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Landlords have put up rent!

  • 05-11-2013 12:22pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    Received an e-mail this morning telling me that our rent will go up in the new year due to the increase in rental values. Our lease was extended for one year in September just gone.
    Is she allowed to do this??

    Thanks!
    Tagged:


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 djimi


    No, not if the fixed term lease is still in effect. Is the rental amount written into the lease?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    Yes, it says how much the current rent is. She says it's because the rent has gone for our type of accommodation on Daft.ie and it's only fair that the same applies to us


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭ wirelessdude01


    Can only be increased at the end of the fixed lease that you signed. Assume that the lease contains an end date or date that it began and length of lease.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 djimi


    They have signed a contract with you to charge €x amount per month for the duration of the lease; they cannot change this while the contract (lease) is still in effect. They are within their rights to review the rent once in a 12 month period, but that cant happen for you now until the lease expires in September.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,207 ✭✭✭✭ Thargor


    Please update what happens with this Tard as I have a feeling Ill be facing a similar situation with my LL this weekend.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    Haven't it here but almost sure I remember it having the start and end date! Thanks a million for both of your help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    Thargor wrote: »
    Please update what happens with this Tard as I have a feeling Ill be facing a similar situation with my LL this weekend.


    Will do!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Paulw


    Here are the facts - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

    Under Section 19 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (pdf) landlords cannot charge more than the open market rate for the apartment or house. You should note that the provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act only apply to mainstream private rented housing. Your landlord cannot review the rent more than once a year unless the accommodation has changed substantially. This might, for example, constitute a complete refurbishment or another major change. You can ask your landlord to review the rent if:

    You think it is more than the current market rate for the property or
    You want a new review and more than a year has passed.

    Your landlord has the right to review the rent annually. However your landlord must give you at least 28 days notice (in writing) before increasing the rent. If there is any dispute about the amount of rent or about arrears of rent, either side can refer the dispute to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB). You must contact the PRTB before the date the new rent comes into effect or within 28 days of getting the notice, whichever is later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,879 D3PO


    Paulw wrote: »
    Here are the facts - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

    Under Section 19 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (pdf) landlords cannot charge more than the open market rate for the apartment or house. You should note that the provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act only apply to mainstream private rented housing. Your landlord cannot review the rent more than once a year unless the accommodation has changed substantially. This might, for example, constitute a complete refurbishment or another major change. You can ask your landlord to review the rent if:

    You think it is more than the current market rate for the property or
    You want a new review and more than a year has passed.

    Your landlord has the right to review the rent annually. However your landlord must give you at least 28 days notice (in writing) before increasing the rent. If there is any dispute about the amount of rent or about arrears of rent, either side can refer the dispute to the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB). You must contact the PRTB before the date the new rent comes into effect or within 28 days of getting the notice, whichever is later.

    This is essentially irrelevant as the OP has a lease.

    Even if it was relevant (which its not) the provision of a new lease with detail of the rental amount due in it is a defacto review of the rent. The RTA states a yearly review not a yearly increase.

    OP they have no basis to increase your rent tell them that your not paying it and that they should understand the legalities of the RTA 2004 before contacting you about such nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    She has now said that 'Rent can be changed anytime after the intial 12 month period.'
    If this has been written in the lease can the rent then be increased?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Paulw


    D3PO wrote: »
    This is essentially irrelevant as the OP has a lease.

    Even if it was relevant (which its not) the provision of a new lease with detail of the rental amount due in it is a defacto review of the rent. The RTA states a yearly review not a yearly increase.

    OP they have no basis to increase your rent tell them that your not paying it and that they should understand the legalities of the RTA 2004 before contacting you about such nonsense.

    Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

    A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

    The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 odds_on


    Paulw wrote: »
    Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

    A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

    The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.
    But the OP has a signed contract stating the rent for the current term of the fixed term lease.

    The landlord/lady should have thought of the rent review before signing a new contract - she had the opportunity but failed to use it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,781 Frank Lee Midere


    Paulw wrote: »
    Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

    A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

    The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.

    No. The extension is a recontract. If the LL wanted the right to increase she could have left the contract run into a month by month.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 odds_on


    No. The extension is a recontract. If the LL wanted the right to increase she could have left the contract run into a month by month.
    She could have, as most landlords do, had the rent increase before making a new fixed term contract.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 sarah stooopid


    So can the rent not be increased until the 2nd contract is up?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Paulw


    No. The extension is a recontract. If the LL wanted the right to increase she could have left the contract run into a month by month.

    No, the extension is not a recontract, it's an extension of the existing contract.

    So,

    Right to review of rent where none provided.

    21.—If the lease or tenancy agreement concerned does not provide for such a review or the tenancy concerned is an implied one, either party may, subject to section 20 , require a review of the rent under the tenancy to be carried out and a new rent, if appropriate, set on foot of that review.

    Which indicates that the landlord may still review the rent, once the initial 12 months have passed, even if there is no explicit rent review listed in the extended contract.

    But, again, the PRTB and/or Threshold is where the OP should go to for clarification.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,781 Frank Lee Midere


    Paulw wrote: »
    No, the extension is not a recontract, it's an extension of the existing contract.

    So,

    Right to review of rent where none provided.

    21.—If the lease or tenancy agreement concerned does not provide for such a review or the tenancy concerned is an implied one, either party may, subject to section 20 , require a review of the rent under the tenancy to be carried out and a new rent, if appropriate, set on foot of that review.

    Which indicates that the landlord may still review the rent, once the initial 12 months have passed, even if there is no explicit rent review listed in the extended contract.

    But, again, the PRTB and/or Threshold is where the OP should go to for clarification.

    The tenacy isn't implied. It's a contract. And the tenacy does specify a review period of one year. That's why it is a one year contract. If it were a two year contract that would be the review period.

    Contract law supersedes implied agreements. The op can't leave the house now either.
    Not without penalty. ( although the land lord has to make reasonable effort to lend the place). She owes for a year. Professional landlords know this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭ reprazant


    Completely disagree Paulw. The LL was given the option of reviewing the rent at the end of the last lease. Since, no rental change was deemed necessary, a new lease was signed. Whether this is an extension of the old lease or a new lease is semantics, the time for a rental review was at the end of the original lease, not once a new lease has been signed.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Paulw


    reprazant wrote: »
    Completely disagree Paulw.

    Us agreeing or disagreeing is secondary.:D It is down to the tenant and their landlord to come to an agreement, and, as I advised, the OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for specific clarification on their own situation.

    I don't mind people not seeing it my way. It's just my opinion and reading of the RTA 2004. I'm not a professional landlord, nor a landlord at all, so it doesn't bother me.

    If the OP is really concerned they should get professional advice on their situation, aside from the opinions voiced on boards.


  • Site Banned Posts: 64 ✭✭✭ Rick Rod


    D3PO wrote: »
    This is essentially irrelevant as the OP has a lease.

    Even if it was relevant (which its not) the provision of a new lease with detail of the rental amount due in it is a defacto review of the rent. The RTA states a yearly review not a yearly increase.

    OP they have no basis to increase your rent tell them that your not paying it and that they should understand the legalities of the RTA 2004 before contacting you about such nonsense.

    You are incorrect. Once the initial lease has expired the rent can be reviewed as outlined even if the lease has rolled


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭ reprazant


    Rick Rod wrote: »
    You are incorrect. Once the initial lease has expired the rent can be reviewed as outlined even if the lease has rolled

    From what the Op says, a new lease has been signed as opposed to the current lease just rolling over though that may need to be confirmed.


  • Site Banned Posts: 64 ✭✭✭ Rick Rod


    reprazant wrote: »
    From what the Op says, a new lease has been signed as opposed to the current lease just rolling over though that may need to be confirmed.

    Doesn't matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭ reprazant


    Could you point out the legislation where it states this? Because otherwise there is zero point in signing a lease beyond the first year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 djimi


    If the OP is in any doubt then they need to contact Threshold, but I would be utterly amazed if they are told anything different to what the majority have said on here, that the rent cannot be reviewed for the duration of a fixed term lease. The rent amount forms part of the signed terms of the lease; one party cannot just decide to change the terms of a legal contract mid way through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭ QuiteInterestin


    Check with threshold but my interpretation would be that the landlord cannot increase the rent during a fixed term contract. You signed a new contract in September which specified that you would pay X amount per month for a year and that still stands. If your landlord wanted to increase the rent she should have done it then and given you the chance to accept the rent increase, appeal it to the PRTB or move out. If increasing it during a fixed term contract was allowed, if you decided that the rent increase was more then you could afford, you wouldn't have the option to move out as you would still be tied to the year long lease you have signed. That's my opinion anyways, best check the facts with Threshold though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 djimi


    Out of curiosity I have just contacted Threshold and they agree that once there is a fixed term lease in effect (which has the rent amount written to the lease) then the rent cannot be reviewed until the fixed term lease has expired.

    OP if the landlord persists with this then take a case with the PRTB to dispute the increase. While you are waiting for the case to be heard you may remain paying your current rate. If the PRTB rule against you then you will have to pay the difference back dated to the date of the official notice, but to be honest it sounds unlikely that they would rule against you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭ QuiteInterestin


    Just out of interest, how long does it take PRTB to deal with disputes like these? How long would you be waiting for a hearing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    I rang the PRTB and was told that she is within her rights to increase the rent after 12 months if she has specified it in the lease and if the new charge is similar to that of the rent in the area. Monkey nuts.
    Thanks for the help anyway and donations will be warmly accepted. PM me for bank acc details.

    Thanks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 djimi


    Specified what in the lease? As in, has amended the rent amount to the increased figure, or specified that the rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    I wonder why I've been told different??


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