Landlords have put up rent!

Tard · 05-11-2013 1:22pm #1

Received an e-mail this morning telling me that our rent will go up in the new year due to the increase in rental values. Our lease was extended for one year in September just gone.
Is she allowed to do this??

Thanks!

djimi · 05-11-2013 1:23pm

No, not if the fixed term lease is still in effect. Is the rental amount written into the lease?

Tard · 05-11-2013 1:27pm

Yes, it says how much the current rent is. She says it's because the rent has gone for our type of accommodation on Daft.ie and it's only fair that the same applies to us

wirelessdude01 · 05-11-2013 1:29pm

Can only be increased at the end of the fixed lease that you signed. Assume that the lease contains an end date or date that it began and length of lease.

djimi · 05-11-2013 1:38pm

They have signed a contract with you to charge €x amount per month for the duration of the lease; they cannot change this while the contract (lease) is still in effect. They are within their rights to review the rent once in a 12 month period, but that cant happen for you now until the lease expires in September.

Thargor · 05-11-2013 1:41pm

Please update what happens with this Tard as I have a feeling Ill be facing a similar situation with my LL this weekend.

Tard · 05-11-2013 1:42pm

Haven't it here but almost sure I remember it having the start and end date! Thanks a million for both of your help.

Tard · 05-11-2013 1:42pm

Thargor wrote: »

Please update what happens with this Tard as I have a feeling Ill be facing a similar situation with my LL this weekend.

Will do!

Paulw · 05-11-2013 2:08pm

Here are the facts - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

Under Section 19 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (pdf) landlords cannot charge more than the open market rate for the apartment or house. You should note that the provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act only apply to mainstream private rented housing. Your landlord cannot review the rent more than once a year unless the accommodation has changed substantially. This might, for example, constitute a complete refurbishment or another major change. You can ask your landlord to review the rent if:

You think it is more than the current market rate for the property or
You want a new review and more than a year has passed.

Your landlord has the right to review the rent annually. However your landlord must give you at least 28 days notice (in writing) before increasing the rent. If there is any dispute about the amount of rent or about arrears of rent, either side can refer the dispute to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB). You must contact the PRTB before the date the new rent comes into effect or within 28 days of getting the notice, whichever is later.

D3PO · 05-11-2013 2:28pm

Paulw wrote: »

Here are the facts - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

Under Section 19 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (pdf) landlords cannot charge more than the open market rate for the apartment or house. You should note that the provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act only apply to mainstream private rented housing. Your landlord cannot review the rent more than once a year unless the accommodation has changed substantially. This might, for example, constitute a complete refurbishment or another major change. You can ask your landlord to review the rent if:

You think it is more than the current market rate for the property or
You want a new review and more than a year has passed.

Your landlord has the right to review the rent annually. However your landlord must give you at least 28 days notice (in writing) before increasing the rent. If there is any dispute about the amount of rent or about arrears of rent, either side can refer the dispute to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB). You must contact the PRTB before the date the new rent comes into effect or within 28 days of getting the notice, whichever is later.

This is essentially irrelevant as the OP has a lease.

Even if it was relevant (which its not) the provision of a new lease with detail of the rental amount due in it is a defacto review of the rent. The RTA states a yearly review not a yearly increase.

OP they have no basis to increase your rent tell them that your not paying it and that they should understand the legalities of the RTA 2004 before contacting you about such nonsense.

Tard · 05-11-2013 2:53pm

She has now said that 'Rent can be changed anytime after the intial 12 month period.'
If this has been written in the lease can the rent then be increased?

Paulw · 05-11-2013 3:02pm

D3PO wrote: »

This is essentially irrelevant as the OP has a lease.

Even if it was relevant (which its not) the provision of a new lease with detail of the rental amount due in it is a defacto review of the rent. The RTA states a yearly review not a yearly increase.

OP they have no basis to increase your rent tell them that your not paying it and that they should understand the legalities of the RTA 2004 before contacting you about such nonsense.

Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.

odds_on · 05-11-2013 3:30pm

Paulw wrote: »

Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.

But the OP has a signed contract stating the rent for the current term of the fixed term lease.

The landlord/lady should have thought of the rent review before signing a new contract - she had the opportunity but failed to use it.

Frank Lee Midere · 05-11-2013 3:31pm

Paulw wrote: »

Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.

No. The extension is a recontract. If the LL wanted the right to increase she could have left the contract run into a month by month.

odds_on · 05-11-2013 3:34pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No. The extension is a recontract. If the LL wanted the right to increase she could have left the contract run into a month by month.

She could have, as most landlords do, had the rent increase before making a new fixed term contract.

sarah stooopid · 05-11-2013 3:44pm

So can the rent not be increased until the 2nd contract is up?

Paulw · 05-11-2013 3:44pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No. The extension is a recontract. If the LL wanted the right to increase she could have left the contract run into a month by month.

No, the extension is not a recontract, it's an extension of the existing contract.

So,

Right to review of rent where none provided.

21.—If the lease or tenancy agreement concerned does not provide for such a review or the tenancy concerned is an implied one, either party may, subject to section 20 , require a review of the rent under the tenancy to be carried out and a new rent, if appropriate, set on foot of that review.

Which indicates that the landlord may still review the rent, once the initial 12 months have passed, even if there is no explicit rent review listed in the extended contract.

But, again, the PRTB and/or Threshold is where the OP should go to for clarification.

Frank Lee Midere · 05-11-2013 3:53pm

Paulw wrote: »

No, the extension is not a recontract, it's an extension of the existing contract.

So,

Right to review of rent where none provided.

21.—If the lease or tenancy agreement concerned does not provide for such a review or the tenancy concerned is an implied one, either party may, subject to section 20 , require a review of the rent under the tenancy to be carried out and a new rent, if appropriate, set on foot of that review.

Which indicates that the landlord may still review the rent, once the initial 12 months have passed, even if there is no explicit rent review listed in the extended contract.

But, again, the PRTB and/or Threshold is where the OP should go to for clarification.

The tenacy isn't implied. It's a contract. And the tenacy does specify a review period of one year. That's why it is a one year contract. If it were a two year contract that would be the review period.

Contract law supersedes implied agreements. The op can't leave the house now either.
Not without penalty. ( although the land lord has to make reasonable effort to lend the place). She owes for a year. Professional landlords know this.

reprazant · 05-11-2013 3:58pm

Completely disagree Paulw. The LL was given the option of reviewing the rent at the end of the last lease. Since, no rental change was deemed necessary, a new lease was signed. Whether this is an extension of the old lease or a new lease is semantics, the time for a rental review was at the end of the original lease, not once a new lease has been signed.

Paulw · 05-11-2013 4:03pm

reprazant wrote: »

Completely disagree Paulw.

Us agreeing or disagreeing is secondary.:D It is down to the tenant and their landlord to come to an agreement, and, as I advised, the OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for specific clarification on their own situation.

I don't mind people not seeing it my way. It's just my opinion and reading of the RTA 2004. I'm not a professional landlord, nor a landlord at all, so it doesn't bother me.

If the OP is really concerned they should get professional advice on their situation, aside from the opinions voiced on boards.

Rick Rod · 05-11-2013 4:05pm

D3PO wrote: »

This is essentially irrelevant as the OP has a lease.

Even if it was relevant (which its not) the provision of a new lease with detail of the rental amount due in it is a defacto review of the rent. The RTA states a yearly review not a yearly increase.

OP they have no basis to increase your rent tell them that your not paying it and that they should understand the legalities of the RTA 2004 before contacting you about such nonsense.

You are incorrect. Once the initial lease has expired the rent can be reviewed as outlined even if the lease has rolled

reprazant · 05-11-2013 4:13pm

Rick Rod wrote: »

You are incorrect. Once the initial lease has expired the rent can be reviewed as outlined even if the lease has rolled

From what the Op says, a new lease has been signed as opposed to the current lease just rolling over though that may need to be confirmed.

Rick Rod · 05-11-2013 4:15pm

reprazant wrote: »

From what the Op says, a new lease has been signed as opposed to the current lease just rolling over though that may need to be confirmed.

Doesn't matter.

reprazant · 05-11-2013 4:17pm

Could you point out the legislation where it states this? Because otherwise there is zero point in signing a lease beyond the first year.

djimi · 05-11-2013 4:23pm

If the OP is in any doubt then they need to contact Threshold, but I would be utterly amazed if they are told anything different to what the majority have said on here, that the rent cannot be reviewed for the duration of a fixed term lease. The rent amount forms part of the signed terms of the lease; one party cannot just decide to change the terms of a legal contract mid way through.

QuiteInterestin · 05-11-2013 4:30pm

Check with threshold but my interpretation would be that the landlord cannot increase the rent during a fixed term contract. You signed a new contract in September which specified that you would pay X amount per month for a year and that still stands. If your landlord wanted to increase the rent she should have done it then and given you the chance to accept the rent increase, appeal it to the PRTB or move out. If increasing it during a fixed term contract was allowed, if you decided that the rent increase was more then you could afford, you wouldn't have the option to move out as you would still be tied to the year long lease you have signed. That's my opinion anyways, best check the facts with Threshold though.

djimi · 05-11-2013 4:40pm

Out of curiosity I have just contacted Threshold and they agree that once there is a fixed term lease in effect (which has the rent amount written to the lease) then the rent cannot be reviewed until the fixed term lease has expired.

OP if the landlord persists with this then take a case with the PRTB to dispute the increase. While you are waiting for the case to be heard you may remain paying your current rate. If the PRTB rule against you then you will have to pay the difference back dated to the date of the official notice, but to be honest it sounds unlikely that they would rule against you.

QuiteInterestin · 05-11-2013 4:42pm

Just out of interest, how long does it take PRTB to deal with disputes like these? How long would you be waiting for a hearing?

Tard · 05-11-2013 4:53pm

I rang the PRTB and was told that she is within her rights to increase the rent after 12 months if she has specified it in the lease and if the new charge is similar to that of the rent in the area. Monkey nuts.
Thanks for the help anyway and donations will be warmly accepted. PM me for bank acc details.

Thanks!

djimi · 05-11-2013 4:56pm

Specified what in the lease? As in, has amended the rent amount to the increased figure, or specified that the rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice?

Tard · 05-11-2013 4:56pm

I wonder why I've been told different??

techdiver · 05-11-2013 5:02pm

Tard wrote: »

I rang the PRTB and was told that she is within her rights to increase the rent after 12 months if she has specified it in the lease and if the new charge is similar to that of the rent in the area. Monkey nuts.
Thanks for the help anyway and donations will be warmly accepted. PM me for bank acc details.

Thanks!

But according to you this is not the case and the lease you signed persists with the existing rent and conditions??

Tard · 05-11-2013 5:03pm

That the rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice.. and that we can leave with 28 days notice.

Tard · 05-11-2013 5:08pm

I asked if it had been written in the lease then would the increase be allowed

reprazant · 05-11-2013 5:09pm

if what was written in the lease? That the ll can increase the rent?

drumswan · 05-11-2013 5:09pm

Tard wrote: »

I asked if it had been written in the lease then would the increase be allowed

And is it?

The_Conductor · 05-11-2013 5:10pm

Tard wrote: »

That the rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice.. and that we can leave with 28 days notice.

The rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice. As the tenancy has been in place between 1 and 2 years- you have to give 7 weeks notice (42 days) if you with to leave, not 28 days.

Tard · 05-11-2013 5:14pm

I haven't got it with me. I don't remember seeing it when I read (skimmed through) it. I only got the mail when I got into work.

D3PO · 05-11-2013 5:14pm

Paulw wrote: »

Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.

Wrong the review can mean an increase, a decrease or the status quo remaining. If you resign a new contract that is a defacto review of the rent as both parties review the terms of the new contract (lease)

The OP has a fixed term lease that means the term and the conditions of that remain in place until the lease ends. You cant change the terms of a lease halfway through.

odds_on · 05-11-2013 5:16pm

Tard wrote: »

I rang the PRTB and was told that she is within her rights to increase the rent after 12 months if she has specified it in the lease and if the new charge is similar to that of the rent in the area. Monkey nuts.
Thanks for the help anyway and donations will be warmly accepted. PM me for bank acc details.

Thanks!

Many people have inquired of the PRTB by phone and have been given incorrect information (usually because all the facts have not been given and discussed.

The PRTB are quite right - the landlord is within her rights to increase the rent (in line with the current market rent) after 1 months. However, this assumes that the tenancy has become a Part 4 tenancy (where the tenant has less rights than those offered in a fixed term agreement. Under Part 4 tenancy laws, the landlord may have a rent review at any time (but not within 12 months of any previous review). Thus 2 months into a Part 4 tenancy, the rent may be reviewed with no problem.

A fixed term lease is a legally binding contract and cannot be change by one side. Unless there is a clause in the fixed term agreement that allows for a rent review / increase during the term of the lease, the rent cannot be reviewed during that term.

D3PO · 05-11-2013 5:16pm

Rick Rod wrote: »

You are incorrect. Once the initial lease has expired the rent can be reviewed as outlined even if the lease has rolled

The lease hasn't rolled if you read correctly you would notice the OP signed a new lease.

djimi · 05-11-2013 5:17pm

D3PO wrote: »

Wrong the review can mean an increase, a decrease or the status quo remaining. If you resign a new contract that is a defacto review of the rent as both parties review the terms of the new contract (lease)

The OP has a fixed term lease that means the term and the conditions of that remain in place until the lease ends. You cant change the terms of a lease halfway through.

You see, this is exactly how I see it. If you put a piece of paper in front of me with an amount written onto it, and we both sign it, then we are both agreeing to the terms. Therefore, the rent has been reviewed for this 12 month period. It hasnt changed, but because you have given me a new lease to sign with the amount written onto it, it can be taken that the amount has been reviewed and no change was made.

Grandpa Hassan · 05-11-2013 5:18pm

reprazant wrote: »

Could you point out the legislation where it states this? Because otherwise there is zero point in signing a lease beyond the first year.

You're right. There is zero point either party signing a lease after the 1st year. Time and time again we read how part 4 rights trump any rights the LL has written into the 2nd 12 month lease (such as termination periods etc). It stands to reason that that works both ways, and that the LL can review the rent here, even if the lease is another fixed term one.

Or is the sugegstion that part 4 arrangements only apply to the tenant, whilst the LL has to abide by the lease terms

odds_on · 05-11-2013 5:19pm

D3PO wrote: »

The lease hasn't rolled if you read correctly you would notice the OP signed a new lease.

Exactly. A fixed term lease expires at the end of the term. Then a new contract is signed with any new rent. If the landlord has failed to increase the rent then the landlord must wait until that agreement expires.

odds_on · 05-11-2013 5:24pm

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

You're right. There is zero point either party signing a lease after the 1st year. Time and time again we read how part 4 rights trump any rights the LL has written into the 2nd 12 month lease (such as termination periods etc). It stands to reason that that works both ways, and that the LL can review the rent here, even if the lease is another fixed term one.

Or is the sugegstion that part 4 arrangements only apply to the tenant, whilst the LL has to abide by the lease terms

Wrong.
A fixed term lease gives the tenant more security of tenure than a Part 4 lease does. With a fixed term lease, a landlord cannot evict a tenant under the grounds available in the RTA 2004.

Likewise, the rent cannot be changed (up or down) during a fixed term lease. In a Part 4 tenancy there is no restriction on a rent review apart from there not being one within 12 months of the previous review.

Grandpa Hassan · 05-11-2013 5:28pm

odds_on wrote: »

Exactly. A fixed term lease expires at the end of the term. Then a new contract is signed with any new rent. If the landlord has failed to increase the rent then the landlord must wait until that agreement expires.

But that lease is overridden from the tenant's perspective with his or her rights in part 4. Even if a fixed term lease says there is a 28 day notice period, for example, that is overridden by the 42 day notice period set out in part 4. Surely the same would apply to the LL.

basically a fixed term lease beyond the first year is not worth the paper it is written on

ANXIOUS · 05-11-2013 5:29pm

djimi wrote: »

If the OP is in any doubt then they need to contact Threshold, but I would be utterly amazed if they are told anything different to what the majority have said on here, that the rent cannot be reviewed for the duration of a fixed term lease. The rent amount forms part of the signed terms of the lease; one party cannot just decide to change the terms of a legal contract mid way through.

Lol, what about when rent allowance is cut? Does that only come in at the end of the contract?

djimi · 05-11-2013 5:31pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Lol, what about when rent allowance is cut? Does that only come in at the end of the contract?

Well obviously if both parties agree to a change then a change can be made. In the case of RA then the landlord doesnt really have much choice but to agree to it.

But we are not talking about RA, so Im not sure why you felt the need to bring it up?

drumswan · 05-11-2013 5:32pm

Lots of people definite about this one way or the other. In fact is it anything but clear.

djimi · 05-11-2013 5:33pm

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

But that lease is overridden from the tenant's perspective with his or her rights in part 4. Even if a fixed term lease says there is a 28 day notice period, for example, that is overridden by the 42 day notice period set out in part 4. Surely the same would apply to the LL.

basically a fixed term lease beyond the first year is not worth the paper it is written on

Why would it be any different after the first year?

What notice periods are overridden by a part 4? Generally speaking, there are no notice periods in a fixed term lease aside from a break clause.

sweetie · 05-11-2013 5:36pm

My take and interpretation is that you stay on your current rate till next september. Do not pay anything without consulting with Threshold. I would think the PRTB would lean more towards the lanlords side (he who pays the piper...)

Landlords have put up rent!

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