Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

Balaclava1991

namloc1980 wrote: »

Only if the child is in serious and immediate danger. Who knew that having different color hair and eyes to your family was such a major danger?

If they suspect the child is in the company of people who are not their parents and they have been abducted then they have to assume the worst don't they?

You must be taking the mickey if you think the Gardaí are not going to take an incident like this serious.

EmptyTree

constance tench wrote: »

It would be expected that they actually visit the hospital to view the records though, wouldn't it?

They did contact the hosiptal, no records were found.

Roger_007

Gardai are claiming that they missed the record of the birth because the mother had been admitted to the Hospital under her maiden name.:eek:
Brilliant detective work there.:rolleyes:

AtomicHorror

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There was a girl abducted by Roma in Greece.

Gardaí are trained to look for patterns.

A single data point can't by definition be a pattern and if the Gardai are trained in the statistical analysis needed to detect these kinds of patterns, that training failed. I'm not saying there was no rationale to any of this and I can't say whether it was justified, but this suggestion of yours is not a good argument.

strandroad

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

There was a girl abducted by Roma in Greece.

Gardaí are trained to look for patterns.

You don't think that police wouldn't be suspicious and take no chances if they believed a child had been abducted?

Pull the other one!

If a child was proven to be abducted you would probably be screaming at the Gardaí for doing nothing wouldn't you?

You can't have it both ways.

Who said nothing and taking the child into custody are the only two options available? Strawman alert.

And what about Greece and patterns - there are children being adopted illegally on other continents every day, is anyone going to pull up middle class families on that if they happen to have adopted from the same country? Make them prove that they are legit, with the child in custody? Yeah right. Let's just go for the easy target.

Curly Judge

darkpagandeath wrote: »

and it's been pointed out that they used the legislation in a way it was not intended there was no immediate danger to the child there were other avenues. there were other children at the 1st house why were they not in danger ?

Is kidnapping or abduction not child endangerment?

dj jarvis

5littleangels wrote: »

So if your child was taken away under these circumstances you would think that it was ok? My daughter would be beyond terrified, as a mother I would be devastated. My child being taken away from me is the absolute worst thing I can imagine, being cared for by strangers. A child of this age has no idea that what is happening is "in their best interest". She is not going to just forget that this happened to her this is a hugely traumatic event that could haunt her for the rest of her life. I never ever write on these boards under things like this however I just feel horrified that anyone can think this is an acceptable thing to do. I have worked with children taken into care in Ireland it is not a bed of roses being in the care of the state.

ah would you stop with the heart string for a sec , please
i would not , i would be inconsolable , but on the flip side , i can prove that i am my childrens father in seconds , i have birth certs , passports , photos ect ect , so it would never come to them being taken in the first place

sentimental clap trap trying to hide the fact that the cops were right.

if it was a kidnapped child , what about the feelings of the family of that child ,
do they not also have the right to have their disappearance fully investigated ,
as i have said before , in a case like this , the parents feelings are secondary to the child's safety - as it should be

crocodile tears are easy to produce

Balaclava1991

constance tench wrote: »

It would be expected that they actually visit the hospital to view the records though, wouldn't it?

And what if the suspects do a runner with the kid in the meantime?

Police work 101 or do you watch any cop shows or what?

You are definitely taking the mickey now.

Padraig Mor

mhge wrote: »

On the basis that they look different to their parents?

Why have so many people stated this? It's not correct. The child was removed because the parents could not prove to the Gardaí's satisfaction that it was their child. A search of hospital records using the information provided by the parents seemed not back up their story. They were also apparently advised by experts that it was unlikely that two Roma would have a blonde, blue eyed child. They may also have been given cause for concern by any criminal record that the parents may have had. I don't say how what they did was anything but prudent.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

A question to those defending the Gardai without question and insisting that procedures were followed, do any of you honestly believe that things would have unfolded as they did if not for the case in Greece?

There is nobody defending anyone BUT some of us seem to understand the complicities of the case they were dealing with. If I thought they were wrong I would say it.

darkpagandeath

Roger_007 wrote: »

Gardai are claiming that they missed the record of the birth because the mother had been admitted to the Hospital under her maiden name.:eek:
Brilliant detective work there.:rolleyes:

lets see all the backtracking now that the garda have proven themselves incompetent. Any garda would or should check for this

grey_so_what

tayto lover wrote: »

If you didn't jump to your conclusions you would know that there was more to it than that.
The parents couldn't prove that the child was theirs at the time and wrong information was supplied from the Coome hospital it seems.

I think the Hospital involved should have answers to questions tayto......If all was as the parents said, the records should have stopped this going any further.

Though it's easy to say that, we are only speculating as to what equerries were actually made.

dj jarvis

Roger_007 wrote: »

Gardai are claiming that they missed the record of the birth because the mother had been admitted to the Hospital under her maiden name.:eek:
Brilliant detective work there.:rolleyes:

yea you are right - dopes

but until all the paper worked checked out , no matter whos mistake it was , they had to do what they done

Balaclava1991

dj jarvis wrote: »

ah would you stop with the heart string for a sec , please
i would not , i would be inconsolable , but on the flip side , i can prove that i am my childrens father in seconds , i have birth certs , passports , photos ect ect , so it would never come to them being taken in the first place

sentimental clap trap trying to hide the fact that the cops were right.

if it was a kidnapped child , what about the feelings of the family of that child ,
do they not also have the right to have their disappearance fully investigated ,
as i have said before , in a case like this , the parents feelings are secondary to the child's safety - as it should be

crocodile tears are easy to produce

It's just sh*t stirring nonsense.

Someone would have to a total ape to not see that the Gardaí were right.

Ridiculous that people are having a go at the Gardaí over this when they would be having a go at them if it turned out the kids were actually abducted.

Unreal.

namloc1980

EmptyTree wrote: »

They did contact the hosiptal, no records were found.

Yet a journo found the birth record on the public birth register. Who was in charge, Inspector Clouseau?

strandroad

tayto lover wrote: »

If you didn't jump to your conclusions you would know that there was more to it than that.
The parents couldn't prove that the child was theirs at the time and wrong information was supplied from the Coome hospital it seems.

The parents did nothing wrong here, they were correct to a t.

All this mess comes from someone else.

Balaclava1991

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Give me a break.

Roma gypsies in Greece have been caught red handed with blonde haired blue eyed child that isn't theirs.

The Gardaí suspected two blonde haired children in two separate Roma families were also victims of abduction or trafficking when initially the families could not prove they were who they said they were.

Of course the Gardaí were going to suspect the worst and put the children in care until they could clear matters up.

That's only basic common sense.

I think you know that already and you have some sort of agenda you are pushing.

You're overreaction is just ludicrous now. Quit while you are ahead.:rolleyes:

I don't think that means what you think it means.

namloc1980

dj jarvis wrote: »

ah would you stop with the heart string for a sec , please
i would not , i would be inconsolable , but on the flip side , i can prove that i am my childrens father in seconds , i have birth certs , passports , photos ect ect , so it would never come to them being taken in the first place

sentimental clap trap trying to hide the fact that the cops were right.

if it was a kidnapped child , what about the feelings of the family of that child ,
do they not also have the right to have their disappearance fully investigated ,
as i have said before , in a case like this , the parents feelings are secondary to the child's safety - as it should be

crocodile tears are easy to produce

This family produced pictures, passport and birth cert, yet the kid was still taken.

Balaclava1991

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Why have so many people stated this? It's not correct. The child was removed because the parents could not prove to the Gardaí's satisfaction that it was their child. A search of hospital records using the information provided by the parents seemed not back up their story. They were also apparently advised by experts that it was unlikely that two Roma would have a blonde, blue eyed child. They may also have been given cause for concern by any criminal record that the parents may have had. I don't say how what they did was anything but prudent.

Spot on!

I suspect some of the people having a go at the Gardaí over this have some political agenda.

They probably voted for the Children's Rights Referendum to give the state the powers to intervene in these very same types of suspected cases and now they are having a go at the state and the Gardaí for doing the very thing they voted for.

Total joke!

oceanman

that poor little child must have been totally terrified, what an ordeal to put through at that young age. at least now she is back now where she belongs..

dj jarvis

mhge wrote: »

The parents did nothing wrong here, they were correct to a t.

All this mess comes from someone else.

i totally agree with you on that point , 100%
but its not really the cops fault either

strandroad

Curly Judge wrote: »

Is kidnapping or abduction not child endangerment?

How do you know other children were not abducted also? Because they were not blond?
Both children taken had siblings present. Why not to test and "protect" them too?

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

This family produced pictures, passport and birth cert, yet the kid was still taken.

Yeah but it was a picture of the kid when she was a baby, everyone knows ya have to get a new passport photo every year updated onto the holograph. Or something.

darkpagandeath

dj jarvis wrote: »

i totally agree with you on that point , 100%
but its not really the cops fault either

For not thinking or checking the mother had a maiden name ?

dj jarvis

namloc1980 wrote: »

This family produced pictures, passport and birth cert, yet the kid was still taken.

they did not tally with the info the cops had at the time
does not matter if the cops were wrong at the time , and i belive they were not , they could not leave the kids there until it was proven one way or the other

the real question that should be asked is why the member of the public went to a juro first , and not the cops , if they have , we would not known about this

and the jurno could have sat on the story until it played out , but no , he wanted the front page

its far from the cops mistake

strandroad

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Why have so many people stated this? It's not correct. The child was removed because the parents could not prove to the Gardaí's satisfaction that it was their child.

If you look at it now the parents did nothing wrong at all. They cooperated, provided documents and submitted blood for testing ASAP. Their only fault was looking different.

Pompey Magnus

Roger_007 wrote: »

Gardai are claiming that they missed the record of the birth because the mother had been admitted to the Hospital under her maiden name.:eek:
Brilliant detective work there.:rolleyes:

There are an average of 13 girls born in the Coome on a particular day, can you imagine how many valuable minutes of Garda work it would take to follow up on all of them?

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but it was a picture of the kid when she was a baby, everyone knows ya have to get a new passport photo every year updated onto the holograph. Or something.

Wow really... you HAVE to get a new passport photo every year??? You totally made that up didn't you?

Balaclava1991

namloc1980 wrote: »

This family produced pictures, passport and birth cert, yet the kid was still taken.

Pictures, passports and birth cert can be faked and while the Gardaí have their backs turned submitting them to a check to make sure they aren't fake the parents could have done a runner with the kid.

Do you not remember that case a few years ago where a couple turned up at a funeral home to be measured for coffins and then the parents topped themselves and their kids?

There was a huge kick up about why didn't the HSE and the Gardaí intervene wasn't there?

There was Children's Rights Referendum and now Gardaí have the power to intervene to remove kids from families where they suspect they are in danger.

So the Gardaí were doing their job.

Criticizing the Gardaí for doing their job is a joke.

dj jarvis

darkpagandeath wrote: »

For not thinking or checking the mother had a maiden name ?

was not just the cops , the HSE , a judge and the hospital were complicit in this
and you are assuming they did not check it but were told it did not match by the hospital ,m or the hse or the judge

but feel free to kick the cops