Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:45PM

donalh087 wrote: »

The threat must be "immediate and serious" to the child. A flight risk doesn't count.

There was no history of violence. There was no reason to take this child (these children).

This is a clumsy kneejerk reaction to the Maddy McCann TV programme.

We don't know that and we are all guessing.
The Garda's side of this has not been made public, just media and forum opinions. We don't know what took place or what conversations were had.

23-10-2013 10:46PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

in this situation , not all children in Ireland are in this situation , so that would be silly

Again, what is "this situation"? I had to get a new birth cert when I was 16 for a passport, mam reckoned the original was probably lost when I was about 6, my sister's when she was 2. I looked almost albino while my parents were both dark, very dodgy!

Ace2007 wrote: »

hypothetical situation, there are many irish families who have adopted legally children from abroad, suppose now that family goes to Kerry for a weekend, and the guards get a call from a journalist who says he sees this child with a man and woman that don't look like the parents. Will the guards take the child off them until they produce documents, (assuming the documents would be back in Dublin), or is this different?

I'm wondering if there's advice on the Irish embassies' website about making sure you have all the documents ready for traveling here. Maybe suggest getting the bloods dropped in at the start of their holiday so they don't have to get a late flight home.

wp_rathead · 23-10-2013 10:46PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

And what if the suspects do a runner with the kid in the meantime?

Police work 101 or do you watch any cop shows or what?

You are definitely taking the mickey now.

ha brilliant

23-10-2013 10:46PM

tayto lover wrote: »

We don't know that and we are all guessing.

Why is the kid back then?

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:48PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I would presume that every case like that would be taken on its own merits.

Exactly you'll treat an Irish person differently to a Roma family - thank you for clearing that up.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:48PM

gandalf wrote: »

The real question is will whoever in the HSE who made the decision to take the child from their parents without checking the records properly of the hospital that she was born in face sanction for a pretty major cock-up.

If I rang the airport to book a 7 a.m. flight to Madrid and they told me there was no 7 a.m. flight would I be responsible for the mistake if there was?

emo72 · 23-10-2013 10:48PM

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

Because they're all the same, is that it?

yes of course

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:49PM

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

You don't understand how evidence and proof work do you?

i do , thanks

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:49PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Exactly you'll treat an Irish person differently to a Roma family - thank you for clearing that up.

Bull**** jump there. Do not accuse me of racism please as i'm not a racist.
Says more about you that you have.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, what is "this situation"? I had to get a new birth cert when I was 16 for a passport, mam reckoned the original was probably lost when I was about 6, my sister's when she was 2. I looked almost albino while my parents were both dark, very dodgy!

I'm wondering if there's advice on the Irish embassies' website about making sure you have all the documents ready for traveling here. Maybe suggest getting the bloods dropped in at the start of their holiday so they don't have to get a late flight home.

yes , this situation , kinda different to other situations , but maybe similar

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is the kid back then?

Answered already. They sorted out the problem and realised that all was above board. Hindsight now.

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:51PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Bull**** jump there. Do not accuse me of racism please as i'm not a racist.
Says more about you that you have.

Who said anything about racism?
I wasn't implying that at all - so sorry if you took it up that way.
You don't have to be a racist, to not like Roma's as some people just lump them into the same category of people who steal.

Sure the child was white with blue eyes

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 10:53PM

tayto lover wrote: »

If I rang the airport to book a 7 a.m. flight to Madrid and they told me there was no 7 a.m. flight would I be responsible for the mistake if there was?

I really hope that's not how our Gardai work. Not bothering to corroborate information that lead to the removal of a young child from her family. Shoddy police work.

RustyNut · 23-10-2013 10:53PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you have proof of this absence of evidence at the time do you , please share

There was no wrongdoing so therefor there was no proof of any wrongdoing.

Only a baseless complaint, which basic police work, ie checking the records that the parents pointed towards would have dispelled.

Missing the records amounts to incompetence. They were there to be discovered and should have been.

I think the child involved deserved at least the most basic investigation before being separate from their parents.

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 10:53PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

it might turn out that way

but how is that the fault of the 2 attending garda ?
they were obliged to go , they then found some errors in the paper work , they had to act. maybe a family memeber should have gone with her , but if it was a kidnapping case , the adult could have tried to interfere with a witness , so they might not be allowed anyway

they acted in the best interests of the child as they saw it at the time
and i agree

dj jarvis wrote: »

read post 772 , i address that clearly

You don't address the possibility of ensuring the safety of the child by something short of taking it into custody at all in that post (above).

All you do is engage in further baseless speculation.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:53PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Who said anything about racism?

Should the child was white with blue eyes

You accused me. i expect an apology too.

My name is URL · 23-10-2013 10:54PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Answered already. They sorted out the problem and realised that all was above board. Hindsight now.

Fcukin jeniuses they are

Any word on that murdered Garda yet.. or are all resources being pumped into tackling welfare cheats and hysterical media based justice-porn fanatics?

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:55PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You accused me. i expect an apology too.

No I didn't - report my post if you think that

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:55PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I really hope that's not how our Gardai work. Not bothering to corroborate information that lead to the removal of a young child from her family. Shoddy police work.

Would you drive out to the airport and check for yourself?

Fussgangerzone · 23-10-2013 10:55PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i do , thanks

So you understand that in law, we prove that there is evidence, not that there isn't evidence.

In this case, there is no demonstrable evidence. If you feel otherwise, it's up to you to prove it, not me. Ya dig?

the_monkey · 23-10-2013 10:55PM

emo72 wrote: »

for anyone that bothered to watch the bbc documentary about them, what did yous think of the father who was lamenting the fact that he sold his 13 yo daughter for 900 euro, and another wedding was happening where a daughter had been sold for 9000 euro.

i thought he regretted selling his daughter, but no he was more upset that the wedding he was observing that the child went for 9k.

heres the sickening bit. the men at the wedding were overjoyed that the 13 yo bride was discovered to be a virgin

No, But it's a beautiful culture !!

We are RACISTS and Xenophobe's if we criticize this ... Lovely lovely people they are ....

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:56PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Fcukin jeniuses they are

Any word on that murdered Garda yet.. or are all resources being pumped into tackling welfare cheats and hysterical media based justice-porn?

What kind of rubbish are you talking now. Worse than your usual bull.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:56PM

RustyNut wrote: »

There was no wrongdoing so therefor there was no proof of any wrongdoing.

Only a baseless complaint, which basic police work, ie checking the records that the parents pointed towards would have dispelled.

Missing the records amounts to incompetence. They were there to be discovered and should have been.

I think the child involved deserved at least the most basic investigation before being separate from their parents.

you dont know , that at the time , when the documents did not match up , they garda thought that is a wrong doing , possible child trafficking , they had to investigate , they did , and it turns out they were ok , the child was not kidnapped , but either you or me know , so i dont understand how you are so sure no "wrong doing" was seen by the garda

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 10:57PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Would you drive out to the airport and check for yourself?

I'd probably go online personally.

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:57PM

mango salsa wrote: »

More with the hyperbole that there was an attempted escape by the parents!!!

There is no proof of this at all

Are you being serious?

An almost identical case of potential child abduction - a blonde kid with dark hair and dark eyed Roma who can't provide the documents to prove the kid is who they it is.

There was a case there a few years ago a couple asked for themselves and their kids to be fitted for coffins. The Gardaí called to the house and the parents said it was only a joke. The parents killed themselves and the kids as soon as the Gardaí left.
There was another case a few years ago where a guy abducted his daughter and did a runner. When the Gardaí caught up with him he blew her face off with a shotgun and then took his own life.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Gardaí are not going to take a child into care if they suspect a case of child abduction or that a kid could come to harm????

Seriously now?

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:58PM

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

So you understand that in law, we prove that there is evidence, not that there isn't evidence.

In this case, there is no demonstrable evidence. If you feel otherwise, it's up to you to prove it, not me. Ya dig?

documents not matching up at the time is reason enough to think something is not as it should be , she could have been kidnapped until proven otherwise. simple

RustyNut · 23-10-2013 10:58PM

tayto lover wrote: »

If I rang the airport to book a 7 a.m. flight to Madrid and they told me there was no 7 a.m. flight would I be responsible for the mistake if there was?

I might let you off but I would expect a professional investigator to at least double check the website not just take the word of the cleaner that answered the phone.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:59PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'd probably go online personally.

Online or not you would have got the same answer.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:59PM

RustyNut wrote: »

I might let you off but I would expect a professional investigator to at least double check the website not just take the word of the cleaner that answered the phone.

How do you know a cleaner answered the phone?

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 11:00PM

listermint wrote: »

No they couldn't, because this is not how it's done through procedure.

I'm intrigued.
Can you point to the procedure that prevents the authorities from ensuring a child's safety short of protective custody?

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

Comments

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1