Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

Tombo2001 · 23-10-2013 09:50PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Perhaps the roma community can look at recent events and reflect on why they have such a bad reputation and take steps to do something about it.

Yeah because the Guards don't show up to houses in Killiney and say to the parents, show me the id for that child, cause if you don't have it we're taking the kid........ The Roma really should reflect on why they this has happened to them and not the rest of us, clearly their own fault.

EDIT: in case you didn't get the sarcasm, my view is this is an absolute outrage. Its a disgrace and I hope the family sue the Gardaí and HSE to high heavens and back.

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 09:51PM

Giblet wrote: »

Don't feel the troll people.

And what if they didn't take the kid of the gypsies and they killed the kid instead and it turned out they weren't the real parents?

Get a clue.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 09:51PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

from what i can gather , that would be the heart of it , some one watching sky news , seen Greece and bingo , dropped the jurno a line

what was said to the cops then is anyone's guess , but i really can see them acting on just that , has to be more to it

Clearly there was no more to it. The child has been returned to her family.

Pompey Magnus · 23-10-2013 09:52PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

And what happens if they don't take a report of a suspected child abduction seriously and the kid is murdered?

There have been cases where cops have called to a house and the person who abducted killed the kid and then killed themselves.

This has happened in Ireland before.

Of course if that happened you be having a go at the Gardaí for doing nothing wouldn't you?

You didn't answer my question, if I phone in a call reporting a random couple of having a child I falsely claim to suspect isn't their's should that child, and every other one who receives a similar call, be taken into care until DNA checks can be carried out just in case, or do you have another criteria that the parents could use to prevent this now that you have rejected birth certs and passport?

23-10-2013 09:53PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

And what if they didn't take the kid of the gypsies and they killed the kid instead and it turned out they weren't the real parents?

Get a clue.

And what if they were the parents and killed her? And what if reality is an illusion and we're all just pieces of code in a massive computer program?

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 09:53PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

And what if they didn't take the kid of the gypsies and they killed the kid instead and it turned out they weren't the real parents?

Get a clue.

What happens if I phone in and say my next door neighbour has a child that may not be his - should the guards come and take the child, and then look for the facts, on the off chance that the family could kill the child:rolleyes:

constance tench · 23-10-2013 09:54PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

as i said it was not just them involved - they were provided with info , and acted on it until they done the checking , that is how it works

all the time , with almost every investigation , hold and check

they were doing what they are paid to do until further info came to light,
you are aware that the garda arrest innocent people all the time , and after checking them , let them go

is basic stuff you are arguing against here

Yes, but how is the State protecting the wellbeing of the child without viewing records first?..If it takes more than two hours, so be it!

wicklowstevo · 23-10-2013 09:54PM

the usual story with the police in Ireland,
your damned if you do and your damned if you don't. no matter what the outcome of this case had been

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 09:54PM

Phoebas wrote: »

IF they are going to make a decision to place a child in protective custody based on this information, then Yes, of course they should send someone around to make sure.

or they could just ring the person who does this for a living , anyway , the person at the end of the phone would still be the one checking the records when the cops arrive , same conclusion

im sorry , but slagging them for not going to the hospital is a bit weak

bet when you ring your doctor to get some results you dont then go down and physically check them , just in case the guy at the end of the phone made a mistake. cops worked on the same assumption

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 09:56PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I'd like to think there was more to it but the kid was who they said she was so perhaps not.

Some loon ringing up saying "I seen someone blonde with someone who I don't think could have a blonde kid, IT'S A KIDNAPPING. OMG!" -

That E-mail was sent by the neighbour? to a journalist apparently. He then contacted the garda with its contents and the suspicions and they acted on that.
What happened next or their train of thought is anyone's guess but i'd imagine that they must have been very worried to have taken the child into care. Not an action you would do lightly in my opinion BUT sure none of us know anything except what the media is reporting.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 09:56PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Clearly there was no more to it. The child has been returned to her family.

well , you know as much as i do about that , nothing .
time will tell on this one
im betting the cops dont have a case to answer to , someone else might , but no the attending cops , they acted on the info that was relayed to them.

by law they had to act

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 09:57PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

or they could just ring the person who does this for a living , anyway , the person at the end of the phone would still be the one checking the records when the cops arrive , same conclusion

im sorry , but slagging them for not going to the hospital is a bit weak

bet when you ring your doctor to get some results you dont then go down and physically check them , just in case the guy at the end of the phone made a mistake. cops worked on the same assumption

And why didn't they think to check under her maiden name? A journo did and got the info. Yet the professionals didn't think of that at all. Would you not agree that it was a shoddy and hasty investigation?

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 09:58PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Clearly there was no more to it. The child has been returned to her family.

Hindsight. A wonderful thing on Boards.

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 09:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

False dichotomy. And when we start policing based on hysteria we're pretty ****ed.

If a potentially similar case presents itself they'd want to be f*cking concerned wouldn't they? That's their job isn't it????

Can say that about anyone.

Exactly. That's why they can't take any chances.

You're leaving out the most important thing, what race was he?

Experts told the Gardaí it is highly unlikely that gypsies have blonde haired blue eyed kids. The Greek situation raised the possibility of a repeat in Ireland.
So they took no chances.

Right back at ya.

Stop being a tosser.

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 09:59PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

bet when you ring your doctor to get some results you dont then go down and physically check them , just in case the guy at the end of the phone made a mistake. cops worked on the same assumption

You would if the results are of a serious nature, to make sure that they were right

23-10-2013 09:59PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

by law they had to act

If the family win a lawsuit showing that to be incorrect will you agree with the judge or disagree?

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 10:00PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

well , you know as much as i do about that , nothing .
time will tell on this one
im betting the cops dont have a case to answer to , someone else might , but no the attending cops , they acted on the info that was relayed to them.

by law they had to act

Again only if the child was in immediate and serious risk. There is no mention in the law of a suspicion of a risk being enough to remove a kid. For that the HSE must FIRSTLY make a court application before taking the child.

Giblet · 23-10-2013 10:00PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

And what if they didn't take the kid of the gypsies and they killed the kid instead and it turned out they weren't the real parents?

Get a clue.

And what if they had a hoard of bees which they would have unleashed!! OH NOES!

Do yourself a favour, and stop trying to think.

Roger_007 · 23-10-2013 10:00PM

The most sinister part of this whole saga is that although the family have been here for several years, they obviously have not come to the attention of the social services before, otherwise they would have all the background info on them. Why did nobody report this blond child before now? Simply because there was nothing to report. This all came about as a knee-jerk and over-the-top reaction to the Greek case.

P.S. I would like to read the note to explain her absence this kid brings into her school when she goes back!

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:01PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

What happens if I phone in and say my next door neighbour has a child that may not be his - should the guards come and take the child, and then look for the facts, on the off chance that the family could kill the child:rolleyes:

If someone calls the Gardaí with a complaint or suspicion of a crime they have to check it out.

What if next weekend someone calls the Gardaí claiming they heard gunshots and the Gardaí laugh and say its only fireworks and it turns out someone was actually shot dead?

The Gardaí have to follow up calls about a suspected crime.

End of story.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:01PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

And why didn't they think to check under her maiden name? A journo did and got the info. Yet the professionals didn't think of that at all. Would you not agree that it was a shoddy and hasty investigation?

it might turn out that way

but how is that the fault of the 2 attending garda ?
they were obliged to go , they then found some errors in the paper work , they had to act. maybe a family memeber should have gone with her , but if it was a kidnapping case , the adult could have tried to interfere with a witness , so they might not be allowed anyway

they acted in the best interests of the child as they saw it at the time
and i agree

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 10:01PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

or they could just ring the person who does this for a living , anyway , the person at the end of the phone would still be the one checking the records when the cops arrive , same conclusion

im sorry , but slagging them for not going to the hospital is a bit weak

bet when you ring your doctor to get some results you dont then go down and physically check them , just in case the guy at the end of the phone made a mistake. cops worked on the same assumption

If the Garda are making a decision to take a child into protective custody on the basis of checking a handful of records then they need to be satisfied that the check is done correctly.
There's no point in trying to deflect this onto some administrator.

RustyNut · 23-10-2013 10:01PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

missing the point TOTALLY !!!

the cops did not care what color the hair was , that was the assumption of a member of the public facebooking a jurno,
you see once the complaint was made , they had to act , regardless of hair color and ethnicity

when they arrived on site ,the family , at the time could not prove the providence of this child , so the cops were left with NO option until it could be proven that the child was not kidnapped - and this they did 2 days later

its as simple as that - twist the truth and bend the logic all you want , but that is the cold hard fact of the matter.

they had no option

I think you are the one missing the point here

A complaint was made and the Garda have an obligation to invistigate and establish the facts. When they called to see the family of the child, the parents produced a birth cert and passport for the "suspicious" child. The evidence was there in the hospital records and should have been descovered

Then in the complete absence of evidence that the child is anything other than it appears to be or is in any danger they take the child from its parents and cause god knows what trauma to both the child, parents and siblings.

The best interests of this child were not best served by the system. It appears to me that the system was more interested in protecting itself than doing everything possible to protect the child.

Giblet · 23-10-2013 10:02PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The Gardaí have to follow up calls about a suspected crime.

End of story.

Yes, but they need to have some evidence beyond a good ol' guess.

23-10-2013 10:02PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

If a potentially similar case presents itself they'd want to be f*cking concerned wouldn't they? That's their job isn't it????

Except it wasn't a similar case.

Exactly. That's why they can't take any chances.

Have you ever seen the episode of South Park when all the adults leave because of a news report that kids' own parents are the biggest danger to the kids? It's a nice bit of satire on what would happen if people let that idea apply where it doesn't.

Experts told the Gardaí it is highly unlikely that gypsies have blonde haired blue eyed kids. The Greek situation raised the possibility of a repeat in Ireland.
So they took no chances.

I really would like to meet these experts sometime. No-one along the chain of action apparently has read a popular science article on genetics in entire their lives.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:03PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Again only if the child was in immediate and serious risk. There is no mention in the law of a suspicion of a risk being enough to remove a kid. For that the HSE must FIRSTLY make a court application before taking the child.

but the HSE were involved , so its not just on the word of the cops , they must also had a fear , as did the judge that must have been involved to grant the order

they all must have seen something to warrant this action

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:03PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Again only if the child was in immediate and serious risk. There is no mention in the law of a suspicion of a risk being enough to remove a kid. For that the HSE must FIRSTLY make a court application before taking the child.

Do you think the child in Greece was at risk?
I don't think the HSE have to wait for a court order they seem to have the power to take the child and then apply if they feel the child is at risk.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:05PM

RustyNut wrote: »

I think you are the one missing the point here

A complaint was made and the Garda have an obligation to invistigate and establish the facts. When they called to see the family of the child, the parents produced a birth cert and passport for the "suspicious" child. The evidence was there in the hospital records and should have been descovered

Then in the complete absence of evidence that the child is anything other than it appears to be or is in any danger they take the child from its parents and cause god knows what trauma to both the child, parents and siblings.

The best interests of this child were not best served by the system. It appears to me that the system was more interested in protecting itself than doing everything possible to protect the child.

should have been , but was not , until this anomaly was sorted out , they had no choice - no matter who mistake it was , they could not release the child until everything checked out, it didn't , so they acted

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:06PM

Giblet wrote: »

And what if they had a hoard of bees which they would have unleashed!! OH NOES!

Do yourself a favour, and stop trying to think.

Seriously now? You are telling me that after heavily publicized case in Greece which was a genuine case of child abduction by gypsies that the Gardaí are not going to hop to it and check out gypsies with a blonde kid in Ireland?
Better safe than sorry - take the kid from the family and make sure it is safe before they can do a runner while the facts are checked out.

Are you seriously tell me you don't see why the Gardaí did what they did?

Are you having me on or what?

Ridiculous.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:07PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

The most sinister part of this whole saga is that although the family have been here for several years, they obviously have not come to the attention of the social services before, otherwise they would have all the background info on them. Why did nobody report this blond child before now? Simply because there was nothing to report. This all came about as a knee-jerk and over-the-top reaction to the Greek case.

P.S. I would like to read the note to explain her absence this kid brings into her school when she goes back!

According to the News the kid was in school today.

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1