Bloody Sunday troops face murder arrests 41 years after massacre

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2468333/End-immunity-1Para-Bloody-Sunday-troops-face-murder-arrests-41-years-massacre.html

As many as 20 retired British soldiers could face being arrested for murder in connection with the Bloody Sunday shootings of 1972.
Attempted murder and criminal injury charges could also be brought against the men, most of whom are now in their sixties and seventies.
The soldiers face questioning under criminal caution for their involvement in the incident which killed 14 Catholic civil rights protestors in Londonderry, Ireland.

The development comes three years after a £200m inquiry by Lord Saville into the shootings produced its report based on 12 years of investigation.
Its findings concluded that all those shot by paratroopers during the march in the Bogside area of Londonderry were unarmed, rendering their deaths 'unjustified and unjustifiable'.

The judge added the army had lost control of the situation which is known as one of the most poignant incidents of the Troubles.
The Ministry of Defence has started sourcing legal representatives on behalf of the soldiers, who have never been formally interviewed by police in relation to the shootings.
Colonel Edward Loden, who commanded the unit involved in the attack, was killed earlier this year in Kenya.
Loden was exonerated by the Saville Inquiry into the killings, which said that he did not realise his soldiers might be firing at people who did not pose a threat.
A source close to the case told The Sunday Times: 'It is possible that some of the soldiers will be prosecuted', adding that action would be 'imminent'.
The Police Service of Northern Ireland however said the case could take a little longer.
A spokesman said: 'Preliminary work has begun into what will be a lengthy and complex investigation into the events of January 30, 1972.
'For the investigation to be as comprehensive and effective as possible, police will be asking for public support in the form of witnesses who gave evidence to the Saville inquiry.'
The representative also revealed detectives would be prohibited from including Saville testimony to pursue criminal charges.

The expensive Saville inquiry concluded that 26 British Army soldiers had opened fire although not all of their shots hit demonstrators.
Two soldiers, identified only as Lance Corporal F and Soldier G, may have shot as many as eight or 10 people between them, it suggested.
Most of the soldiers involved are still alive though their identities have been protected to safeguard them from reprisals.
They each gave anonymous evidence at the Saville inquiry, in the hope their testimony would help resolve the situation once and for all.
The soldiers were given legal assurances their testimony would not later be used against them in pursuit of criminal activity.
Their accounts relied on the defence they acted under 'yellow card' rules of engagement which permits soldiers to open fire if a legitimate threat to life is identified.
Several of the men claimed they believed they were under fire, though the shots they heard were in fact echoes of those being fired near a block of flats by their colleagues.
Thirteen were killed on January 30 after soldiers opened fire on the streets of Londonderry.
A fourteenth protestor died as a result of injuries sustained on the same day.

It's about time, and an absolute tragedy that this has taken so long and cost so much money to do so. What is equally sickening is the comments under the article. I hope the bastards responsible die in prison.

guttenberg

Nothing will come of it. There is no chance that they will be able to get enough evidence for them to see the inside of a courtroom, let alone convict them. Statements made at the Saville Inquiry can't be used against them.

Seachmall

Londonderry

Bastards.

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guttenberg wrote: »

Nothing will come of it. There is no chance that they will be able to get enough evidence for them to see the inside of a courtroom, let alone convict them. Statements made at the Saville Inquiry can't be used against them.

There is an easy way around the fact that the statements can't be used - the people can just make another statement.

wolfpawnat

Whatever your thoughts on the two sides of the troubles, all innocent victims deserve justice. I have no doubt if there are even convictions, they will not be deserving of the crimes. It is terrible that those people have not seen justice in over 40 years. They are only a handful of many who were shot by trigger happy "soldiers" in that era.

wolfpawnat

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There is an easy way around the fact that the statements can't be used - the people can just make another statement.

Arse loads of physical evidence never hurts either!

Grandpa Hassan

Before they see a courtroom, two hurdles need to be passed. There has to be a public interest AND there has to be a reasonable chance of a successful prosecution. People will have strong views on the first. But it's highly unlikely the second will be met. Very unlikely this ever gets to court. A successful criminal prosecution is very different to the findings of an enquiry. A much different burden of proof

wolfpawnat

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Before they see a courtroom, two hurdles need to be passed. There has to be a public interest AND there has to be a reasonable chance of a successful prosecution. People will have strong views on the first. But it's highly unlikely the second will be met. Very unlikely this ever gets to court

The difficult part will be proving who shot the fatal shots, as for reasonable chance of success, the evidence is there, to not prosecute could cause a lot of issues.

On a side note, when something happens in the 6 counties Britain likes, it is called NI UK, but when it is something Britain would rather not be seen as tied to, it is just called Ireland.

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wolfpawnat wrote: »

On a side note, when something happens in the 6 counties Britain likes, it is called NI UK, but when it is something Britain would rather not be seen as tied to, it is just called Ireland.

They do that with Scotland and Wales too.

Karl Stein

I doubt the murdering scumbags will ever see the inside of a prison. Nope, they'll continue to collect their army pensions and polish their medals.

el pasco

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2468333/End-immunity-1Para-Bloody-Sunday-troops-face-murder-arrests-41-years-massacre.html


It's about time, and an absolute tragedy that this has taken so long and cost so much money to do so. What is equally sickening is the comments under the article. I hope the bastards responsible die in prison.

Problem is that it's too little too late like this should if being dealt with back in the 70's many of the men now are dead or not fit for trial and the top brass will get off as usual

Justice delayed is Justice denied

Wonder if Bloody Sunday was handed properly the troubles could of turned out to be a lot more peaceful with a lot less death and suffering on all sides

Hope the families get their peace and justice

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el pasco wrote: »

Problem is that it's too little too late like this should if being dealt with back in the 70's many of the men now are dead or not fit for trial and the top brass will get off as usual

Justice delayed is Justice denied

Wonder if Bloody Sunday was handed properly the troubles could of turned out to be a lot more peaceful with a lot less death and suffering on all sides

Hope the families get their peace and justice

I'm still holding out for justice over the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

wolfpawnat

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I'm still holding out for justice over the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

Now that is one that needs to be sorted.

As for the "not fit to stand trial" as late as the 00's people were tried for Nazi war crimes. Some in their Mid 90's. The British helped try them so they can't use that excuse now. War crimes are war crimes, regardless of who does them.

Grandpa Hassan

wolfpawnat wrote: »

The difficult part will be proving who shot the fatal shots, as for reasonable chance of success, the evidence is there, to not prosecute could cause a lot of issues.

.

That's the problem. They have to prove beyond reasonable doubt the individuals who fired the fatal shots. A criminal prosecution is nothing like an inquiry. Taking it to court and losing would be much more damaging than not bringing the case at all, and I should think that that will be a core part of the decision whether or not to prosecute. They're going to need to be pretty damn sure of securing a guilty verdict before they bring the case or the fallout will be horrific

wolfpawnat

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

That's the problem. They have to prove beyond reasonable doubt the individuals who fired the fatal shots. A criminal prosecution is nothing like an inquiry. Taking it to court and losing would be much more damaging than not bringing the case at all, and I should think that that will be a core part of the decision whether or not to prosecute. They're going to need to be pretty damn sure of securing a guilty verdict before they bring the case or the fallout will be horrific

Telling the relatives that after all they have been through they may not get justice could case a lot of issues too. It is very thin ice that this is all balancing on. As I said, I do not see convictions, but one can hope.

guttenberg

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There is an easy way around the fact that the statements can't be used - the people can just make another statement.

Aye cause your going to get a load of English men to make self incriminating statements about the murders their unit carried out over 40 years ago?

end of the road

oh i did read the comments under the article, full of the tippical whataboutery/the big bad PC brigade/the army are being sold out/backstabbed/it was the IRA'S fault these people were shot/the troops were sent there/they did a good job/this is a discrase nonsense. not surprised, the tippical reader of this rag is the type to support the army and condone them no matter what so i shouldn't be surprised, just as well i didn't take the time to comment because i have better things to do then read the rantings (sorry replies) of the failed EDL types

Nodin

end of the road wrote: »

oh i did read the comments under the article, full of the tippical whataboutery/the big bad PC brigade/the army are being sold out/backstabbed/it was the IRA'S fault these people were shot/the troops were sent there/they did a good job/this is a discrase nonsense. not surprised, the tippical reader of this rag is the type to support the army and condone them no matter what so i shouldn't be surprised, just as well i didn't take the time to comment because i have better things to do then read the rantings (sorry replies) of the failed EDL types

O they're being sold out allright. They were sent in there to "send a message" in classic colonial fashion and did exactly what they were supposed to do. Some persons somewhere didn't take into account the proliferation of European media and the fact that the North is not in fact thousands of miles away from it.

Painted Pony

Nodin wrote: »

They were sent in there to "send a message" in classic colonial fashion and did exactly what they were supposed to do.

Is that an opinion or is it based on something in the Saville report?

Nodin

Painted Pony wrote: »

Is that an opinion or is it based on something in the Saville report?

...it's based on the fact that that was policing as Africa and various parts of the world had known it.

Savilles remit was limited to the "events of the day, Sunday, 30th January 1972".

annascott

yawn....

leave the guys alone.

end of the road

annascott wrote: »

yawn....

leave the guys alone.

why? is it okay for members of the british army to shoot innocent civilians and then lie afterwords? i suppose you condone that while bitching about the IRA?

keeponhurling

Surely Saville was just a step in the way to what the victims' families really want, the people responsible to be held to account ?

They have to take criminal proceedings

Son Of A Vidic

annascott wrote: »

yawn....

leave the guys alone.

Yawn? With ridiculous commentary like that, perhaps you should have left this thread alone.

The Golden Miller

annascott wrote: »

yawn....

leave the guys alone.

your an absolute idiot

Oakboy

annascott wrote: »

yawn....

leave the guys alone.

What the actual fcuk?! This makes me so angry. Quite frankly you are a disgrace of a human being. A first cousin of my father's was gunned down that day by one of the murdering scum and you want that poor fella left alone so he can toddle safely home and die in bed

diomed

A European court might find them guilty.
A British court are as likely to find them guilty as I am to win the Euromillions.

joe swanson

I hope justice is done after all this time. But what i for the life of me cant figure out is the hypocrisy of SOME people giving out about looking for jjustice while in other threads being ira apologists. I suppose justice depends on who is getting shot.

Anywa i really hope anybody who did anything illegal on that terrible day are held accountable.

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joe swanson wrote: »

I hope justice is done after all this time. But what i for the life of me cant figure out is the hypocrisy of SOME people giving out about looking for jjustice while in other threads being ira apologists. I suppose justice depends on who is getting shot.

Anywa i really hope anybody who did anything illegal on that terrible day are held accountable.

It is the event that kicked "The Troubles" off.

rockatansky

For arguments sake, if any of the of the paratroopers were successfully convicted of murder and sentenced, would they be entitled to immediate release as part of the Good Friday Agreement?

joe swanson

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It is the event that kicked "The Troubles" off.

The ira were well established at that stage.