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Bloody Sunday troops face murder arrests 41 years after massacre

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Comments

  • #62
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,008 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Did the British pre-plan the massacre?
    i wouldn't put it past them
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Did the British Cabinet instruct General Ford to put manners on young republicans in Derry who were rioting day and day out with the security forces?
    yes, wouldn't put that past them either.
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Was the scoop up operation really just a cover for troops to shoot dead a few rioters and run them off the streets with their tails between their legs?
    yes
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    was it the result of a bloodthirsty Lance Corporal F and a handful of men from Mortar Platoon from Support Company, 1 Para deciding to have some fun and get some kills?
    yes
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Or was it the actions of frightened young men who took no chances and wanted to get home in one piece once their tour was over?
    no
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    There is no way of answering any of these questions and therefore there is no way you can prove that the intention of the paras that day was to deliberately murder people.
    the fact they lied is enough, sadly not for a court and a conviction though
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Many of the victims were killed by bullets which passed right through them and their precise locations and the exact trajectories of fatal shots were never properly established and many of the fatal bullets were never recovered and could not matched to individual soldiers rifles.
    funny that, isn't it
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    So we don't actually know which soldiers killed some of them victims.
    oh i'd say it is known but covered up

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #63
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, they were trigger happy vermin who wanted to murder civilians for the hell of it, they enjoyed every second and every bit of blood spilled, of course they will get away with it, the vermin that is the british army always do, hopefully when these murdering vermin say ta ta to this world it will be painful and they see and hear the ghosts of all that happened that day

    But that's not the kind of argument that is going to get anyone near a courtroom, let alone convicted


  • #64
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    But that's not the kind of argument that is going to get anyone near a courtroom, let alone convicted

    People in the PIRA served lengthy sentences on 'conspiracy to commit' charges.

    We couldn't possibly expect the brand protecting British and reality denying Unionists to demand that British Soldiers be held to the same judicial standards could we?

    Leaving aside collusion, BA soldiers killed over 150 unarmed civilians (many of them children) in the north. How many British Soldiers were convicted of murder and spent time in jail for their deeds?


  • #65
    joe swanson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    People in the PIRA served lengthy sentences on 'conspiracy to commit' charges.

    We couldn't possibly expect the brand protecting British and reality denying Unionists to demand that British Soldiers be held to the same judicial standards could we?

    Leaving aside collusion, BA soldiers killed over 150 unarmed civilians (many of them children) in the north. How many British Soldiers were convicted of murder and spent time in jail for their deeds?

    How many ira scumbags got away with murder? Warrington etc.....

    You can keep up the whataboutery all day. It gets you nowhere. Yes people should be punished for bloody sunday but you cant pick and choose which murders are more important depending on your political views.


  • #66
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    joe swanson wrote: »
    How many ira scumbags got away with murder? .... You can keep up the whataboutery all day.

    *sigh*


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  • #67
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, they were trigger happy vermin who wanted to murder civilians for the hell of it, they enjoyed every second and every bit of blood spilled, of course they will get away with it, the vermin that is the british army always do, hopefully when these murdering vermin say ta ta to this world it will be painful and they see and hear the ghosts of all that happened that day

    Aaaand breath in....


  • #68
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    If you want to lock them up, then lock ALL of them up. Including PIRA terrorists. If Gerry Adams doesn't go to prison, none of these murderers on bloody Sunday will.

    It might seem unfair to some, but members of the security forces and Army should be held to a higher standard than IRA members.

    The best way I can put it was how an anonymous RUC detective put it during the Stalker investigation into shoot to kill, he was giving Stalker information at great personal risk to himself and family, but his point was "once we stoop down to the terrorists level, we've lost, we are actually worse than them."

    I would agree with you to a certain extent on the likes of Adams and McGuinness, the truth and reconciliation body that they espouse would be pretty useless without evidence from them and other high up Republicans.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #69
    joe swanson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    *sigh*

    Oh i forgot we are only supposed to feel sorry for victims of the big bad brits. We're told to move on when anyone brings up the irish, british, protestant and catholic people murdered by ira scum. Whoops.


  • #70
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,008 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Oh i forgot we are only supposed to feel sorry for victims of the big bad brits. We're told to move on when anyone brings up the irish, british, protestant and catholic people murdered by ira scum. Whoops.
    if your referring to civilians then fine, if your talking about BA vermin, then the IRA were not scum for disposing of them as they went out of their way to deliberately murder civilians for their own pleasure, had the british government listened to the civil rights movement and made northern ireland a fair and equal state for all then the troubles wouldn't have happened, yes their might have been a little bit of dissident activity but no more then the little that is supposibly happening now, it was all the british governments fault for not listening to the people and making northern ireland a fair and equal state for all, and it was the fault of the BA for deliberately murdering civilians and covering it up

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #71
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Oh i forgot we are only supposed to feel sorry for victims of the big bad brits. We're told to move on when anyone brings up the irish, british, protestant and catholic people murdered by ira scum. Whoops.

    when does anyone ever feel sorry for the victims of the big bad brits? anytime the topic is brought up, people like you come on and say oh but look who the ira killed, its not them it us, and bash republicanism some more. anytime a victim of irish violence is brought up, i dont see anyone chiming in and saying look who the brits killed. this is a thread about bloody sunday, yet your coming on and saying look what republicans did.... now thats called whataboutery.

    as has been said countless times, the ira wernt a state army. the british army were, and are expected to hold higher standards and to protect the people they shot. not to mention in the context of when it took place, republican violence was non existent, people were campaigning for civil rights peacefully. this started the troubles. they should be in even more trouble for instigating 30 years of violence


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  • #72
    joe swanson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    end of the road wrote: »
    if your referring to civilians then fine, if your talking about BA vermin, then the IRA were not scum for disposing of them as they went out of their way to deliberately murder civilians for their own pleasure, had the british government listened to the civil rights movement and made northern ireland a fair and equal state for all then the troubles wouldn't have happened, yes their might have been a little bit of dissident activity but no more then the little that is supposibly happening now, it was all the british governments fault for not listening to the people and making northern ireland a fair and equal state for all, and it was the fault of the BA for deliberately murdering civilians and covering it up

    The ira were/are scum. The end. Anyone who justifies murder is no matter what "side" or religion or allegiance. These one sided whataboutery arguments get people nowhere. Scum is scum irrespwctive of who is getting murdered. I


  • #73
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    joe swanson wrote: »
    The ira were/are scum. The end. Anyone who justifies murder is no matter what "side" or religion or allegiance. These one sided whataboutery arguments get people nowhere. Scum is scum irrespwctive of who is getting murdered. I

    one sided arguements? your one to talk. i notice you havnt mentioned how the british army were/are scum


  • #74
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    end of the road wrote: »
    if your referring to civilians then fine, if your talking about BA vermin, then the IRA were not scum for disposing of them as they went out of their way to deliberately murder civilians for their own pleasure, had the british government listened to the civil rights movement and made northern ireland a fair and equal state for all then the troubles wouldn't have happened, yes their might have been a little bit of dissident activity but no more then the little that is supposibly happening now, it was all the british governments fault for not listening to the people and making northern ireland a fair and equal state for all, and it was the fault of the BA for deliberately murdering civilians and covering it up

    The British Government did put pressure on Stormont to address civil rights, indeed most of the CRA aims had been addressed by 1973, the problem was making law a reality, it takes years to change attitudes, the stroke of a pen to change a law.

    The other side is the IRA ambushed the CRA agenda and made it into a United Ireland agenda, and Bloody Sunday was a PR godsend for them.

    I do think moderate Unionists now accept how bad Bloody Sunday was, the problem was it took decades and an inquiry to get them to see it. The problem with the British Government was they let a sectarian statelet develop under their watch and did nothing about it, not until it was too late.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #75
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    end of the road wrote: »
    i don't buy it, any of it, they weren't "frightened" they knew exactly what they were doing and enjoyed every minute and every murder

    You have solid evidence of this or is this just your emotions running over?
    guttenberg wrote: »
    To be fair, if they can still hunt down former members of Nazi prison camps and get convictions, it's surely possible to garner enough evidence to support some level of a murder conviction?

    Yup and they could also track down IRA, INLA, who killed innocent people....they won't though.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    Did the British pre-plan the massacre?

    i wouldn't put it past them

    So no evidence just conjecture

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    Did the British Cabinet instruct General Ford to put manners on young republicans in Derry who were rioting day and day out with the security forces?

    yes, wouldn't put that past them either.

    So no evidence just conjecture

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    Was the scoop up operation really just a cover for troops to shoot dead a few rioters and run them off the streets with their tails between their legs?

    yes

    Oh cool a straight forward answer this time.....link to the evidence please?
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    was it the result of a bloodthirsty Lance Corporal F and a handful of men from Mortar Platoon from Support Company, 1 Para deciding to have some fun and get some kills?

    yes

    Oh cool a straight forward answer this time.....link to the evidence please?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    Or was it the actions of frightened young men who took no chances and wanted to get home in one piece once their tour was over?

    no

    Erm......evidence?


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    There is no way of answering any of these questions and therefore there is no way you can prove that the intention of the paras that day was to deliberately murder people.

    the fact they lied is enough, sadly not for a court and a conviction though

    So again you are only going on conjecture.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    Many of the victims were killed by bullets which passed right through them and their precise locations and the exact trajectories of fatal shots were never properly established and many of the fatal bullets were never recovered and could not matched to individual soldiers rifles.

    funny that, isn't it

    Not really.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balaclava1991 View Post
    So we don't actually know which soldiers killed some of them victims.

    oh i'd say it is known but covered up

    Again with the guesswork hearsay and conjecture.
    end of the road wrote: »
    no, they were trigger happy vermin who wanted to murder civilians for the hell of it, they enjoyed every second and every bit of blood spilled, of course they will get away with it, the vermin that is the british army always do, hopefully when these murdering vermin say ta ta to this world it will be painful and they see and hear the ghosts of all that happened that day

    Again you are letting your emotions type the words for you.....breath.

    You can call them trigger happy all day every day but unless you have evidence all you are coming across is an overemotional crybaby.
    end of the road wrote: »
    if your referring to civilians then fine, if your talking about BA vermin, then the IRA were not scum for disposing of them as they went out of their way to deliberately murder civilians for their own pleasure, had the british government listened to the civil rights movement and made northern ireland a fair and equal state for all then the troubles wouldn't have happened, yes their might have been a little bit of dissident activity but no more then the little that is supposibly happening now, it was all the british governments fault for not listening to the people and making northern ireland a fair and equal state for all, and it was the fault of the BA for deliberately murdering civilians and covering it up

    Again you make claims that the BA killed for "pleasure" yet i am pretty positive that you will never post solid evidence of this.

    People say oh whataboutery blah blah blah but lets remember that it was the IRA who indiscriminately planted bombs that killed innocent people, It was the IRA who kidnapped and murdered innocent civilians and it was the IRA who cried shoot to kill when members of their terrorist organization were killed.


  • #76
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Aaaand breath in....

    Take another tablet, swallow, breath out


  • #77
    joe swanson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    one sided arguements? your one to talk. i notice you havnt mentioned how the british army were/are scum

    Maybe if you read my posts you shall see that i believe that anyone who commits murder is scum.

    I am not blinkered like some on here.


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