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Numbers up Gerry

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  • #782
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,423 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    delthedriver wrote: »

    The main points have been missed by the SF/IRA propaganda OPs on the thread.

    Mrs. McConville a widow , mother of 10 children

    :)

    I don't think anyone has denied she was a female, or a mother. Why do you keep mentioning that? Emotive claptrap bordering on sexism is all it is. And you talk about the SF propaganda machine!


  • #783
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    2
    a : a meeting at which information is obtained (as by a reporter, television commentator, or pollster) from a person

    When you continually make unsubstantiated accusations as part of your 'interview' then I see it as more of an interrogation. But you can call it whatever you like, no biggie.
    Can you deal with the substantive issue in my post now?


  • #784
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    When you continually make unsubstantiated accusations as part of your 'interview' then I see it as more of an interrogation. But you can call it whatever you like, no biggie.
    Can you deal with the substantive issue in my post now?

    Because you would never do that right :rolleyes:


  • #785
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    No
    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    With a sponsored operation by the brit army blows the life out of people in the name of the crown, would you not think it would be like they disappeared, their families would think that. Remember the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, and the victims families. Sponsored HRH and supported by a corrupt coalition government in Ireland.

    But all the families of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings at least got to have a funeral, and they have a grave to visit or, ashes on a mantelpiece and they knew for sure what happened their loved one.
    This programme was about people "disappeared" by the IRA,that is,abducted and murdered and their bodies hidden. This was an added pain. The program explored their families search for them, and pain and the loneliness of not knowing and not being sure and having no grave to visit. The McConvilles featured large in the programme because their case was particularly heart-rendering in that 10 small children were left orphans and they were looking for their mothers body for 30 years.
    I dont think there was any agenda. It is a human interest story. If Gerry Adams came out of it looking a shady character, well he shouldnt have agreed to participate.


  • #786
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    oceanman wrote: »
    but the vast majority of people don't give a hoot whether adams was in the IRA or not, and its not going to affect his political career one jot! now if only RTE could grasp that...

    I disagree - if it ever emerges that Adams was in the IRA and that he was involved in the murder of Jean McConville then this will be very damaging to him, Sinn Fein and republicanism in general.

    Sinn Fein are already getting hot under the collar at the mere mention of the allegation - Adams gets riled every time it's brought up. Imagine how it would be were it ever shown to be fact?


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  • #787
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    This is exactly my problem with it. This is what the programme was about. Adams and McConville. Why else would they focus so much on the case of wether she was or wasnt an informer? How does that help locate those still missing?
    You have proven my point, the programme actually had very little to do with the disappeared.

    Have you actually seen the programme? :confused:

    There was hardly any focus on her being an informer. There wasn't that much on Adams - he was on it for about 5 minutes out of 90. The McConville disappearance got a good chunk of airtime given that it was the most high profile of them all. This will always be the case, even if it's politically inconvenient for SF and Adams. Just because of the allegations of Adams involvement shouldn't mean this case is ignored.

    The vast, vast majority of it was about The Disappeared.

    People are taking a show that highlighted the suffering caused by the IRA and trying to spin it to paint Adams as some sort of poor, persecuted soul.


  • #788
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    awec wrote: »
    I disagree - if it ever emerges that Adams was in the IRA and that he was involved in the murder of Jean McConville then this will be very damaging to him, Sinn Fein and republicanism in general.

    Sinn Fein are already getting hot under the collar at the mere mention of the allegation - Adams gets riled every time it's brought up. Imagine how it would be were it ever shown to be fact?

    as a neutra - i would say he gets riled because it the same oul claptrap that is wheeled out every time SF seem be doing good in the polls.


  • #789
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Because you would never do that right :rolleyes:

    I try not to, if you can find one I have made, please point it out and I will deal with it.

    Can you now deal with the substantiated claim I made in the post? About the actual stated intention of Darragh McIntyre and what others claim the intention of the programme was?

    'I want to know why they where killed and their bodies hidden from their families and who was responsible, but most of all I want to put these questions to the Republican movement and it's leader Gerry Adams, seen here in 1970 as a young IRA volunteer (footage of GA at a funeral) and for the last 30 years the President of SF.'


  • #790
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    fishy fishy wrote: »
    as a neutra - i would say he gets riled because it the same oul claptrap that is wheeled out every time SF seem be doing good in the polls.

    There's that old persecution complex again. "They're bringing up the horrendous murder and disappearance of these people at the hands of our military wing because we're polling well. Please feel sorry for us."

    Pull the other one.


  • #791
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I try not to, if you can find one I have made, please point it out and I will deal with it.

    Can you now deal with the substantiated claim I made in the post? About the actual stated intention of Darragh McIntyre and what others claim the intention of the programme was?

    'I want to know why they where killed and their bodies hidden from their families and who was responsible, but most of all I want to put these questions to the Republican movement and it's leader Gerry Adams, seen here in 1970 as a young IRA volunteer (footage of GA at a funeral) and for the last 30 years the President of SF.'

    Because if anyone would be able to answer those questions it would be the person who was in charge at the time?

    If i wanted to question AIB bank about the collapse would i ask a stranger on the street or would i interview the man who was sin charge?


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  • #792
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I try not to, if you can find one I have made, please point it out and I will deal with it.

    Can you now deal with the substantiated claim I made in the post? About the actual stated intention of Darragh McIntyre and what others claim the intention of the programme was?

    'I want to know why they where killed and their bodies hidden from their families and who was responsible, but most of all I want to put these questions to the Republican movement and it's leader Gerry Adams, seen here in 1970 as a young IRA volunteer (footage of GA at a funeral) and for the last 30 years the President of SF.'

    You do realise that statement by McIntyre does not contradict anything said on this thread, right? :confused:

    It is very baffling how you see this statement as somehow indicative of an "interrogation". That is quite the act of mental gymnastics.

    It was a human interest story. Just because you'd like everyone to forget about it because poor wee Gerry is caught up in it does not mean it should be. It won't be the last time it is brought up - there are still bodies out there not returned to their loved ones. Questions will continue to be raised so long as that is the case - if SF find that politically inconvenient then they are just going to have to get over it.


  • #793
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    awec wrote: »
    There's that old persecution complex again. "They're bringing up the horrendous murder and disappearance of these people at the hands of our military wing because we're polling well. Please feel sorry for us."

    Pull the other one.

    true tho - remember when mcguinness was in the running for president and he was being attacked by rte and co. made his popularity soar - people can see through the rte tripe.

    and of course the rte moment of the year......when the F Failer was shamed live on air - best five minutes of TV. Ya gotta love the shinners. :D


  • #794
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    I disagree - if it ever emerges that Adams was in the IRA and that he was involved in the murder of Jean McConville then this will be very damaging to him, Sinn Fein and republicanism in general.

    Sinn Fein are already getting hot under the collar at the mere mention of the allegation - Adams gets riled every time it's brought up. Imagine how it would be were it ever shown to be fact?

    They get "riled up" when it's mentioned because there are very serious challenges facing this country but whenever Sinn Fein try to address them it always comes back to this guff.
    It's Enda's favourite way of dodging questions asked by SF.
    It's RTE's go-to story when SF go up in the polls.
    It's the default response here when SF raise a pertinent issue.

    There's a lot of work to be done, SF are keen to do it but every time they try this crap comes up.


  • #795
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Because if anyone would be able to answer those questions it would be the person who was in charge at the time?

    If i wanted to question AIB bank about the collapse would i ask a stranger on the street or would i interview the man who was sin charge?

    So the programme was about 'why' the families where bereaved and 'who' was responsible, not 'about' the bereaved and 'finding' the remaining disappeared'.

    Thank you, I'm glad that at least somebody on this thread sees that. It is important.


  • #796
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    They get "riled up" when it's mentioned because there are very serious challenges facing this country but whenever Sinn Fein try to address them it always comes back to this guff.
    It's Enda's favourite way of dodging questions asked by SF.
    It's RTE's go-to story when SF go up in the polls.
    It's the default response here when SF raise a pertinent issue.

    There's a lot of work to be done, SF are keen to do it but every time they try this crap comes up.

    sure Edna won't even have a debate on air - too busy eating.


  • #797
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    fishy fishy wrote: »
    true tho - remember when mcguinness was in the running for president and he was being attacked by rte and co. made his popularity soar - people can see through the rte tripe.

    and of course the rte moment of the year......when the F Failer was shamed live on air - best five minutes of TV. Ya gotta love the shinners. :D

    Do you really expect the past of these people not to be raised and questioned when running for an office like President?

    What planet do you live on?


  • #798
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    They get "riled up" when it's mentioned because there are very serious challenges facing this country but whenever Sinn Fein try to address them it always comes back to this guff.
    It's Enda's favourite way of dodging questions asked by SF.
    It's RTE's go-to story when SF go up in the polls.
    It's the default response here when SF raise a pertinent issue.

    There's a lot of work to be done, SF are keen to do it but every time they try this crap comes up.

    What a load of waffle.

    So now nobody should mention these incidents because "there are serious challenges facing this country".

    Is that what we've lowered ourselves to now?


  • #799
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    awec wrote: »
    Do you really expect the past of these people not to be raised and questioned when running for an office like President?

    What planet do you live on?

    planet earth - the real world - if you watched the debated you would know that it wasn't questions that were asked - it was MMG being attacked without right of reply usually. Very entertaining as he is a highly intelligent man who took it in his stride.

    Still, it highlighted the bias RTE shows - people are wise to it - time to move on, and stop harping on and on and on, every time this political party shows signs of upward movement in the polls. :D


  • #800
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So the programme was about 'why' the families where bereaved and 'who' was responsible, not 'about' the bereaved and 'finding' the remaining disappeared'.

    Thank you, I'm glad that at least somebody on this thread sees that. It is important.

    Erm...No...but keep twisting words....you're actually quite good at it....You're not a sinn fein politician by any chance?


  • #801
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Erm...No...but keep twisting words....you're actually quite good at it....You're not a sinn fein politician by any chance?

    Let me ask you, how many Loyalists where questioned/interviewed/interrogated about people STILL missing in the programme?
    Any problems with that?


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  • #802
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    Have you actually seen the programme? :confused:

    There was hardly any focus on her being an informer. There wasn't that much on Adams - he was on it for about 5 minutes out of 90. The McConville disappearance got a good chunk of airtime given that it was the most high profile of them all. This will always be the case, even if it's politically inconvenient for SF and Adams. Just because of the allegations of Adams involvement shouldn't mean this case is ignored.

    The vast, vast majority of it was about The Disappeared.

    People are taking a show that highlighted the suffering caused by the IRA and trying to spin it to paint Adams as some sort of poor, persecuted soul.

    Did you see it. The actual interview with Adams may have only last a few minutes but huge swathes of the programme were about Adams, about his responses, about his past.
    It focused massively on McConville and her family despite the fact that she has been found.
    It produced four interviews on wether or not she was an informer.
    None of this advances the cause of the disappeared on iota. In several interviews before and after it was aired family members of the disappeared said the point of the programme was to encourage people to come forward with information on those still missing.
    RTE and BBC failed miserably in this regard. They produced a programme on Adams and Jean McConville evident by the fact that that's precisely what the vast amount of discussion on this thread has been about. Not the disappeared.


  • #803
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    awec wrote: »
    What a load of waffle.

    So now nobody should mention these incidents because "there are serious challenges facing this country".

    Is that what we've lowered ourselves to now?

    No, but nobody should use them as a distraction from the challenges we face.


  • #804
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Did you see it. The actual interview with Adams may have only last a few minutes but huge swathes of the programme were about Adams, about his responses, about his past.
    It focused massively on McConville and her family despite the fact that she has been found.
    It produced four interviews on wether or not she was an informer.
    None of this advances the cause of the disappeared on iota. In several interviews before and after it was aired family members of the disappeared said the point of the programme was to encourage people to come forward with information on those still missing.
    RTE and BBC failed miserably in this regard. They produced a programme on Adams and Jean McConville evident by the fact that that's precisely what the vast amount of discussion on this thread has been about. Not the disappeared.
    Even though she was found she was still a member of the Disappeared. The programme was to highlight what her family suffered for 31 years.

    Unfortunately for SF, just because she has been found does not mean everyone is going to magically forget what happened.

    Perhaps SF and their voters don't like the programme because it once again highlighted some of the IRAs dirty deeds in the past that they would prefer people forgot?

    If you really think the programme was going to produce any new evidence then I don't think you have a grasp on what the purpose was.


  • #805
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    No, but nobody should use them as a distraction from the challenges we face.

    They're not being used as a distraction. They are some of the most brutal and unsavoury incidents to happen during the troubles. There are still bodies not returned to loved ones.

    Of course the story is going to be of interest to people. That programme is not distracting from any of these "serious issues".


  • #806
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Let me ask you, how many Loyalists where questioned/interviewed/interrogated about people STILL missing in the programme?
    Any problems with that?

    What did the loyalists have to do with the people who disappeared at the hands of the IRA? Are you saying you think the loyalist paramilitaries helped the IRA disappear people, good mates that they were?

    What even is the point in this post? Do you understand what this thread is about?


  • #807
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    They're not being used as a distraction. They are some of the most brutal and unsavoury incidents to happen during the troubles. There are still bodies not returned to loved ones.

    Of course the story is going to be of interest to people. That programme is not distracting from any of these "serious issues".


    So why was the focus of the programme not this woman's family? Recent (with a chance that people will have vivid memories of where she is buried) and high profile.
    Your claims for this programme are nonsense.
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/lisa-dorrian-disappeared-jean-mcconvilles-son-urges-unionist-leaders-to-press-loyalist-paramilitaries-over-what-happened-to-missing-woman-29730049.html


  • #808
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So why was the focus of the programme not this woman's family? Recent (with a chance that people will have vivid memories of where she is buried) and high profile.
    Your claims for this programme are nonsense.
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/lisa-dorrian-disappeared-jean-mcconvilles-son-urges-unionist-leaders-to-press-loyalist-paramilitaries-over-what-happened-to-missing-woman-29730049.html

    The focus of the programme was the Disappeared. Jean McConville is the most high profile case of the Disappeared. That bit you understand, yes?

    What you are saying is, allegations against Adams and his involvement in the most high profile Disappeared case (the disappeared being the focus of the programme) should be completely ignored?

    The mental gymnastics are astounding. :) I fear I am wasting my time trying to explain it to you.


  • #809
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    awec wrote: »
    The focus of the programme was the Disappeared. Jean McConville is the most high profile case of the Disappeared. That bit you understand, yes?

    What you are saying is, allegations against Adams and his involvement in the most high profile Disappeared case (the disappeared being the focus of the programme) should be completely ignored?

    The mental gymnastics are astounding. :) I fear I am wasting my time trying to explain it to you.

    I am asking you very clearly, if the programme was about 'THE DISAPPEARED' why was the focus not on somebody STILL actually disappeared and her family?


  • #810
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I am asking you very clearly, if the programme was about 'THE DISAPPEARED' why was the focus not on somebody STILL actually disappeared and her family?

    Because Jean McConville, even though she has been found, is STILL a member of The Disappeared. She is STILL the most high profile case in the Disappeared.

    Columba McVeigh and Kevin McKee's family were both featured in the programme. Neither have been found to date.


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  • #811
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,651 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Pierce Doherty has just stood up in the Dail and said he has come into possession of more Anglo tapes and he's considering releasing them.
    Might that be some sort of idle threat to leave poor Gerry alone?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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