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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Comments

  • #632
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    What serious and immediate danger was the child in?

    no idea , but the cops must have reason to think they were a flight risk

    how do you know they were not going to

    i love all this second guessing the cops on the scene - you should all join up when they re open templemore.


  • #633
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    says you , you are trained in what may i ask ?

    Spotting Kneejerk reactionary measures that are not needed and could have been done differently under different legislationary


  • #634
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    mhge wrote: »
    They still can, but it will be much less frequent. Recessive/dominant genes are not black & white like that. I don't think there's a combination that can be absolutely eliminated, some are just very rare. Which only shows how silly it is to base such actions on one's colouring only.

    before the garda attended site they rang medical professionals to ask that very question about a blond child coming from a roma family , they were told very un likely

    that would ring an alarm bell straight away - they were being prudent , nothing more


  • #635
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Spotting Kneejerk reactionary measures that are not needed and could have been done differently under different legislationary

    cool , good money i would say , im am aslo getting you have a degree in dodging the question , your not a politician by any chance are you ?;)


  • #636
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,304 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    can't think how anyone in authority thought it was a good idea to just take the child away from it's home.
    based on the so-called professionalism of some of the social workers involved in child abuse cases in this country in the past few years, i wonder do they just prefer this hysteria and seeing to be 'doing something'.
    have no faith whatsoever in the hse.

    also not every child resembles their family. are they going to be taken into care after being reported by misguided members of the public.


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  • #637
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    no idea , but the cops must have reason to think they were a flight risk

    how do you know they were not going to

    i love all this second guessing the cops on the scene - you should all join up when they re open templemore.
    We seldom agree but today we do.
    When all is said and done the Gardai erred on the side of caution. That was the best thing to do when kids are involved.


  • #638
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,585 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    no idea , but the cops must have reason to think they were a flight risk

    how do you know they were not going to

    i love all this second guessing the cops on the scene - you should all join up when they re open templemore.

    Stop being such an ass. We're all basing opinion on what is known right now.

    You're in about as good a position to defend it all as anyone else is to question what happened.


  • #639
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,113 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    can't think how anyone in authority thought it was a good idea to just take the child away from it's home.
    based on the so-called professionalism of some of the social workers involved in child abuse cases in this country in the past few years, i wonder do they just prefer this hysteria and seeing to be 'doing something'.
    have no faith whatsoever in the hse.

    also not every child resembles their family. are they going to be taken into care after being reported by misguided members of the public.
    and neither child would have been taken if the Greece incident hadn't happened :)


  • #640
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    no idea , but the cops must have reason to think they were a flight risk

    how do you know they were not going to

    i love all this second guessing the cops on the scene - you should all join up when they re open templemore.

    If she was in serious and immediate risk to the point that she HAD to be removed after just a 2 hour investigation, why has she been returned to her parents? How has the serious and immediate risk just gone away now?


  • #641
    omega man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,204 ✭✭✭omega man


    Hitchens wrote: »
    so, two cock-ups in such a short space of time, oh dear oh dear :eek:

    So it's a cock up here but in Greece the cops are heros because they basically made the same call if I'm not mistaken?


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  • #642
    5littleangels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭5littleangels


    There is no way that taking a 7 year old child away from her parents in that situation was the right thing to do. If they felt it was so important / urgent / such a huge risk they could have taken the child and one of her parents and facilitated that type of care arrangement until the dna test was done (in a residential /hotel / b&b / private hospital room type of arrangement) I can think of many ways that they could have gone about this that would have not been as traumatic as what they did to this family and this little girl.


  • #643
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,113 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    omega man wrote: »
    So it's a cock up here but in Greece the cops are heros because they basically made the same call if I'm not mistaken?
    well, we really don't know the exact circumstances in the Greece one, in fairness


  • #644
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    REAL easy to say after the fact

    Not at all. Two hours and a cursory check of documents is insufficient grounds to go seizing kids.


  • #645
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    5littleangels wrote: »
    There is no way that taking a 7 year old child away from her parents in that situation was the right thing to do. If they felt it was so important / urgent / such a huge risk they could have taken the child and one of her parents and facilitated that type of care arrangement until the dna test was done (in a residential /hotel / b&b / private hospital room type of arrangement) I can thing of many ways that they could have gone about this that would have not been as traumatic as what they did to this family and this little girl.
    +1
    This kind of arrangement seems to beyond the imagination of some of the posters here.


  • #646
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    before the garda attended site they rang medical professionals to ask that very question about a blond child coming from a roma family , they were told very un likely

    that would ring an alarm bell straight away - they were being prudent , nothing more

    See, and in two unrelated cases two blond children were indeed Roma. Perhaps the professionals should go back to school.
    Or perhaps they should look closer at some Roma people when they see them - you can see that they like black hair indeed but some have it dyed from fairer shades.


  • #647
    omega man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,204 ✭✭✭omega man


    Hitchens wrote: »
    well we really don't know the exact circumstances, in fairness

    True. but in defence of our system that works both ways.


  • #648
    petrolcan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    before the garda attended site they rang medical professionals to ask that very question about a blond child coming from a roma family , they were told very un likely

    that would ring an alarm bell straight away - they were being prudent , nothing more

    Personally I think the Garda were too scared to do nothing.


  • #649
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,113 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    omega man wrote: »
    True. but in defence of our system that works both ways.

    fair enough, but it seems to have been handled badly here


  • #650
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    omega man wrote: »
    So it's a cock up here but in Greece the cops are heros because they basically made the same call if I'm not mistaken?

    The girl in Greece was found because her parents committed document fraud, she was begging and they all lived in a filthy camp.
    Not (just) because she was blond.


  • #651
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,544 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    they got in contact with the hospital, with the details they were provided with,
    the HOSPITAL told them no match was made

    how is that the cops fault ?

    They should have got a list if every birth that day, in the hospital. When dealing with those of foreign origin there's plenty of room for error with regards names etc.

    The indo was ae to verify names. Also they could have followed up on the passport number


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  • #652
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not at all. Two hours and a cursory check of documents is insufficient grounds to go seizing white kids.

    FYP.


  • #653
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,113 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    ted1 wrote: »
    They should have got a list if every birth that day, in the hospital. When dealing with those of foreign origin there's plenty of room for error with regards names etc.

    The indo was ae to verify names. Also they could have followed up on the passport number
    and as another poster said, they could have arranged for the kids to be accompanied by their mums until the facts emerged


  • #654
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    If she was in serious and immediate risk to the point that she HAD to be removed after just a 2 hour investigation, why has she been returned to her parents? How has the serious and immediate risk just gone away now?

    well they are hardly a flight risk with their own child , now it has been proven that the child is theirs.

    the garda did not know that at the time , did they.

    they done the right thing - its best practice in child protection
    it might be heavy handed , but its been said many times , by many posters , better to be wrong than have a kidnapped kid be taken away from under you nose

    how some are not getting this is truly baffling :confused:


  • #655
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,127 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    To those of you who think this child was taken because her family are Roma a quick google shows the extent of Care Orders in one year, 2011.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/almost-2300-children-taken-into-care-during-2011-524060-Jul2012/


  • #656
    Balaclava1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Balaclava1991


    Embarrassing incident but an honest mistake.
    The Minister of Justice Alan Shatter and the Garda Commissioner will probably issue an apology.
    I bet Ryan Tubridy will bring the Roma gypsies onto The Late Late Show and they can tell their story.
    I have a feeling that FF, SF, rebel Labour TDs, Independents and so on will jump on this.
    The human rights lawyers are licking their lips right now.
    The rent a crowd PC Brigade mob will throw their hysterical shapes on command.
    The poor Gardaí who did their duty will catch all the flak and become scapegoats.
    There will probably be some inquiry with bells and whistles like the Abbeylara investigation.

    This is going to create an incredible stink.


  • #657
    omega man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,204 ✭✭✭omega man


    mhge wrote: »
    The girl in Greece was found because her parents committed document fraud, she was begging and they all lived in a filthy camp.
    Not (just) because she was blond.

    I doubt any of us here know all the facts on either the Greek or irish cases.


  • #658
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,113 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    omega man wrote: »
    I doubt any of us here know all the facts on either the Greek or irish cases.
    yes, I would agree with that, but the children must have been frightened, so leave a family member with them at least, and maybe they did for all we know


  • #659
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    tayto lover wrote: »
    To those of you who think this child was taken because her family are Roma a quick google shows the extent of Care Orders in one year, 2011.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/almost-2300-children-taken-into-care-during-2011-524060-Jul2012/

    But how many due to suspected abduction by parents?


  • #660
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    mhge wrote: »
    See, and in two unrelated cases two blond children were indeed Roma. Perhaps the professionals should go back to school.
    Or perhaps they should look closer at some Roma people when they see them - you can see that they like black hair indeed but some have it dyed from fairer shades.

    the cops were acting on info provided , provided by the person reporting , by the medical professionals , and the staff at the hospital , should they have just ignored all this , along with the family at the time could not stand over their claims ??

    all this points toward intervention - they done the right thing at the time with the info provided. they returned the child after all the checks proved the family s story , basic police procedure world wide.


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  • #661
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    tayto lover wrote: »
    To those of you who think this child was taken because her family are Roma a quick google shows the extent of Care Orders in one year, 2011.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/almost-2300-children-taken-into-care-during-2011-524060-Jul2012/

    sssshhhhhh , dont post that - it will sink most peoples argument that they were only picking on the roma , sure white irish kids never get taken into care ;)


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