Teen Seeking Help After Car Accident Rang Doorbell, Was Shot In The Head

SV · 07-11-2013 09:42PM

Inb4 manicmoran although it seems madsl has taken over for him..

My name is URL · 07-11-2013 09:43PM

MadsL wrote: »

He's a marksman too as well as disoriented and scared homeowner.

I'm not justifying this at all

Really..? coz that's exactly what it sounds like you're doing, in this and in every single other thread which involves a gun being used in the US.

MadsL · 07-11-2013 09:43PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

1. Didn't know that, I still don't hear of people getting shot on doorsteps. (Apart from in gangland of course, but every country has their own version of that)

I linked to that earlier, but guess what -no AH thread, I guess gangland shootings aren't 'real' shootings.

2. Nope, didn't know that either, but it's hardly relevant in this case since the girl was shot on the man's property?

Has some bearing on preconceptions of the gun laws in the US, which in Illinois are nearly as strict as Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois

Seaneh · 07-11-2013 09:46PM

MadsL wrote: »

And Detroit, Illinois remains the only state in the US with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public.

Detroit is in Michigan.

So what the **** do irrelevant Illinois gun laws have to do with this thread about a girl being shot in the ****ing head after knocking on a strangers door while seeking help after crashing her car?

MadsL · 07-11-2013 09:47PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Really..? coz that's exactly what it sounds like you're doing, in this and in every single other thread which involves a gun being used in the US.

Nope. Way to put words in my mouth. In every single gun thread on boards I have argued for the personal responsibility of the gun owner and for them to face the full legal consequences of their actions.

That is different to the kneejerk 'Merika nonsense posted on every single damn shooting thread regardless of even reading the circumstances nor the laws in the state where the shooting took place.

Like I said, could you stop and actually think for a minute.

Seaneh · 07-11-2013 09:48PM

MadsL wrote: »

Illinois are nearly as strict as Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois

No, no they are not.

Not even ****ing close.

In Illonois you can:
Buy a hand guy, without registration.

In Ireland it's near impossible to get a handgun licence.

wexie · 07-11-2013 09:49PM

P_1 wrote: »

Right I do understand that things are meant to be a bit on the Mad Max side of things in Detroit but surely people aren't so frightened of things that they answer a knock of the door in the middle of the night with a loaded shotgun.

hmmm.....I don't actually own a gun, but I'll tell ya if I did; and I was woken up in the middle of the night by someone banging on my frontdoor; then the gun wouldn't be far away when I went downstairs to open the door.

and just to point out, depending on what article you read there is actually no confirmation of her actually having been shot in the BACK of the head.

Relatives of the victim have told local media that Renisha was shot in the
back of the head as she turned to leave the porch. Authorities have confirmed that she was shot in the head, though the suggestion that she was hit from behind is unconfirmed.

Femme_Fatale · 07-11-2013 09:49PM

Xenji wrote: »

George Zimmerman has set a precedent, plus they will go with the whole self defense angle regardless of what actually happened.

Well, none of that is a guarantee.
Zimmerman had more cause for self defence than this person also.

Hate America-bashing and that "Murica" thing myself, but it's disingenuous to say easy access to guns in that country isn't a problem that leads to incidents like this.

Amirani · 07-11-2013 09:53PM

MadsL wrote: »

And Detroit, Illinois remains the only state in the US with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public.

What?

MadsL · 07-11-2013 09:54PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Detroit is in Michigan.

Sorry apologies. I'm on pain meds at the moment.

Detroit still has some of the strictest gun laws in the US.

And the second highest murder rate in the US.

So what the **** do irrelevant Illinois gun laws have to do with this thread about a girl being shot in the ****ing head after knocking on a strangers door while seeking help after crashing her car?

What do Ireland's gun laws have to do with scobies shooting each other up? What do the UK's gun laws have to do with a kid shooting another kid?
What do Australia's gun laws have to with a girl who was shot in Sydney?

But your intelligent analysis = 'Merika. Well done.

P_1 · 07-11-2013 09:55PM

wexie wrote: »

hmmm.....I don't actually own a gun, but I'll tell ya if I did; and I was woken up in the middle of the night by someone banging on my frontdoor; then the gun wouldn't be far away when I went downstairs to open the door.

and just to point out, depending on what article you read there is actually no confirmation of her actually having been shot in the BACK of the head.

You can look out of most doors to see what is going on the other side though. Initial reading on it suggests that the homeowner decided to shoot first and ask questions later

Billy86 · 07-11-2013 09:55PM

If she had any cop on she would have had a gun herself to shoot him in the head back with. Would've saved her life. Yes, I'm being sarcastic obviously.

MadsL · 07-11-2013 09:56PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Do you have some sort of alarm that goes off every time someone posts a gun thread on AH?

Odd how those gun threads are never about shooting incidents in Ireland. AH is careful to be quiet about those.

wexie · 07-11-2013 09:56PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Well, none of that is a guarantee.
Zimmerman had more cause for self defence than this person also.

Hate America-bashing and that "Murica" thing myself, but it's disingenuous to say easy access to guns in that country isn't a problem that leads to incidents like this.

We don't really know yet do we? When the whole Zimmerman thing first broke all the articles seemed to indicate that Trayvon Martin was a little angel, top student yada yada yada.

Problem with cases like this is that the early news is very heavily influenced by the family of the victim as the police aint talking yet, they're investigating and they've learn the hard way that releasing information before they're sure of it can go badly wrong.

The 'real story' doesn't tend to get out until later on in the process.

Agree with you on the gun issue though, mostly.

metaoblivia · 07-11-2013 09:57PM

I found this recent article from the Detroit Free Press which seems to call into question some of the stated facts so far:

http://www.freep.com/article/20131107/NEWS05/311070119/Renisha-McBride-shot-in-face-not-back-of-head-Dearborn-Heights

The chief detective said she wasn't shot in the back of the head, but in the face, the gun owner is claiming it was an accidental discharge, and they said several hours went by between the accident and the shooting, and they don't know what was going on during that time.

SparkySpitfire · 07-11-2013 09:58PM

MadsL wrote: »

Almost everything about that sentence is factually incorrect.
There are 220,000 firearms in Ireland.
And Detroit, Illinois remains the only state in the US with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public.

So, of course all four new stories totally reflect each countries attitude to gun control. Could you all just try thinking for a minute?

Haha who's factually incorrect now? :P

C'mon man, if people weren't so rash in their use of lethal weapons then a lot of deaths like these could've been avoided. It just happens to be frequently reported that these things happen in America. No one's saying it doesn't happen elsewhere.

Taking a (small :P ) step back:

Regardless of gun laws, if someone knocks on your door late at night unexpectedly, you're gonna want to take precautions. This man happened to have a gun as his.

I'm interested now to hear more about what went on between her knocking on his door, and him shooting her dead.

But it seems as though this death could have been avoided because of a rash decision.

wexie · 07-11-2013 09:58PM

P_1 wrote: »

You can look out of most doors to see what is going on the other side though. Initial reading on it suggests that the homeowner decided to shoot first and ask questions later

This definitely sounds like there may be something fishy here.
Just saying that I don't think it'd be too unreasonable to get a bit over excited if there is someone banging on your door in the middle of the night.

Especially in a city with crime rates like Detroit.

Seaneh · 07-11-2013 09:59PM

MadsL wrote: »

Sorry apologies. I'm on pain meds at the moment.

Detroit still has some of the strictest gun laws in the US.

And the second highest murder rate in the US.

What do Ireland's gun laws have to do with scobies shooting each other up? What do the UK's gun laws have to do with a kid shooting another kid?
What do Australia's gun laws have to with a girl who was shot in Sydney?

But your intelligent analysis = 'Merika. Well done.

And how many people per 1000 are killed by firearms in Ireland/Australia per year?
How many people per 1000 are unlawfully killed in ireland/Australia, period, per year?

Now compare both figures to the US.

Now, in what percentage of Irish/Australian unlawful killings are a firearm used?

What percentage of unlawful killings in the US are a firearm used?

Because once you compare these numbers your retarded straw-man argument falls to ****e.

The Big Smoke · 07-11-2013 10:00PM

MadsL wrote: »

What can I say, I'm very sensitive to kneejerk idiotic reactions.

You must hate yourself then...

Amirani · 07-11-2013 10:00PM

MadsL wrote: »

Odd how those gun threads are never about shooting incidents in Ireland. AH is careful to be quiet about those.

There's obviously a big difference between fatal and non-fatal shootings in terms of their exposure and people's reactions.

There's a hell of a lot more fatal shootings in the US, particularly amongst those not involved in drug gangs. It might seem like the US is being picked on, but it's not, and there's no conspiracy here.

The number of gun murders in the US that get mentioned on Boards is far less than 1%. I'd say far more than 1% of gun murders in Ireland get mentioned.

Timmyctc · 07-11-2013 10:00PM

metaoblivia wrote: »

I found this recent article from the Detroit Free Press which seems to call into question some of the stated facts so far:

http://www.freep.com/article/20131107/NEWS05/311070119/Renisha-McBride-shot-in-face-not-back-of-head-Dearborn-Heights

The chief detective said she wasn't shot in the back of the head, but in the face, the gun owner is claiming it was an accidental discharge, and they said several hours went by between the accident and the shooting, and they don't know what was going on during that time.

My name is URL · 07-11-2013 10:04PM

MadsL wrote: »

Nope. Way to put words in my mouth. In every single gun thread on boards I have argued for the personal responsibility of the gun owner and for them to face the full legal consequences of their actions.

That is different to the kneejerk 'Merika nonsense posted on every single damn shooting thread regardless of even reading the circumstances nor the laws in the state where the shooting took place.

Like I said, could you stop and actually think for a minute.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth. You tried to attribute fear and disorientation to the reason the guy may have fired a shot. And also mentioned that he a marksman, as if that somehow makes it seem like it's a more reasonable reaction.

For all your talk of people jumping to conclusions and knee-jerk reactions, you're not exactly innocent of that yourself.

wexie · 07-11-2013 10:04PM

wexie wrote: »

We don't really know yet do we? When the whole Zimmerman thing first broke all the articles seemed to indicate that Trayvon Martin was a little angel, top student yada yada yada.

Problem with cases like this is that the early news is very heavily influenced by the family of the victim as the police aint talking yet, they're investigating and they've learn the hard way that releasing information before they're sure of it can go badly wrong.

The 'real story' doesn't tend to get out until later on in the process.

Agree with you on the gun issue though, mostly.

see, we're what an hour into the thread? and the facts are changing already

Serwatowski said the shooting occurred about 3:40 a.m. and the accident happened at about 1:30 a.m. He declined to say what police believe McBride was doing before and after the accident.

This girl was not shot in the back of the head while leaving the porch,”
Serwatowski said “I don’t know where the family is getting this. She was shot in the front of the face, near the mouth

MadsL · 07-11-2013 10:04PM

Seaneh wrote: »

No, no they are not.

Not even ****ing close.

In Illonois you can:
Buy a hand guy, without registration.

Did you misread this? You need a permit to buy a firearm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOID_(firearms)

Michigan is almost as strict...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Michigan

In Ireland it's near impossible to get a handgun licence.

There are licensed handgun owners in Ireland and rimfire pistols are currently being licensed.

Seaneh · 07-11-2013 10:06PM

MadsL wrote: »

Did you misread this? You need a permit to buy a firearm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOID_(firearms)

Michigan is almost as strict...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Michigan

There are licensed handgun owners in Ireland and rimfire pistols are currently being licensed.

No you need an ID card, which almost anyone can acquire.

And you don't have to register any handguns you buy, you just have to show your ID.

Seaneh · 07-11-2013 10:06PM

MadsL wrote: »

Did you misread this? You need a permit to buy a firearm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOID_(firearms)

Michigan is almost as strict...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Michigan

There are licensed handgun owners in Ireland and rimfire pistols are currently being licensed.

Hence why I said NEARLY impossible.

Billy86 · 07-11-2013 10:07PM

MadsL wrote: »

Detroit still has some of the strictest gun laws in the US.

And the second highest murder rate in the US.

Are you sure about that? This has Detroit in 4th last year (and 6th in 2011) - http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state - behind Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama. Now I wonder what the laws on gun ownership are in those three deep red states?

Rounding out the top 10 are South Carolina, Missouri, Maryland, Delaware, Tennessee and Arkansas. Making an assumption here, but Maryland and possibly Delaware are the only ones there that I could see with gun control laws.

P_1 · 07-11-2013 10:08PM

wexie wrote: »

This definitely sounds like there may be something fishy here.
Just saying that I don't think it'd be too unreasonable to get a bit over excited if there is someone banging on your door in the middle of the night.

Especially in a city with crime rates like Detroit.

True I guess you would want to have some protection with you answering the door in the middle of the night, especially in somewhere with such high crime rates as Detroit. I'd like to hope that some sort of malfunction with the gun, rather than somebody deciding to shoot first and ask questions later was to blame for this though.

MadsL · 07-11-2013 10:10PM

Seaneh wrote: »

And how many people per 1000 are killed by firearms in Ireland/Australia per year?
How many people per 1000 are unlawfully killed in ireland/Australia, period, per year?

Now compare both figures to the US.

Now, in what percentage of Irish/Australian unlawful killings are a firearm used?

What percentage of unlawful killings in the US are a firearm used?

Because once you compare these numbers your retarded straw-man argument falls to ****e.

Oh you now actually want to move your thought processes and analysis beyond some tired 'Merica meme that was funny in 2009.

Slow clap. Shame you didn't start there.

Seaneh · 07-11-2013 10:11PM

MadsL wrote: »

Oh you now actually want to move your thought processes and analysis beyond some tired 'Merica meme that was funny in 2009.

Slow clap. Shame you didn't start there.

No, 'Murika still applies, because it's fu*king apt.

Teen Seeking Help After Car Accident Rang Doorbell, Was Shot In The Head

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