Examiner: Gardaí investigate forum comments about Roma

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 09-11-2013 08:42PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

Statistics are public and free to download.

On that precise subject, the law needs to be thrown out and rewritten, from TODAY on. The "Spirit of the Law" is too often lost, but in this case, no blasphemy law should exist.

I agree on the Blasphemy law, but no society should tolerate incitement to hatred.

crockholm · 09-11-2013 08:43PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

It can be when it is applied to human beings, inferring or stating they are vermin infers that they should be treated as such, vermin are a pest that it is ok to trap or kill.
Of course you know this already and are just on a wind up.

Honestly,I'm not. It is an interesting subject that will have an effect on all of those of us who communicate via the WWW.

All that happens if we decide that "vermin" is akin to incitement of hatred, is that there is going to be a sh1tstorm of semantics used, a rat is vermin,yet if I were to call a person a rat there would be no presumption that I wanted the lad murdered,it's a colloqualism for one who "squeals"
Pigeon has a similar meaning and squirrel can describe one who saves wisely-yet all are considered vermin.

Therefore I go back to the first post where I mentioned that Man 1 is clearly guilty,but man 2 (whilst derogatory) says nothing illegal.

Thats my 2 cent.

Also,just to be sure-I do not agree with describing any whole race,gender,orientation etc etc, as vermin. I believe it is wrong, though should be legal.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 09-11-2013 08:45PM

crockholm wrote: »

Honestly,I'm not. It is an interesting subject that will have an effect on all of those of us who communicate via the WWW.

All that happens if we decide that "vermin" is akin to incitement of hatred, is that there is going to be a sh1tstorm of semantics used, a rat is vermin,yet if I were to call a person a rat there would be no presumption that I wanted the lad murdered,it's a colloqualism for one who "squeals"
Pigeon has a similar meaning and squirrel can describe one who saves wisely-yet all are considered vermin.

Therein lies the crux, context is everything.

crockholm · 09-11-2013 08:47PM

infosys wrote: »

Without an asshole we would all burst and die but it's not a nice thing to call someone.

I believe that from time to time I am quite deserving of said epithet:o

crockholm · 09-11-2013 08:48PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Therein lies the crux, context is everything.

Agreed

LionelNashe · 09-11-2013 08:56PM

This Roma thread is very civil. What have you all done with the real After Hours?

Red Nissan · 09-11-2013 08:56PM

crockholm wrote: »

Also,just to be sure-I do not agree with describing any whole race,gender,orientation etc etc, as vermin. I believe it is wrong, though should be legal.

Yes, should be legal. One may find that the majority of those races described are accurate, ie the Irish as drunken brawlers, even this very year, Australia, possibly our BEST ally, banned our young from emigrating because they upheld the stereotype.

We also have an embarrassing representation in our elected TDs in drunk driving incidents, again, enforcing the stereotype.

Truth be told, whilst there may be a minority causing trouble, the majority will tolerate it.

Red Nissan · 09-11-2013 09:02PM

LionelNashe wrote: »

This Roma thread is very civil. What have you all done with the real After Hours?

It's been banned and legislated out of existence. I've also joined that hate irish site, not that I hate irish, just so I can actually say something and have a banter.

Boards ie are under a microscope. I have called three times in the past that anonymity has to go in boards, but they reject this. I firmly believe we should all post out driving licenses or especially student cards as id.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 09-11-2013 09:08PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

It's been banned and legislated out of existence. I've also joined that hate irish site, not that I hate irish, just so I can actually say something and have a banter.

Boards ie are under a microscope. I have called three times in the past that anonymity has to go in boards, but they reject this. I firmly believe we should all post out driving licenses or especially student cards as id.

Admit it you have finished the second bottle now, go on you have, you know you have:D

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 09-11-2013 09:09PM

LionelNashe wrote: »

This Roma thread is very civil. What have you all done with the real After Hours?

Well don't tell anyone but its the Mods night off tonight, so we have decided to be very good boys and girls, and not cause any trouble;)

Red Nissan · 09-11-2013 09:10PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Admit it you have finished the second bottle now, go on you have, you know you have:D

It is taking me five attempts to type something remotely legible.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 09-11-2013 09:14PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

It is taking me five attempts to type something remotely legible.

Wait till I hit the Bushmills:D

darkpagandeath · 09-11-2013 09:24PM

LionelNashe wrote: »

Your post reads like you're objecting to a new law being brought in; the incitment to hatred act is from 1989.

I think it is needed. It's happened too many times in the 20th century that minorities have been decimated or sectarian factions have engaged in blood-lettings. I'm sure I've seen a couple of stories of Roma families being burned out their homes in Belfast in the last 10 years or so, and wasn't there a family of 4 catholic or protestant boys (can't remember which) burned to death as well somewhere around the border. Loose talk that describes people as animals or vermin or subhuman is how this can start.

I know the law has been out for a while. My Point is why is it needed why does it have to be us and them so to speak. Are we all not human after all ?. (Insert race) hits (Insert race) that is not the same, one punches the other some would advocate it a hate crime as it was 2 different races. That is covered by assault why does it have to be assault and hate crime ? Why are (Insert Religious/group) protesting and inciting people not hate crimes ? Yet if i stood on the street with a sign insert (Religion/group) pointing out intolerance i would be the one inciting hatred. These are just a few examples. Too many people pull out the Race/hate card now to silence debate on issues that are sensitive. If you don't agree with this uber rainbow hugging holding hands pc agenda your obviously a racist or a bigot or just intolerant.

And yes Racism/bigotry and all that are bad just keep this stuff in context. Not everything is a hate crime or Racist just because a group shouts loud enough about an issue.

crockholm · 09-11-2013 10:11PM

Please don't beat me for dragging it OT,but since it is remotely related-Police in Chicago and other big American cities have their own specialist units to deal with on-line feuds that potentially end with fatalaties.That's good proactive policework that prevents crime.

Gatling · 10-11-2013 01:48AM

Does anybody really care what someone thinks or says on a private forum

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 10-11-2013 01:56AM

Gatling wrote: »

Does anybody really care what someone thinks or says on a private forum

Yes.
Particularly when it incites hatred.

RightofWay22 · 10-11-2013 02:03AM

Gatling wrote: »

Does anybody really care what someone thinks or says on a private forum

I think I see your point Gatling, but when the "private" forum has 4.000 memmbers it's an issue. Julius Striecher the Nazi propagandist (forgive the spelling) was hanged for less! I'm against the death penalty too but I think we have a massive problem wi

th racism in Ireland, fuelled mainly by ignorance and moronic stupidity. Remember what we did to single mothers...Magdelene punishment camps etc?? And our nationwide "industrial school" rape and torture centres??

This latest outburst of pure hatred shows that. I'm not big into PC but this GN stuff is vile in the extreme. Then again, bear in mind that it's a forum for hare coursing fans!

They are not the nicest of people at the best of times. Google "hare coursing" under "news" and see what comes up...

Femme_Fatale · 10-11-2013 02:09AM

RightofWay22 wrote: »

I think we have a massive problem with racism in Ireland, fuelled mainly by ignorance and moronic stupidity. Remember what we did to single mothers...Magdelene punishment camps etc?? And our nationwide "industrial school" rape and torture centres??

This latest outburst of pure hatred shows that.

Magdalene Laundries/industrial schools system discontinued long before I was born, there is no "we" or "our" about it.
And how do we have a massive problem with racism in Ireland? A few racist idiots (found in any country) does not mean that.
In the case of Roma too, it isn't just the colour of their skin, it's particular behaviours that are prevalent among a considerable number within Roma society.
I wouldn't hate any sound Roma person just because they are Roma - but there's no denying the broader issues.

Rabelais · 10-11-2013 02:28AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I wouldn't hate any sound Roma person just because they are Roma - but there's no denying the broader issues.

Absolutely. Instinctively discriminating against the Roma because of who they are is an appalling concept, and shows a genuine lack of humanism, probably based on reactionism. Ignoring some of the greater societal issues involved in multiculturalism shouldn't be ignored though. Most modern European liberals should spend less time being so self-congratulatory, and think about the fundamental principles involved in liberalism as a concept.

The Irish moved to America in huge numbers. They brought societal issues in a place that had little governance. Literally the 'Wild West'. Integration in Europe needs an honest debate without sensationalism. It's a more complex problem, but I truly believe there is an answer.

RightofWay22 · 10-11-2013 02:35AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Magdalene Laundries/industrial schools system discontinued long before I was born, there is no "we" or "our" about it.
And how do we have a massive problem with racism in Ireland? A few racist idiots (found in any country) does not mean that.
In the case of Roma too, it isn't just the colour of their skin, it's particular behaviours that are prevalent among a considerable number within Roma society.
I wouldn't hate any sound Roma person just because they are Roma - but there's no denying the broader issues.

There is an "our" and "we" about it, with respect. If not you, then your parents or grandparents. Re the Magdalene laundries...the last one closed in 1996. Are you not old enough to remember that year???

"Broader issue"...what's that? No nation or community is perfect, but racism is never a positive response. Re "particular behaviours"...that could apply any racial group, or for that matter, any householdl!!

If someone commits a crime, then the police take over. But you don't write off a whole race or nation or community. People of all races and nations do bad things. No race or nation or community is any worse than another. And likewise people of all the foregoing categories enhance life and do good.

I don't like hare coursing fans, but I wouldn't herd them into ghettos or gas them. After hare coursing is banned, I'd prosecute them, yes. but not incite hate against even these people who get their kicks from animal cruelty. The law should take its course. Racism is a disease, not a science, whatever the Fuhrer might have thought.

We don't need a proverbial "Night of the Broken Glass" in Ireland!

Femme_Fatale · 10-11-2013 02:46AM

RightofWay22 wrote: »

There is an "our" and "we" about it, with respect. If not you, then your parents or grandparents.

They didn't implement the system. The blame lies with those who did - it's easy to say in 2013 people should have done something, but people did try; they were up against too powerful a force though.

Re the Magdalene laundries...the last one closed in 1996. Are you not old enough to remember that year???

The state system of sending pregnant girls to them was discontinued in the early '70s though.

"Broader issue"...what's that?

There are disproportionate problems due to lack of education and other factors.

No nation or community is perfect, but racism is never a positive response.

I agree - I didn't say it was.

Re "particular behaviours"...that could apply any racial group, or for that matter, any householdl!!

Proportion though.

We don't need a proverbial "Night of the Broken Glass" in Ireland!

Of course we don't. I didn't say that. I don't agree with en masse hatred of Roma people, I know that lots of them are good people. But to deny there are serious problems disproportionately prevalent within their community is just wishful thinking. Education is what is needed, but it's difficult to implement this.

Ruu · 10-11-2013 03:00AM

If the site is under investigation, I would rather no linking or posts from it here. Thanks.

Mod.

RightofWay22 · 10-11-2013 03:03AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

They didn't implement the system. The blame lies with those who did - it's easy to say in 2013 people should have done something, but people did try; they were up against too powerful a force though.

The state system of sending pregnant girls to them was discontinued in the early '70s though.

There are disproportionate problems due to lack of education and other factors.

I agree - I didn't say it was.

Proportion though.

Of course we don't. I didn't say that. I don't agree with en masse hatred of Roma people, I know that lots of them are good people. But to deny there are serious problems disproportionately prevalent within their community is just wishful thinking. Education is what is needed, but it's difficult to implement this.

Pathetic response. But good to see you speedily backtracking.

Can you not bring yourself to utterly condemn and disown those overtly racist attacks on the Roma Community facilitated by the "Greyhound Nuts" site???

RightofWay22 · 10-11-2013 03:04AM

Ruubot2 wrote: »

If the site is under investigation, I would rather no linking or posts from it here. Thanks.

Mod.

Just seen this post. Noted, and apologies.

Femme_Fatale · 10-11-2013 03:04AM

RightofWay22 wrote: »

Pathetic response.

Can you elaborate as to how? You disagreeing with it doesn't count.

But good to see you speedily backtracking.

Didn't backtrack in the slightest.

RightofWay22 · 10-11-2013 03:15AM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Can you elaborate as to how? You disagreeing with it doesn't count.

Didn't backtrack in the slightest.

You still can't bring yourself to disown the comments on that particular site, or to explain why the Roma deserve your censure?? I mean...any more than any other ethnic group or nation or community...

General General · 10-11-2013 03:27AM

Femme Fatale sure seems to have issues taking on guilt complexes.

:pac:

Femme_Fatale · 10-11-2013 03:30AM

RightofWay22 wrote: »

You still can't bring yourself to disown the comments on that particular site

Oh no problem condemning hate comments advocating extermination of an entire group because of bad apples, even if a significant number.

or to explain why the Roma deserve your censure?? I mean...any more than any other ethnic group or nation or community...

They don't deserve my censure - didn't say they do.

Boombastic · 10-11-2013 10:35AM

Rabelais wrote: »

Absolutely. Instinctively discriminating against the Roma because of who they are is an appalling concept, and shows a genuine lack of humanism, probably based on reactionism. Ignoring some of the greater societal issues involved in multiculturalism shouldn't be ignored though. Most modern European liberals should spend less time being so self-congratulatory, and think about the fundamental principles involved in liberalism as a concept.

The Irish moved to America in huge numbers. They brought societal issues in a place that had little governance. Literally the 'Wild West'. Integration in Europe needs an honest debate without sensationalism. It's a more complex problem, but I truly believe there is an answer.

Ireland has governance, it's not the wild west. European liberals have a responsibility to accept migrants in to their communities and adjust their culture and traditions accordingly. What is the other side of that? what are the immigrants responsibilities?

Howard Juneau · 10-11-2013 10:39AM

RightofWay22 wrote: »

I think I see your point Gatling, but when the "private" forum has 4.000 memmbers it's an issue. Julius Striecher the Nazi propagandist (forgive the spelling) was hanged for less! I'm against the death penalty too but I think we have a massive problem wi

th racism in Ireland, fuelled mainly by ignorance and moronic stupidity. Remember what we did to single mothers...Magdelene punishment camps etc?? And our nationwide "industrial school" rape and torture centres??

This latest outburst of pure hatred shows that. I'm not big into PC but this GN stuff is vile in the extreme. Then again, bear in mind that it's a forum for hare coursing fans!

They are not the nicest of people at the best of times. Google "hare coursing" under "news" and see what comes up...

There may very well be hatred for the Roma here in Ireland, but on the whole, it's not Irish people who hate them.

Examiner: Gardaí investigate forum comments about Roma

Comments