The girl found on O'Connell Street

Lord Trollington · 05-11-2013 03:07PM

I know someone who was close to the case <snip>

Mod Note:
It's worrying that someone close to the case would reveal information that can subsequently be posted on a message board. It's best we don't spread that kind of information unless it has been officially released.

Billy86 · 05-11-2013 03:08PM

It's made Sky News now. Might even gather a head of steam and become international like the Bulgarian/Roma girl, given the odd circumstances. Really hoping not, but there's likely a very horrific story behind all of this.

I Heart Internet · 05-11-2013 03:23PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I was thinking if they release a random 20 word snippet of conversation "all over the internet" and it happens to be along the lines of 'and then the police-chief raped me, before my uncle sold me to the man who runs the docks', well depending on the laws of the country involved you may have totally prejudiced a trial and thus multiple people get off scott-free?

That's an extraordinarily long long shot!!

A 10-20 second speech recording circulated online could well crack where she's from.....unless she is speaking a made-up/mixed bag of languages.

I Heart Internet · 05-11-2013 03:27PM

Corkbah wrote: »

for one it will establish if she is a minor or an adult…. which means different officers within the Gardai/HSE would have to be assigned to the case.

if she is over the age of 18 - which is possible - then she is an adult, if she is under that she is a minor and legally has to be taken care of by the state.

Since she seems to be a minor and seems to be in an extremly vulnerable position, can't we just assume she is a minor, thereby giving her as much protection and support as possible.

If it's assumed she's an adult then she could (possibly) be let back on the streets with the number of a few B&Bs and an appointment with a social worker in 2016. I know things aren't that bad - but assume she's a a kid and take the best possible care of her!

Devi · 05-11-2013 04:00PM

They can’t release a snippet of conversation because she’s not having any. She’s only started to say the few words in broken English, not her native language. She’s also has braces, which suggest that she was abducted relatively recently as braces have to be adjusted every so often. I think she is just completely traumatised by the whole ordeal.

josip · 05-11-2013 04:09PM

Wouldn't the braces have to be fitted by an orthodontist somewhere?

I assume the Gardai have contacted all orthodontists in Ireland.
@Dentists, would it be possible to determine the country of fitting by the style/material of the braces?
Would it have been unusual for an orthodontist in any country to be fitting braces to a girl who couldn't speak and who may have appeared traumatised at the time?

denhaagenite · 05-11-2013 04:29PM

Devi wrote: »

She’s also has braces, which suggest that she was abducted relatively recently as braces have to be adjusted every so often.QUOTE]

If she's had braces, what is the problem? What about DNA to try and narrow down possibilities of ethnicity?? They don't really seem to be trying to help themselves at all

emmabrighton · 05-11-2013 04:31PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Devi wrote: »

She’s also has braces, which suggest that she was abducted relatively recently as braces have to be adjusted every so often.

If she's had braces, what is the problem? What about DNA to try and narrow down possibilities of ethnicity?? They don't really seem to be trying to help themselves at all

Yes, and if they had half a braincell between them they would be on boards.ie following each and every one of our CSI Recommendations...

The incompetence of it all!

denhaagenite · 05-11-2013 04:36PM

emmabrighton wrote: »

Yes, and if they had half a braincell between them they would be on boards.ie following each and every one of our CSI Recommendations...

The incompetence of it all!

Not claiming to have any knowledge of CSI methods, but could you explain to me what was wrong with my suggestion??

It's been a long day, but I was under the impression that if they wanted to find out where she came from (which by all accounts they are desperately trying to do), and there is evidence of dental records being available (ie orthodontics) that databases of dental records would identify a person??

Billy86 · 05-11-2013 04:38PM

emmabrighton wrote: »

denhaagenite wrote: »

Devi wrote: »

She’s also has braces, which suggest that she was abducted relatively recently as braces have to be adjusted every so often.

Yes, and if they had half a braincell between them they would be on boards.ie following each and every one of our CSI Recommendations...

The incompetence of it all!

To be fair, have you ever heard of the infamous traffic criminal Prawo Jazdy?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7899171.stm

05-11-2013 04:38PM

If this girl was abducted from a young age, then do people really think there'll be official records of things like getting braces fixed? I mean, for all we know, it probably wasn't done by an actual orthodontist. And even if it was, there's no way to know how long she's been in Ireland for and whether the procedure was done here.

You really have to wonder about people when they make light of something like this. God only knows what that poor girl has been through.

emmabrighton · 05-11-2013 04:44PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Not claiming to have any knowledge of CSI methods, but could you explain to me what was wrong with my suggestion??

It's been a long day, but I was under the impression that if they wanted to find out where she came from (which by all accounts they are desperately trying to do), and there is evidence of dental records being available (ie orthodontics) that databases of dental records would identify a person??

Neither do I, and your method is probably sound. Its more that we are gossiping amongst ourselves no matter how ingenious our suggestions are, it will be unlikely that they will ever make it past this thread...

Like, I was thinking to myself that a linguistics expert may be able to narrow her language of origin down to a hand full of possibilities but they probably already have thought of that and it hasn't been successful. And then I was thinking, if the girl had been trafficked for the sex industry, there has to be a number of Johns out there that know more about her circumstances. Like, 1) where was she held or 2) who her pimp is but would be unlikely to come forward for fear of prosecution. And then I thought, what if they were promised immunity from prosecution...

Uriel. · 05-11-2013 04:57PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Not claiming to have any knowledge of CSI methods, but could you explain to me what was wrong with my suggestion??

It's been a long day, but I was under the impression that if they wanted to find out where she came from (which by all accounts they are desperately trying to do), and there is evidence of dental records being available (ie orthodontics) that databases of dental records would identify a person??

Maybe they have. Perhaps they're waiting for info. to come back. Maybe the braces were fitted by her captors using a dentist "off the books". We just don't know what's happening behind the scenes. I am sure the Gardai are doing everything available to them.

I see people calling for dna and bone marrow testing and all sorts of stuff. You'd think it was as easy as shoving a needle in her. The Gardai had to convince a judge to allow them to publish a photo. The girl is legally entitled to bodily integrity. She doesn't appear to be overly communicative, she is likely to be traumatised and of unsound mind, she probably can't consent or won't consent to testing etc. There's loads of issues that require due process.

The_Valeyard · 05-11-2013 05:15PM

I thought bone barrow testing would be very painful? Not really sure they should go to that lengths to find her identity.

sbsquarepants · 05-11-2013 05:18PM

It's a very strange case, I can't see how they are having such difficulty identifying the language for a start, and there is just no excusing that photo. It's not like all they have to go on is some crappy cctv or the likes, they have the girl in custody point a god damn camera at her and get a decent quality photo, then there might be some hope of somebody recognising her.
There are better quality pictures of big foot ffs!

Edit: - Just noticed the girl is not actually talking in her native language, so that explains that. But those photos are beyond ridiculous.

05-11-2013 05:23PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's a very strange case, I can't see how they are having such difficulty identifying the language for a start, and there is just no excusing that photo. It's not like all they have to go on is some crappy cctv or the likes, they have the girl in custody point a god damn camera at her and get a decent quality photo, then there might be some hope of somebody recognising her.
There are better quality pictures of big foot ffs!

It's been said a few times that the girl has barely uttered a few words and most of these have been in broken English, not her native language. And as for the photo, if you were subjected to horrific acts, especially ones that would likely have been filmed, would you really want a camera shoved in your face?

The HSE are acting in the girl's interest and were almost not going to let the Gardaí release an image of her at all. This is someone who is likely a child, remember, who is under state care.

Santa Cruz · 05-11-2013 05:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's been said a few times that the girl has barely uttered a few words and most of these have been in broken English, not her native language. And as for the photo, if you were subjected to horrific acts, especially ones that would likely have been filmed, would you really want a camera shoved in your face?

The HSE are acting in the girl's interest and were almost not going to let the Gardaí release an image of her at all. This is someone who is likely a child, remember, who is under state care.

"broken English" Have they checked if anyone is missing from Kerry

sbsquarepants · 05-11-2013 05:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's been said a few times that the girl has barely uttered a few words and most of these have been in broken English, not her native language. And as for the photo, if you were subjected to horrific acts, especially ones that would likely have been filmed, would you really want a camera shoved in your face?

The HSE are acting in the girl's interest and were almost not going to let the Gardaí release an image of her at all. This is someone who is likely a child, remember, who is under state care.

I hadn't noticed that she wasn't talking, so I can understand that part.
But the photo is just ridiculous, she's been in the care of the HSE for a good while now. I just do not accept that they couldn't get a better, clearer photo, even without disturbing the girl. Come on now, it's not that hard to photograph someone, even discretely and from a distance. If they are serious about identifying the poor child, amateur crap like this isn't going to help.

Think_then_talk · 05-11-2013 05:36PM

A very sad story someone must be missing her http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=12118

Uriel. · 05-11-2013 05:39PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's a very strange case, I can't see how they are having such difficulty identifying the language for a start, and there is just no excusing that photo. It's not like all they have to go on is some crappy cctv or the likes, they have the girl in custody point a god damn camera at her and get a decent quality photo, then there might be some hope of somebody recognising her.
There are better quality pictures of big foot ffs!

Edit: - Just noticed the girl is not actually talking in her native language, so that explains that. But those photos are beyond ridiculous.

At first, I thought the photo issue was a little strange, but at that time I hadn't realised the likelihood of the sexual abuse the girl went through and the possibility that it was filmed.

Knowing that now I can fully understand not wanting to point a camera at the girl. Legally, they may have to have her consent to do it anyway, she is not in a position to give legal consent at present. There may also be operational/strategic reasons for publishing the photos from CCTV - hoping that someone would recognise her from how she looked "out and about" and with particular clothing etc.

When you look at the catalogue of measures taken by the Gardai/State, I think it's fair to say they are committing huge effort and resources to getting to the bottom of the situation. With the breadth of experts involved in the case, I am sure they have a better and fuller understanding of how to investigate in comparison to arm chair investigators here on boards (incl. me).

Source: RTÉ

There has been a positive response for information following the release of a photograph of a teenage girl who was found in a distressed state in Dublin city centre last month.
Gardaí released the picture of the girl in an effort to identify her, after being granted permission to do so by the High Court.
The young girl is described as being 1.67m (5'6") tall, of slim build with long blonde hair.
When found she was wearing a purple hooded top, as well as tight, coloured jeans, flat black shoes and a grey woollen jumper.
These clothes may have been bought in Ireland.
Speaking on RTÉ’s News at One, Superintendent David Taylor said gardaí have not yet been able to establish who the girl is or where she is from.
He said Operation Shepherd, the garda investigation following the discovery of the girl, has involved over 2,000 man-hours and over 115 lines of inquiry.
Anyone with information can contact the incident room at Store Street Garda Station on 01-6668100 or by email to storestreetappeal@garda.ie.
Supt Taylor also said gardaí have carried out extensive inquiries in Ireland and abroad.
He said gardaí released the photograph in the hope that somebody out there might recognise the girl or may have had interactions with her, seen her, or know something about her.
Supt Taylor said the information was vital for the welfare of the teenager and urged anyone who had information but had not yet come forward to do so.
He said all information would be dealt with in the strictest confidence.
Earlier, gardaí said they sought the assistance of the Missing Persons Bureau, Interpol, the Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Unit and the Garda National Immigration Bureau among others.
They have carried out door-to-door inquiries, viewed CCTV footage from the city centre and checked the missing persons' list.
They have also been canvassing ports, airports and train stations with images of the girl.
B&Bs and guesthouses in the city centre have been checked for people who booked and did not turn up, or for people who stayed and did not return.
Gardaí have checked left luggage storage services in the city centre for uncollected luggage and for property that remains past its pre-paid date.
Paediatric orthodontists nationwide have also been canvassed, as the girl has a brace

syklops · 05-11-2013 05:39PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I hadn't noticed that she wasn't talking, so I can understand that part.
But the photo is just ridiculous, she's been in the care of the HSE for a good while now. I just do not accept that they couldn't get a better, clearer photo, even without disturbing the girl. Come on now, it's not that hard to photograph someone, even discretely and from a distance. If they are serious about identifying the poor child, amateur crap like this isn't going to help.

I don't know what amateur crap you're talking about. They look alright to me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardasiochana/sets/72157637338536136/

Uriel. · 05-11-2013 05:42PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I hadn't noticed that she wasn't talking, so I can understand that part.
But the photo is just ridiculous, she's been in the care of the HSE for a good while now. I just do not accept that they couldn't get a better, clearer photo, even without disturbing the girl. Come on now, it's not that hard to photograph someone, even discretely and from a distance. If they are serious about identifying the poor child, amateur crap like this isn't going to help.

Many reasons (mostly legal). other than professional thinking or requisite skills/equipment.

05-11-2013 05:49PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I hadn't noticed that she wasn't talking, so I can understand that part.
But the photo is just ridiculous, she's been in the care of the HSE for a good while now. I just do not accept that they couldn't get a better, clearer photo, even without disturbing the girl. Come on now, it's not that hard to photograph someone, even discretely and from a distance. If they are serious about identifying the poor child, amateur crap like this isn't going to help.

I think they've probably declined to just take a picture surreptitiously because they have to try build up some trust with the girl.

I would assume that any decent person working with her would do their best to have her full consent and co operation in anything they ask of or from her.

She might be terrified of her apparent captors finding her if her picture is made public, or her abusers. Her medical team would probably be keen for her to have full control over these things, since that right has apparently been denied her to date. I imagine that would be a key factor in her future recovery.

Wabbit Ears · 05-11-2013 05:54PM

I know this is a serious matter but I cant help but think there is strong parelles with this scene from Harold and Kumar 2

emmabrighton · 05-11-2013 05:59PM

You really have to worry for her.

What if she is never identified? What will happen to her? Will she just become another victim of the system?

What if she is identified and returned to her family who actually sold her to the traffickers in the first place?

Fridge · 05-11-2013 06:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If this girl was abducted from a young age, then do people really think there'll be official records of things like getting braces fixed?

There could be records. Do you expect them to assume there won't be and not investigate?

I mean, for all we know, it probably wasn't done by an actual orthodontist.

How many people would have orthodontic skills on the side but not actually be orthodontists / dentists of some sort? It's not something you just make a stab at and you have to have the equipment.

I know it's handy for criminals to have back alley doctors for when they don't want to have to explain injuries or worry it'll get out. But I wouldn't have thought there would be as much call for dentists. And especially for braces, which is such a normal procedure.

And even if it was, there's no way to know how long she's been in Ireland for and whether the procedure was done here.

If either the orthodontist who did it came forward in Ireland or Europe it would obviously provide clues. They might remember who brought her in (either her family or her abductors). And there may be methods used in different countries that could help pin down where she's from.

emmabrighton · 05-11-2013 06:06PM

Would it be likely that her abductors would bother paying for orthodontics? Would the increased revenue they would garner from their victim having straight pearly white teeth surpass the cost of getting braces on the girl?

If it wouldn't then I would imagine that her family paid for it, and if they did, they too were unlikely to do so if their plan was to sell her to child traffickers...

I really hope she does have a loving family that are missing her desperately and that she was kidnapped. poor girl

Uriel. · 05-11-2013 06:10PM

emmabrighton wrote: »

Would it be likely that her abductors would bother paying for orthodontics? Would the increased revenue they would garner from their victim having straight pearly white teeth surpass the cost of getting braces on the girl?

If it wouldn't then I would imagine that her family paid for it, and if they did, they too were unlikely to do so if their plan was to sell her to child traffickers...

I really hope she does have a loving family that are missing her desperately and that she was kidnapped. poor girl

possibly. They may have also got the braces to make her look even younger and/or to potentially complete the "schoolgirl image", thereby making her more appealing to "customers". Sounds sick and It is. But a possibility. We don't know at this point.

VONSHIRACH · 05-11-2013 06:11PM

I think the photograph is adequate for the authorities' ID search purposes, its not a facebook profile pic. You don't need a mugshot Myra Hindley type photo.

Unfortunately, in this country, the only people who may be able to shed any light on her may be traffickers, pimps or johns and these are not going to assist.

Nodin · 05-11-2013 06:13PM

somuj wrote: »

How many times have I seen pages and pages of moaning and complaining and pointing the finger and jumping to the wrong conclusions on after hours with very little information available.

Not as many as I have, I can tell ye that now.

The girl found on O'Connell Street

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