Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

RustyNut · 23-10-2013 10:30PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

should have been , but was not , until this anomaly was sorted out , they had no choice - no matter who mistake it was , they could not release the child until everything checked out, it didn't , so they acted

In the absence of any evidence of wrongdoing they took a child from its parents. They had only a baseless complaint when they broke up a family.
They could not have got it more wrong, they did not act in the best intrest of the child in question if they did they would have established the facts before removing them from the family home.

They should never have taken the child without proof of something wrong not the other way round.

This type of intervention is what leads to situations like the Cleveland scandal of the 80's where over 100 kids were wrongly taken into care on baseless suspicions which left people and family's devastated, all on the bases of better safe than sorry.

Fussgangerzone · 23-10-2013 10:30PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

You don't see any reason why in the light of the case in the Greece that neighbors would not be even a teensy weensy little bit suspicious of a gypsy family with a blonde kid?

Have a think again about it would you?

Let's change some nationalities.

If a French couple are found in Scotland with a kid who isn't theirs, it gets taken away. Proper order.

Someone in Italy rings the police and says, "There's these French people beside me, with a kid who I think isn't theirs."

The fact that both couples are French does not make it more likely that the person is right. Anyone who thinks it does, is a failure at logic.

If you can't see that, I wish you all the best in life, and hope you never work in social services.

strandroad · 23-10-2013 10:30PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Do I actually have to spell it out?

Blonde haired blue eyed child is found living with gypsy couple in Greece.
Gypsy couple are not parents.
Child has been abducted by gypsies.

Link? So far they have established a likely illegal adoption. And neglect.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Gardaí are told about another blonde haired blue eyed kid living with gypsy couple in Ireland.
They check it out and couple do not have documents.

False, they did have documents.

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

While they are doing more investigating they decide gypsies could be flight risk and take girl into care to avoid harm coming to child.

Unnecessary to put the child into custody for that. If they believed children are at risk, why not to secure other children too?

And why to link different countries just like that? There have been several cases of Irish fathers killing their children due to mental health issues recently, do you think Australian police should go after Irish children there as they must be at risk too?

emo72 · 23-10-2013 10:31PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Did you read any of the news - they did produce documents.

then why was there an issue?

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:31PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Because they found out that all was above board. Before that they obviously had doubts and felt the child may have been abducted.

So now that they have found out that they are the parents, there is not risk that you talk about before? or are we just saying the risk might be still there but you don't care as they are the parents?

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:33PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Did you read any of the news - they did produce documents.

The garda had doubts about those documents it seems.
If they had then they took the correct action in my opinion.

the_monkey · 23-10-2013 10:33PM

Oh Jaysus, the PC brigade will love this won't they....

yeah, doesn't matter that they are teaching her to pickpocket and steal and beg ...

MOD: User banned

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:34PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So now that they have found out that they are the parents, there is not risk that you talk about before? or are we just saying the risk might be still there but you don't care as they are the parents?

The risk was obviously a flight risk.

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 10:34PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

imagine the outcry if it had been the other way around - left the kid and something happened

Or they could have concluded the investigation, while keeping the child perfectly safe and under supervision but without taking the child into custody.

As has been pointed out to you many times but you just ignore that possibility.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:35PM

[QUOTE=Deleted User;87162037]So you're suggesting that everyone in the country should have their children taken off them as soon as possible until a DNA test can confirm parentage?

i never suggested anything of the sort , or implied or anything of that nature
dont be silly now

The kid is back so they could see no apparent danger to the kid, the only "danger" was a theoretical one which was manufactured by the baseless accusation of wrongdoing. Outcry usually happens in these cases when there are months/years of reports and missed opportunities. It doesn't seem to apply in this case.[/QUOTE]
.

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:35PM

emo72 wrote: »

then why was there an issue?

From Here

The family produced a passport for the girl, but the photo used was of a small child and could not be immediately matched with the girl.

A copy of the birth certificate of the girl that the Roma family based in Tallaght say was wrongly taken from them

The publicly available document appears to back up the assertion by the Roma family that the seven-year-old girl is theirs.

The surname matches the names being given out by the family, as does the exact date and place of birth, the father's name, the mother's name, as well as her name prior to her marriage.

The infant's first name on the birth record differed from the name currently used by the girl. But it was accepted that this was not unusual in families and was not a factor in the investigation.

The address given on the birth cert is different to the Tallaght address where the family are now living, but when the little girl's older sister was asked where they had lived at the time of her birth, she supplied an address that matched the Dublin suburb written on the cert

Now with all this available they still took the child away, because as posters keep saying there was a risk, however now that they are sure the child is in fact theirs - this "risk" seems to have disappeared.

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 10:35PM

the_monkey wrote: »

Oh Jaysus, the PC brigade will love this won't they....

yeah, doesn't matter that they are teaching her to pickpocket and steal and beg ...

Xenophobic claptrap.

wp_rathead · 23-10-2013 10:37PM

the_monkey wrote: »

Oh Jaysus, the PC brigade will love this won't they....

yeah, doesn't matter that they are teaching her to pickpocket and steal and beg ...

Ne-naw-ne-naw-ne-naw

*Jumps around with torches pretending they are sirens*

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:38PM

Phoebas wrote: »

Or they could have concluded the investigation, while keeping the child perfectly safe and under supervision but without taking the child into custody.

As has been pointed out to you many times but you just ignore that possibility.

read post 772 , i address that clearly

listermint · 23-10-2013 10:38PM

Phoebas wrote: »

Or they could have concluded the investigation, while keeping the child perfectly safe and under supervision but without taking the child into custody.

As has been pointed out to you many times but you just ignore that possibility.

No they couldn't, because this is not how it's done through procedure.

Guards and HSE have procedures and babysitting the whole family in the house isn't one.

Or should we perform I suppose reverse racism and do this only when someone is a foreign national just in case any investigation and following of existing procedures is deemed as racism by the media and Internet forums

23-10-2013 10:38PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i never suggested anything of the sort , or implied or anything of that nature
dont be silly now

I asked if all the kids should be taken, you said yes.

Annasopra · 23-10-2013 10:39PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There was a girl abducted by Roma in Greece.

Gardaí are trained to look for patterns.

You don't think that police wouldn't be suspicious and take no chances if they believed a child had been abducted?

Pull the other one!

If a child was proven to be abducted you would probably be screaming at the Gardaí for doing nothing wouldn't you?

You can't have it both ways.

How is one girl in Greece a pattern?!!!!!!!!!

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I asked if all the kids should be taken, you said yes.

in this situation , not all children in Ireland are in this situation , so that would be silly

i agree with the action taken - you dont, lets leave it at that

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:40PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The garda had doubts about those documents it seems.
If they had then they took the correct action in my opinion.

hypothetical situation, there are many irish families who have adopted legally children from abroad, suppose now that family goes to Kerry for a weekend, and the guards get a call from a journalist who says he sees this child with a man and woman that don't look like the parents. Will the guards take the child off them until they produce documents, (assuming the documents would be back in Dublin), or is this different?

My name is URL · 23-10-2013 10:41PM

the_monkey wrote: »

Oh Jaysus, the PC brigade will love this won't they....

yeah, doesn't matter that they are teaching her to pickpocket and steal and beg ...

The 'politically correct' thing right now seems to be that it's no big deal.

Everyone saying otherwise is being called all sorts of names =/

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:42PM

RustyNut wrote: »

In the absence of any evidence of wrongdoing they took a child from its parents. They had only a baseless complaint when they broke up a family.
They could not have got it more wrong, they did not act in the best intrest of the child in question if they did they would have established the facts before removing them from the family home.

They should never have taken the child without proof of something wrong not the other way round.

This type of intervention is what leads to situations like the Cleveland scandal of the 80's where over 100 kids were wrongly taken into care on baseless suspicions which left people and family's devastated, all on the bases of better safe than sorry.

you have proof of this absence of evidence at the time do you , please share

Annasopra · 23-10-2013 10:42PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

And what if the suspects do a runner with the kid in the meantime?

Police work 101 or do you watch any cop shows or what?

You are definitely taking the mickey now.

More with the hyperbole that there was an attempted escape by the parents!!!

There is no proof of this at all

donalh087 · 23-10-2013 10:42PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The risk was obviously a flight risk.

The threat must be "immediate and serious" to the child. A flight risk doesn't count.

There was no history of violence. There was no reason to take this child (these children).

This is a clumsy kneejerk reaction to the Maddy McCann TV programme.

strandroad · 23-10-2013 10:42PM

listermint wrote: »

No they couldn't, because this is not how it's done through procedure.

Link? Because in the HSE article from The Journal linked above it is mentioned that "supervision" is a viable alternative to care orders. This is when a child is supervised without them being removed from home.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:43PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

hypothetical situation, there are many irish families who have adopted legally children from abroad, suppose now that family goes to Kerry for a weekend, and the guards get a call from a journalist who says he sees this child with a man and woman that don't look like the parents. Will the guards take the child off them until they produce documents, (assuming the documents would be back in Dublin), or is this different?

I would presume that every case like that would be taken on its own merits.

emo72 · 23-10-2013 10:43PM

for anyone that bothered to watch the bbc documentary about them, what did yous think of the father who was lamenting the fact that he sold his 13 yo daughter for 900 euro, and another wedding was happening where a daughter had been sold for 9000 euro.

i thought he regretted selling his daughter, but no he was more upset that the wedding he was observing that the child went for 9k.

heres the sickening bit. the men at the wedding were overjoyed that the 13 yo bride was discovered to be a virgin:(

Fussgangerzone · 23-10-2013 10:44PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you have proof of this absence of evidence at the time do you , please share

You don't understand how evidence and proof work do you?

gandalf · 23-10-2013 10:44PM

The real question is will whoever in the HSE who made the decision to take the child from their parents without checking the records properly of the hospital that she was born in face sanction for a pretty major cock-up.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 10:44PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you have proof of this absence of evidence at the time do you , please share

The child has been returned to her parents. Clearly there was no wrong doing.

Fussgangerzone · 23-10-2013 10:45PM

emo72 wrote: »

for anyone that bothered to watch the bbc documentary about them...

Because they're all the same, is that it?

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1