. Where in any post by the OP have they made any mention of discussing atheism with this child ?

    ... and she has heard about Roman Catholicism somewhere else ... and she appears to have chosen to practice Roman Catholicism.
    A child of this age is no more able to make a choice over religion that a choice over sex. Do you say she has a right to have sex too ?
    It is indeed the mirror image of what happens to some children reared in Christian homes.
    .... and it's all part of living in a multi-cultural society ... and personal free-will and choice ... that we have all become accustomed to.
    No it is not. Your only interest is in brain washing children - which adds up to child abuse.
    If your thesis is correct and a few hours spent with her granny has converted her to Christianity despite living in an Atheist home 24/7, then she must be a very persuasive granny ... or perhaps its what she has told this child is that has made the difference.
    No. She is a small child. Something that your appalling religion has taken advantage of for too long.


  • #123
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    J C wrote: »
    This a spirtiual matter ... this child is choosing to follow a particular spiritual path. The Human Spirit is eternal - and thus ageless - and a spiritual decision can be therefore made by a person at almost any age - even young children.

    ... so are Christians welcome or not on this forum?
    ... or is this an Atheist-only forum?

    Atheists present non-God and indeed anti-God responses - so why should God-based responses be a problem ... especially, when the subject of this thread involves a child who appears to have become a Christian?
    FFS God isnt an answer. The human soul isnt an answer. The childhood faith stage means she is merely imitating what she is shown. She hasnt chosen, someone decided to convert her, she is a child. Its not hard to make a child believe in fairytales (Santa, Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny). Is that so hard to comprehend or must we entertain this supernatural nonsense some more.

    I believe if I went onto a Christian forum and told them God isn't real on a thread is comparable to a Christian saying "only God knows" or God called her on an atheist thread. Its antagonising. Nowhere did I say atheist only.


  • #124
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by GarIT
    If a child wants to be Christian they need to be taught of the murder and daily sheep sacrifices that is expected of them [...]


    robindch
    And that bit about not wearing "clothing woven of two types of cloth". After all, the bible is all about rules that never change, isn't it?

    http://biblehub.com/leviticus/19-19.htm
    Robin. You're conflating OT Mosaic Law with Christian Grace where none of these Laws apply.
    This child has become a Christian, by all accounts ... and neither murder nor sheep sacrifice have any role within her new Christian Faith.


  • #125
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    J C wrote: »
    Brainwashing is found within all faiths and none. It's certainly not the unique preserve of any individual or group of people.
    ... or perhaps in some cases one persons 'reasoned argument' is another persons 'brainwashing'.

    You clearly are separated from reality. Religion is the home of brain washing. Religion and Sects, which are essentially the same thing.


  • #126
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    J C wrote: »
    This child has become a Christian, by all accounts ...

    What utter offensive nonsense. This child has no capability to 'become' any fairy story's label. She is a small child. Clearly you have no concept of what that means and care only about proselytising.


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  • #127
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    smacl wrote: »
    But given that the parents here are atheists, and we're in an atheist forum, we're working with the basic premise that God doesn't exist. If the question had been asked over in the Christianity or Islam forum for example, it would generate a very different discussion.
    Why would it generate a significantly different discussion?
    Atheists post with almost the same frequency over on the Christianity Forum as they do here on the A & A.
    smacl wrote: »
    Given that God doesn't exist, we're back to the situation that someone is trying to indoctrinate a young child with religious beliefs without the consent of her parents. That is not a nice thing to do, regardless of the final outcome, but does happen all to regularly in this country. If it is the grandparents, I don't doubt they're doing it in what they believe are the best interests of the child, but it still both wrong and underhand, and needs to be dealt with.
    If this child has committed her life to Jesus Christ then that is an irreversible spiritual commitment that nobody can undo and she is counted amongst the Saved.
    Indoctination of children cuts both ways. In our increasingly Materialistic and Atheistic society, Christian children are just as likely to receive indoctination in Practical Atheism as childfren from Athsist homes receiving religious indoctrination.
    ... and in many situations one persons 'indoctrination' ... is another persons 'reasoned argument'.


  • #128
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    Piliger wrote: »
    You clearly are separated from reality. Religion is the home of brain washing. Religion and Sects, which are essentially the same thing.

    2FuKhT8.gif

    *may have nicked this from another thread I saw on here :P


  • #129
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Piliger wrote: »
    You clearly are separated from reality. Religion is the home of brain washing. Religion and Sects, which are essentially the same thing.
    Funny thing ... but some people of faith tell me that Atheism is the home of brainwashing ... with North Korea being the most blatant example.
    I think, like many things, the truth lies somewhere in between ... and people of both faith and none have engaged in their fair share of brainwashing down the years.

    Brainwashing is a word that can be thrown about with impunity ... as anybody who tries to persuade somebody else of their opinion can always be accused of 'brainwashing'.

    Like I have said, if you listen to the 'brainwashing' coming from all sides you can end up with a remakably clean brain and surprisingly good clarity of thought.


  • #130
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by J C View Post
    This child has become a Christian, by all accounts ...


    Piliger
    What utter offensive nonsense. This child has no capability to 'become' any fairy story's label. She is a small child. Clearly you have no concept of what that means and care only about proselytising.
    She is a young child with an ageless spirit.
    There is no welfare issue with this child.
    She is living in an Atheist home and she appears to have become a Christian ... so both her temporal and eternal welfare is assured.
    I don't see where there is any issue/problem for this child.

    ... and I can't see any reason why you are offended by this child becoming a Christian.

    I wouldn't be offended if she stayed an Atheist ... I'd respect her free-will in this regard.


  • #131
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    J C wrote: »
    Funny thing ... but most people of faith tell me that Atheism is the home of brainwashing ... with North Korea being the most blatant example.

    Please tell me your doing this on purpose.....

    You have offered no advice to the atheist parent but to say God dunnit or that a 10 year old has made the choice to worry about her parents destiny and start praying independently and without any encouragement from another party.


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  • #132
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    J C wrote: »
    She is a young child with an ageless spirit.
    There is no welfare issue with this child. She is living in an Atheist home and she appears to have become a Christian ... so both her temporal and eternal welfare is assured.
    I don't see where there is any issue/problem for this child.

    Oh my.... how is this helping the atheist parent. Her child is being duped into believing fairy tales. Yet here you are talking about the human soul and eternal welfare like its fact.


  • #133
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,174 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Days 298 wrote: »
    Please tell me your doing this on purpose...

    I have no doubt that he is. It is a classic J C trolling tactic to spew repetitive bullsh*t.


  • #134
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭Days 298


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    I have no doubt that he is. It is a classic J C trolling tactic to spew repetitive bullsh*t.

    It think I may just have the QFT your prophecy from yesterday :pac:
    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    If you try to reason with J C, you're going to have a bad time.


  • #135
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Days 298 wrote: »
    Please tell me your doing this on purpose.....

    You have offered no advice to the atheist parent but to say God dunnit or that a 10 year old has made the choice to worry about her parents destiny and start praying independently and without any encouragement from another party.
    I'd say that the Atheist parent doesn't need to worry about her child, if her child has become a Christian.
    She is still her child and it's just a spiritual issue, (that the parent doesn't believe to exist).

    ... and I did balance my comment on brainwashing by saying that brainwashing has been engaged in by both people of faith and none ... which I note was truncated in your quote.


  • #136
    Gone West
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,374 ✭✭✭Gone West


    J C wrote: »
    I'd say that the Atheist parent doesn't need to worry about her child, if her child has become a Christian.
    She is still their child and it's just a spiritual issue, that the parent doesn't even believe to exist.
    Yeah but the life half spent believing in things that don't exist is REAL time that you are wasting. Time is precious enough without spending your life wishing to your imagination.


  • #137
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Days 298 wrote: »
    Oh my.... how is this helping the atheist parent. Her child is being duped into believing fairy tales. Yet here you are talking about the human soul and eternal welfare like its fact.
    I'm talking about it as fact as I believe it to be so.
    You are quite entitled to dissent.
    The child has become a Christian ... and she has been no more 'duped' into believing in God than she was 'duped' when she didn't.


  • #138
    Gone West
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,374 ✭✭✭Gone West


    J C wrote: »
    The child has become a Christian ... and she has been no more 'duped' into believing in God than she was duped when she didn't.
    Did she spontaneously become one?
    Or was it that some adults she trusted told her fairy-tales?


  • #139
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    I have no doubt that he is. It is a classic J C trolling tactic to spew repetitive bullsh*t.
    Giving one's opinion, as a Christian, isn't trolling.
    ... and, for the removal of doubt, neither is it trolling, for an Atheist to give their opinion, from an Atheistic perspective.


  • #140
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Fuzzy wrote: »
    Did she spontaneously become one?
    Or was it that some adults she trusted told her fairy-tales?
    I don't actually know ... but I'd speculate that Human Beings told her of God ... and she has freely believed on Him herself.

    As for your 'fairy tales' comment ... I'd say that she looked at the altenative 'fairy tale' and she didn't like the fact that nobody 'lived happily ever after' in it!!!:)
    This was one of the reasons that I decided to be Saved as well.


  • #141
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    J C wrote: »
    Why would it do so?
    Atheists post with almost the same frequency on the Christianity Forum as they do here of the A & A.

    They do indeed, and that sets a context. The OP in this case asked the question in an atheist forum, hence doubtless is looking for answers from an atheist point of view.
    If this child has committed her life to Jesus Christ then that is an irreversible spiritual commitment that nobody can undo and she is counted amongst the Saved.
    Indoctination of children cuts both ways. In our increasingly Materialistic and Atheistic society, Christian children are just as likely to receive indoctination in Practical Atheism as childfren from Athsist homes receiving religious indoctrination.
    ... and there is always situations where one persons 'indoctrination' ... is another persons 'reasoned argument'.

    There is of course, which is why it is very important to give your kids space to ask questions about anything and everything, rather than passing on articles of faith carved in stone. Outside of the fantasy that there is a magical omniscient being watching over you, the worry I'd have with indoctrinating a ten year old young child in the Catholic faith is the type of carrot and stick morality you're displaying above. Join the club, and you'll be saved, don't and you'll burn in hell for all eternity. Do good, because God is watching, and if you sin, you'll get caught and punished. For all the talk of love thy neighbor, there's so much more about guilt, fear and greed. I want my kids to be good, kind and generous out of respect for themselves and others, not our of greed for immortality or fear of torture everlasting.

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  • #142
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Fuzzy wrote: »
    Yeah but the life half spent believing in things that don't exist is REAL time that you are wasting. Time is precious enough without spending your life wishing to your imagination.
    Time is precious ... but eternity is even more precious - and this young child may have discovered this.
    .
    As for time wasting in this domain ... people waste a lot of time looking at other people keeping fit playing sports, looking at other people desporting themselves on TV ... the list is endless.

    ... so, even if you don't believe in God ... please allow us Christians the 'luxury' of 'wasting' a few hours a week on pursuing our faith.


  • #143
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    J C wrote: »
    Time is precious ... but eternity is even more precious - and this young child may have discovered this.
    .
    As for time wasting in this domain ... people waste a lot of time looking at other people keeping fit playing sports, looking at other people desporting themselves on TV ... the list is endless.

    ... so, even if you don't believe in God ... please allow us Christians the 'luxury' of 'wasting' a few hours a week on pursuing our faith.

    Then why don't you pursue it somewhere else. Your arrogant, self indulgent, pretentious, brainwashed, self serving proselytising is not wanted here.


  • #144
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    smacl wrote: »
    They do indeed, and that sets a context. The OP in this case asked the question in an atheist forum, hence doubtless is looking for answers from an atheist point of view.
    She probably is ... and so too is a Christian asking questions on the Christianity Forum.
    However, I see no harm in both people getting comments from people of a different point of view ... and unless the Christianity and the A & A 'mutually excommunicate' the members of each others faiths from commenting ... that is what will happen.
    In addition, the issue on this thread crosses over the 'faith divide' in that there is a Christian child as well as an Atheist parent involved here.
    smacl wrote: »
    There is of course, which is why it is very important to give your kids space to ask questions about anything and everything, rather than passing on articles of faith carved in stone. Outside of the fantasy that there is a magical omniscient being watching over you, the worry I'd have with indoctrinating a ten year old young child in the Catholic faith is the type of carrot and stick morality you're displaying above. Join the club, and you'll be saved, don't and you'll burn in hell for all eternity. Do good, because God is watching, and if you sin, you'll get caught and punished. For all the talk of love thy neighbor, there's so much more about guilt, fear and greed. I want my kids to be good, kind and generous out of respect for themselves and others, not our of greed for immortality or fear of torture everlasting.
    ... and I want exactly that for my children as well.
    However, I have found that sometimes the removal of priveliges (or at least, the threat of their removal) is required to obtain the desired good behaviour that I desire from my children. This is something that we both have in common.

    We are all subject to the 'carrot and stick' ... not only from God ... but from our fellow Human Beings as well ... and I don't think that Atheists are any exception.


  • #145
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Piliger wrote: »
    Then why don't you pursue it somewhere else. Your arrogant, self indulgent, pretentious, brainwashed, self serving proselytising is not wanted here.

    Ah now don't go speaking for all of us. J C is an invaluable part of this forum. For years he's been showing us the dangers of believing the barmy claptrap he believes, especially when it comes to evolution.

    He's also the perfect example of question dodging, goalpost moving, misrepresentationof facts and outright dishonesty you get from evangelist types.

    Make no mistake, we would all have to work much harder at explaining why religion is a bad idea without J C wandering in and doing his thing.


  • #146
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Piliger wrote: »
    Then why don't you pursue it somewhere else. Your arrogant, self indulgent, pretentious, brainwashed, self serving proselytising is not wanted here.
    ... I am not proselytising ... I'm merely one Christian (amongst many Atheists) giving my point of view in a civil respectful way on an issue affecting an Atheist parent and a Christian child.


  • #147
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sarky wrote: »
    Ah now don't go speaking for all of us. J C is an invaluable part of this forum. For years he's been showing us the dangers of believing the barmy claptrap he believes, especially when it comes to evolution.

    He's also the perfect example of question dodging, goalpost moving, misrepresentationof facts and outright dishonesty you get from evangelist types.

    Make no mistake, we would all have to work much harder at explaining why religion is a bad idea without J C wandering in and doing his thing.
    Always glad to help!!!:);)


  • #148
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Piliger wrote: »
    Then why don't you pursue it somewhere else. Your arrogant, self indulgent, pretentious, brainwashed, self serving proselytising is not wanted here.
    Are you just speaking on your own behalf ?
    Surely the A & A prizes the questioning (and perfecting) of all ideas (including the occasional deficient Atheist one)?

    ... or do you believe that all Atheistic ideas are created perfectly from the 'get go'?


  • #149
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    J C wrote: »
    We are all subject to the 'carrot and stick' ... not only from God ... but from our fellow Human Beings as well ... and I don't think that Atheists are any exception.

    I disagree, I think by removing God and religion we have a far better opportunity to develop morally beyond simple carrot and stick tactics. You've associated atheism and materialism in a previous post, but it is Christian morality that encourages people to be primarily motivated by self interest. Do good, and you go to heaven. Do bad and you go to hell. I'd be wary of letting a good atheist kid anywhere near a Catholic priest, as the priest would be teaching fear, guilt and selfish morals. Fine if that's what you want for you kids, but at this stage I think as an evolved society we can do so much better.

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  • #150
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Piliger wrote: »
    You offer no evidence why your 'faith' is right. You offer no proof. You just keep on hammering away at your idiotic beliefs.I am not insulting you at all - I am simply describing your beliefs accurately. You offer no evidence that they are true and are encouraging a child to be filled with lies.
    You should know full well that I am restricted from commenting on the veracity of my beliefs ... which the Mods have ruled (correctly IMO) to be off topic for this thread.

    Piliger wrote: »
    . You are not debating anything. You are not offering any argument as to the veracity of your 'belief'. You are just restating the same thing over and over again.The gratuitousness is coming from you and no one else.
    I am addressing the topic of the thread ... which isn't about the vercaity of anybodies beliefs.
    Piliger wrote: »
    Actually no it is not. Where in any post by the OP have they made any mention of discussing atheism with this child ?
    The same place they said that the granny told the child about God i.e. nowhere in the post. I was merely drawing a reasonable conclusion that a child, whose parents are Atheists is very likely to be exposed to Atheistic ideas and points of view ... just like you guys have reasonably speculated that somebody known to the child has told her of God.
    Piliger wrote: »
    A child of this age is no more able to make a choice over religion that a choice over sex. Do you say she has a right to have sex too ?
    A child of this age can ... and indeed, in the case in point, seems to have made her choice over her faith in God. Making a faith commitment to God is a matter within the spiritual sphere and temporal age is immaterial to it.

    This is a totally separate issue to sex or indeed other physical and temporal issues, where physical and psychological maturity is required.
    Piliger wrote: »
    No it is not. Your only interest is in brain washing children - which adds up to child abuse.
    This child made a faith commitment to God ... this is not child abuse ... and it is outrageous for you to claim such a thing.
    Would you say it was 'child abuse' if she was telling her parents that she didn't believe in God??
    If you wouldn't ... why do you call it 'child abuse' when she says the opposite?
    Piliger wrote: »
    No. She is a small child. Something that your appalling religion has taken advantage of for too long.
    Christianity is a Saving Faith in Jesus Christ ... nothing more or less.
    The tiny minority of perverts amongst Atheists or Christians do not condem the vast majority of honourable Atheists and Christians who protect and cherish children ... and don't abuse them.


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  • #151
    gaynorvader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭gaynorvader


    J C wrote: »
    {...}

    ... and I want exactly that for my children as well.
    However, I have found that sometimes the removal of priveliges (or at least, the threat of their removal) is required to obtain the desired good behaviour that I desire from my children. This is something that we both have in common.

    {...}

    33 posts, and this is the only one I could find containing advice to the parent as opposed to using this thread as a platform to preach your beliefs.


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