Pussy riot girl - gone missing?

Muise... · 07-11-2013 01:28PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Bull****, in many civilized countries they could face severe charges, incitement to hatred (you can't burn a flag on facebook) as well as probably being added to the sex offenders list if there was a child in anyway close at all.
They probably wouldn't get as harsh a sentence and the conditions they would serve it in would be better but they wouldn't be branded heroes or given a slap on the wrist.

we probably only disagree on the measure of civilisation.

Potatoeman wrote: »

That was an example of different cultural values.

really? I thought it was an example of apples and oranges.

Femme_Fatale · 08-11-2013 01:35AM

cletus van damme wrote: »

He is one of the great leaders of this era.

And what do you make of all the oppression and intimidation and stuff?

ringadingding · 08-11-2013 02:05AM

I need more info on the chicken,
Fresh?
Frozen ?
Rotisserie ?
Basted ?

God damn it I want the details

feargale · 08-11-2013 03:59AM

LookingFor wrote: »

Putin and Orthodox Church Cement Power in Russia

The Russian Orthodox church has always cynically allied itself with those in power, not just Putin and the Tsars but the Communists too.

MonaPizza · 08-11-2013 04:51AM

Mince Pie wrote: »

Nadezhda Tolokonnikova was being transferred to a different prison and now gone missing.
Where is she? I really hope there isn't a tragic end to this story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10427025/Missing-Pussy-Riot-prisoner-Nadezhda-Tolokonnikova-being-taken-to-Siberia.html

She broke the law like those two twits who tried to smuggle drugs from Peru. We haven't heard much from them lately. Maybe they're "missing" and not allowed to use Twitter and are being transported to some isolated place that has no telly.

MonaPizza · 08-11-2013 04:56AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's stories like this that make you realise just how much freedom you have in a place like Ireland, despite stupid blasphemy laws and so on.

Really?

Because if you were Ed Snowden and landed in Shannon or Dublin you would have been carted straight back to Washington to face a rope or the charming fate of Bradley Manning courtesy of our "neutral" leaders. But if you landed in Moscow you would have been given safe haven.

MonaPizza · 08-11-2013 05:00AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

hardly deserving of the punishment though!

Then protest the American 80 year old nun who was banged up (as a terrorist) for demonstrating at a nuclear facility:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/04/nun-protesting-nuclear-weapons-denied-appeal

moxin · 08-11-2013 07:43AM

MonaPizza wrote: »

Because if you were Ed Snowden and landed in Shannon or Dublin you would have been carted straight back to Washington to face a rope or the charming fate of Bradley Manning courtesy of our "neutral" leaders. But if you landed in Moscow you would have been given safe haven.

Thats only because Russia is a rival of USA, nothing to do with freedom but rivalries. If Snowden landed in any other non powerful country that is not a rival of USA, he would have been promptly shipped back to Washington.

At least we can criticise Russia here, you don't get that privilege in Russia.

cnocbui · 08-11-2013 02:04PM

cletus van damme wrote: »

Rising from a KGB agent to head of the country in such a short time only ads to his greatness.
He is one of the great leaders of this era.

He's a thug in a suit. There is nothing great about him except the size of his ego.

languagenerd · 08-11-2013 02:20PM

A lot of people here don't seem to know what she was imprisoned for. They didn't interrupt a religious service, or "take a shyte on the altar", or anything else like that. Whatever about chickens or orgies (I don't know anything about those, tbh) - that's not what she was imprisoned for. Pussy Riot sang a protest song in a near-empty cathedral. That's it. That's what they got two years in prison for. That's what they were harshly punished for (I've read various reports saying they were kept in solitary confinement, fed very little, not given clean clothes, etc.). All for singing a song in a church.

I'm sorry, but no, you would not get the same punishment here. If I went into Christchurch or the Pro-Cathedral or any Irish church tomorrow when there were no ceremonies on, and sang a protest song, nothing would happen. People would think I was an eejit, yes, and the priests or the handful of people in saying their prayers might get annoyed and ask me to leave, but I highly doubt I'd be arrested for it, unless I got aggressive or refused to leave. And even then, I don't think I'd get a prison sentence.

They sang an anti-Putin song. Even if they knew it was against Russian law, how can any right-minded person say they deserve this level of punishment?

Potatoeman · 08-11-2013 03:51PM

languagenerd wrote: »

A lot of people here don't seem to know what she was imprisoned for. They didn't interrupt a religious service, or "take a shyte on the altar", or anything else like that. Whatever about chickens or orgies (I don't know anything about those, tbh) - that's not what she was imprisoned for. Pussy Riot sang a protest song in a near-empty cathedral. That's it. That's what they got two years in prison for. That's what they were harshly punished for (I've read various reports saying they were kept in solitary confinement, fed very little, not given clean clothes, etc.). All for singing a song in a church.

I'm sorry, but no, you would not get the same punishment here. If I went into Christchurch or the Pro-Cathedral or any Irish church tomorrow when there were no ceremonies on, and sang a protest song, nothing would happen. People would think I was an eejit, yes, and the priests or the handful of people in saying their prayers might get annoyed and ask me to leave, but I highly doubt I'd be arrested for it, unless I got aggressive or refused to leave. And even then, I don't think I'd get a prison sentence.

They sang an anti-Putin song. Even if they knew it was against Russian law, how can any right-minded person say they deserve this level of punishment?

What would happen if you done that in a Mosque? It would not be tolerated as its culturally unacceptable.

They broke Russian law in a very public way and are facing the consequences. It's a show of strenght giving them a harsh sentence after flaunting the law.

Billy86 · 08-11-2013 04:11PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

What would happen if you done that in a Mosque? It would not be tolerated as its culturally unacceptable.

In Ireland? Again very little. Angry Muslims if there were any in there, asked to leave, if you got aggressive the most that would happen would be the Gards being called to 'escort you out' which might result in a fine and/or up to a whole few hours of being held as a 'stop being such a bollix' measure.

Potatoeman · 08-11-2013 04:23PM

Billy86 wrote: »

In Ireland? Again very little. Angry Muslims if there were any in there, asked to leave, if you got aggressive the most that would happen would be the Gards being called to 'escort you out' which might result in a fine and/or up to a whole few hours of being held as a 'stop being such a bollix' measure.

I think you are underestimating how unacceptable and offensive this would be to many Muslims.

nelly17 · 08-11-2013 04:25PM

This is a bit Off Topic but I would recomend watching the documentaries the BBC done on Putin, as it gave a pretty good insight to the guy - hes a complete nut-job

Putin, Russia and the West (over 4 episodes)

Billy86 · 08-11-2013 04:27PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think you are underestimating how unacceptable and offensive this would be to many Muslims.

The mosque would have to be nearly empty first of all, for your analogy to work. Also, why do you assume that Muslims are so much more aggressive and would be so much more volatile in their response, compared to Christians?

sbsquarepants · 08-11-2013 04:42PM

Billy86 wrote: »

. Also, why do you assume that Muslims are so much more aggressive and would be so much more volatile in their response, compared to Christians?

It's a mystery alright.:D

fedor.2. · 08-11-2013 04:54PM

Billy86 wrote: »

The mosque would have to be nearly empty first of all, for your analogy to work. Also, why do you assume that Muslims are so much more aggressive and would be so much more volatile in their response, compared to Christians?

Silly Billy

Billy86 · 08-11-2013 04:57PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

Silly Billy

With such obviously well informed and unprejudiced insights, all I can say is your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Potatoeman · 08-11-2013 05:00PM

Billy86 wrote: »

The mosque would have to be nearly empty first of all, for your analogy to work. Also, why do you assume that Muslims are so much more aggressive and would be so much more volatile in their response, compared to Christians?

Go and do it and see what happens. It's culturally more acceptable to be disrespectful of religion in the west. Cultural differences.
Most people can be incited to violence if you find something they care enough about and undetmine or threaten it.

Muise... · 08-11-2013 05:03PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

Go and do it and see what happens. It's culturally more acceptable to be disrespectful of religion in the west. Cultural differences.
Most people can be incited to violence if you find something they care enough about and undetmine or threaten it.

you've lost me, Potatoeman. Are you arguing that Russia was right to punish Pussy Riot harshly because a Muslim country would have done it that way too?

Billy86 · 08-11-2013 05:11PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

Go and do it and see what happens. It's culturally more acceptable to be disrespectful of religion in the west. Cultural differences.
Most people can be incited to violence if you find something they care enough about and undetmine or threaten it.

Again... what evidence do you have of this, or is it just your own notion in your head? You do realise that there are Western Muslims also, right? We're not talking about a Mosque in the Middle East, we are talking about a Mosque in Ireland.

Just look at the doctor from Beaumont hospital whose family in England was burned to death a few weeks ago... just for being Muslim, by the EDL. Remember when he went spewing anger and hatred, looking to incite violence as did the whole Muslim community around him over this? Oh wait, he didn't, and they didn't - asked about why he did not appear angry over it he actually said "we're not supposed to be" in relation to his faith. But the EDL (comprised of Christians it is safe to assume) had done so already... surely we should tar Christians for this then under the same brush? Because some people really seem more than happy to do that with Muslims.

Potatoeman · 08-11-2013 05:17PM

Muise... wrote: »

you've lost me, Potatoeman. Are you arguing that Russia was right to punish Pussy Riot harshly because a Muslim country would have done it that way too?

We went off the point but what I was trying to get accross is that certain things are far more unacceptable in othet countries. What they did was going to land them in jail and get a harsh sentence. If Putin did not do this it would be perceived as weak. I would be interested to see a Russian poll on this.

Potatoeman · 08-11-2013 05:22PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Again... what evidence do you have of this, or is it just your own notion in your head? You do realise that there are Western Muslims also, right? We're not talking about a Mosque in the Middle East, we are talking about a Mosque in Ireland.

Just look at the doctor from Beaumont hospital whose family in England was burned to death a few weeks ago... just for being Muslim, by the EDL. Remember when he went spewing anger and hatred, looking to incite violence as did the whole Muslim community around him over this? Oh wait, he didn't, and they didn't - asked about why he did not appear angry over it he actually said "we're not supposed to be" in relation to his faith. But the EDL (comprised of Christians it is safe to assume) had done so already... surely we should tar Christians for this then under the same brush? Because some people really seem more than happy to do that with Muslims.

Well I wouldnt wear a celtic jersey into a protestant church in the north either. As I said there are certain things that more offensive to certain people.

Billy86 · 08-11-2013 05:38PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

Well I wouldnt wear a celtic jersey into a protestant church in the north either. As I said there are certain things that more offensive to certain people.

...how many Muslims do you know?

Are Muslim/Christian relations in Ireland similar to Protestant/Catholic relations in the North?

And was your point not that you'd face a much more volatile reaction singing a song in a near empty mosque in Ireland than you would a near empty Church in Ireland? You did say "What would happen if you done that in a Mosque? It would not be tolerated as its culturally unacceptable" and when I asked if you meant in Ireland as opposed to the say Middle East, you did reply "I think you are underestimating how unacceptable and offensive this would be to many Muslims"

So can you just set the actual goalposts down first for a moment, and we'll take it from there. I'm not even sure what your point is anymore, to be honest.

Potatoeman · 08-11-2013 05:48PM

Billy86 wrote: »

...how many Muslims do you know?

Are Muslim/Christian relations in Ireland similar to Protestant/Catholic relations in the North?

And was your point not that you'd face a much more volatile reaction singing a song in a near empty mosque in Ireland than you would a near empty Church in Ireland? You did say "What would happen if you done that in a Mosque? It would not be tolerated as its culturally unacceptable" and when I asked if you meant in Ireland as opposed to the say Middle East, you did reply "I think you are underestimating how unacceptable and offensive this would be to many Muslims"

So can you just set the actual goalposts down first for a moment, and we'll take it from there. I'm not even sure what your point is anymore, to be honest.

I was refering to cultural differences. This has is all already derailed this thread. Lets get back on topic.

Billy86 · 08-11-2013 06:31PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

I was refering to cultural differences. This has is all already derailed this thread. Lets get back on topic.

Well, you brought up the mosque analogy. All I was asking was if you were referring to an Irish mosque (as the post you had mentioned it in response to was covering our freedoms vs. those in Russia and what the women in question were arrested for).

So long as you are willing to admit that was a silly comment, then we're good.

Pussy riot girl - gone missing?

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