Government to set min price on gargle

drdeadlift · 22-10-2013 4:42pm #1

Just seen this posted on the it site.
Is this to stop underselling or is it to hike the tax take..or is it the vintners lobbying?

A part of me feels the government shouldnt have a say on the price on drink or almost anything else

syklops · 22-10-2013 4:47pm

Minimum price for alcohol to be introduced
Cabinet decides to proceed with range of measures but proposed sports sponsorship ban kicked to touch

The Government has shelved plans to ban the sponsorship of sporting events by drinks companies but it will proceed with the introduction of a minimum price regime for alcohol.

The cabinet today decided to proceed with a range of measures to try and control the abuse of alcohol but the proposed sports sponsorship ban which was due to come into force in 2020 has been kicked to touch.

Instead, a working group under the Department of the Taoiseach will report back in 12 months on the implications of the ending of sports sponsorship.

An outright ban will only be considered if and when other means of funding sport have been identified and secured.

The cabinet decided to press ahead with a range of other measures designed to curb the abuse of alcohol, particularly by under-age drinkers.

The main element of the plan is the introduction of minimum prices for alcohol. The new pricing structure will be calculated on the sale price per gram of alcohol.

The system will be introduced after consultation with the Northern Ireland authorities to ensure that there are no major differences in the price structure on both sides of the border.

The is a question mark over whether a minimum price arrangement will be legal under EU competition law but the Government has decided to press ahead.

Another element of the plan will be a ban of drinks advertising on television during the day and early evening and it is expected that a watershed time limit of 9 pm will be introduced.

There will also be a ban on drinks advertising in cinemas during films that are screened for people aged under 18.

New regulations for the display of alcohol in supermarkets and other retail outlets will also be introduced. A strict code for separating alcohol from other products will be policed by environmental inspectors.

A new labeling regime for alcohol products with health warnings and a clear statement of the alcohol strength and calorie count also features in the plan.

Stupid short sighted move IMO. This will effectively make alcohol more expensive which translates to families on low incomes having less money for food.

tin79 · 22-10-2013 4:48pm

It should be called swallow rather than gargle.

uch · 22-10-2013 4:48pm

syklops wrote: »

Stupid short sighted move IMO. This will effectively make alcohol more expensive which translates to families on low incomes having less money for food.

How exactly ?

mikom · 22-10-2013 4:49pm

There is no problem that a tax, levy or charge can't solve according to our "betters".

tin79 · 22-10-2013 4:50pm

uch wrote: »

How exactly ?

It starts off by you missing the joke. And then you missed the joke.

somuj · 22-10-2013 4:51pm

uch wrote: »

How exactly ?

:rolleyes:

folan · 22-10-2013 4:52pm

has this been shown to be effective elsewhere?

i thought they introduced it in scotland, but to very little success?

Dravokivich · 22-10-2013 4:52pm

uch wrote: »

How exactly ?

More money spent on one thing, means less money to spend on another.

keeponhurling · 22-10-2013 4:52pm

Part of my understands that drink can be a problem, A&E wards fulla t weekends due to a fewe drunken idiots.

But also, the government shouldn't be over controlling, they have to let people make their own decisions on whether they want to drink or not, and not be a nanny state

Specialun · 22-10-2013 4:52pm

any coincidence that this is happening at the same time that vintners are well pissed off over wetherspoons showing up?

Artful_Badger · 22-10-2013 4:53pm

syklops wrote: »

Stupid short sighted move IMO. This will effectively make alcohol more expensive which translates to families Alcoholics on low incomes having less money for food.

Fixed.

Banjo String · 22-10-2013 4:55pm

. The system will be introduced after consultation with the Northern Ireland authorities to ensure that there are no major differences in the price structure on both sides of the border.

Sounds like price fixing.

Their is a question mark over whether a minimum price arrangement will be legal under EU competition law but the Government has decided to press ahead.

Let's hope it is.

In fed up with this nanny state tbh.

**** constantly trying to control every little aspect of our lives.

Roll on locals.

Dravokivich · 22-10-2013 4:56pm

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Fixed.

I think how you "fixed" it is part of the problem whit their attitude towards consumers. The assumption that anyone who purchases drink in large quantities is an alcoholic is nonsense, and charging them more in an "effort" to prevent them from buying more is just as nuts.

If we don't buy enough fresh fruit, should that become cheaper?

Artful_Badger · 22-10-2013 4:59pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think how you "fixed" it is part of the problem whit their attitude towards consumers. The assumption that anyone who purchases drink in large quantities is an alcoholic is nonsense, and charging them more in an "effort" to prevent them from buying more is just as nuts.

If we don't buy enough fresh fruit, should that become cheaper?

Its the assumption that those who would still consume alcohol while doing so affects their ability to adequately feed themselves would have a serious problem in relation to alcohol. Which seems to me a perfectly valid assumption.

Whatever valid issues there is with this min price "people wont stop drinking so wont have money for food" isnt one of them.

syklops · 22-10-2013 5:01pm

uch wrote: »

How exactly ?

Most people fund their drinking habits from their disposable income. If they don't have a disposable income, then they don't go out, or don't buy drink. Addicts can't rationalise in the same way. When money is tight and they are forced with the dilemma buy drink or buy food, they will buy drink.

A family with an alcoholic in it, if their income doesn't change but the price of alcohol goes up, the family have less money as a result.

listermint · 22-10-2013 5:02pm

folan wrote: »

has this been shown to be effective elsewhere?

i thought they introduced it in scotland, but to very little success?

Its Ireland, Sure whenever its proven not to work elsewhere. It will work here obviously...

Look at austerity, arent we boomy boom times round here.

syklops · 22-10-2013 5:02pm

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Fixed.

What about the dependants of the alcoholic. What if the alcoholic in question is a single mother of two?

Artful_Badger · 22-10-2013 5:07pm

syklops wrote: »

What about the dependants of the alcoholic. What if the alcoholic in question is a single mother of two?

Then they are already likely abusing or neglecting their dependents to some degree. If these things become apparent the state is obligated to step in and do something but only then. You cant make decisions based on how it will affect addicts who will neglect their children to get their fix. No more than you can give them extra welfare payments to cover the cost of the alcohol.

rubadub · 22-10-2013 5:11pm

folan wrote: »

has this been shown to be effective elsewhere?

i thought they introduced it in scotland, but to very little success?

They planned/discussed introducing it in Scotland, they were left like red faced ignorant idiots when they found out the plan was illegal in the EU, after wasting christ knows how much money on it.

Luckily we were once bitten, twice shy, and did not make fools out of ourselves too, oh wait...

22-10-2013 5:12pm

drdeadlift wrote: »

Just seen this posted on the it site.
Is this to stop underselling or is it to hike the tax take..or is it the vintners lobbying?

A part of me feels the government shouldnt have a say on the price on drink or almost anything else

It's the pubs, like they told us they would do and now they seem to have done it

MadYaker · 22-10-2013 5:13pm

I wish there was a bigger booze black market in Ireland. If this jacks up the price considerably it's where a lot of people will turn, just like cigarettes.

22-10-2013 5:14pm

This sort of thing really annoys me, the government have no place in setting a minimum price on what a shop can sell drink at. Drink is already way too expensive in this country.

At least they have seen sense and ditched the stupid idea of banning drinks companies sponsoring sporting events.

mfceiling · 22-10-2013 5:14pm

It's about time tbh...

Why should someone like me who drinks 2 or 3 cans at the weekend after a hard weeks work, be expected to be allowed relatively cheap beer?

The lad drinking 15 or 16 pints and ending up in hospital...surely he's entitled too

Atlantic Dawn · 22-10-2013 5:15pm

What about countries with alcohol half the price of Ireland and available in every corner shop and little or no alcohol misuse problems, why don't we follow their lead and reduce the price?

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-10-2013 5:20pm

The system will be introduced after consultation with the Northern Ireland authorities to ensure that there are no major differences in the price structure on both sides of the border.

im sure there will be

Newry here we come

Skid X · 22-10-2013 5:22pm

Stupid idea, probably illegal and will only drive more revenue to Northern Ireland's Supermarkets and Off-Licences.

Dravokivich · 22-10-2013 5:24pm

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Its the assumption that those who would still consume alcohol while doing so affects their ability to adequately feed themselves would have a serious problem in relation to alcohol. Which seems to me a perfectly valid assumption.

Whatever valid issues there is with this min price "people wont stop drinking so wont have money for food" isnt one of them.

My comment referring to fresh fruit, could have in reference to anything. The idea of setting a min price to reduce spending on something seen as destructive to the consumer should be questioned with the idea of setting a max price on something seen as beneficial to the consumer.

Its total bollox just like limiting the availability of when one can go to an off license.

giant_midget · 22-10-2013 5:31pm

The government also should be looking to set a MAX level of pricing for pubs? Nothing wrong with that idea...

humbert · 22-10-2013 5:43pm

Such blatant corruption. Sean Sherlock and SOPA, Enda Kenny refusing to reform the senate in an attempt to have it abolished, and this second restriction on off-licence sales solely of benefit to publicans. Shower of cunts.

Jimoslimos · 22-10-2013 5:46pm

MadYaker wrote: »

I wish there was a bigger booze black market in Ireland. If this jacks up the price considerably it's where a lot of people will turn, just like cigarettes.

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

ScumLord · 22-10-2013 5:54pm

The problem with drink in Ireland seems to be almost entirely focused on overindulgence at the weekend.

Most the pubs in my town are empty these days, people (at least people my age in their 30s) aren't drinking nearly as much as they used to. Binge drinking is restricted to young people from 18 - 30 for the most part I reckon and I don't see how making drink more expensive is going to stop them. They want to go out on the weekend and get drunk, not have a few drinks, they want to get drunk. Raising the price on those people will only encourage them to get more creative, it won't reduce how drunk they get.

Since I've switched over to drinking ales or other speciality beers I am forced to drink at home, they don't stock anything I'd like to drink in a pub anymore and if they did it would be too expensive to even consider trying. At this stage I buy 6-8 bottles of beer and they more or less last me the weekend. This will end up being another nail in the coffin of the Irish pub rather than forcing people back into the pub as I'm sure the vintiners association is expecting.

If anything they should be reducing the tax on locally produced alcoholic drinks to boost local businesses.

humbert · 22-10-2013 5:59pm

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

While I'm no expert on what is sold in Ireland on the black market, methanol poisoning is generally the result of home brewing and black market alcohol is usually not home brewed but simply smuggled. Have their been cases of poisoning from black market alcohol?

darkpagandeath · 22-10-2013 6:09pm

http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-prices-alcohol-cigarettes-960757-Jun2013/

Most expensive in the EU how about lowering the price ..

Potatoeman · 22-10-2013 6:10pm

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Then they are already likely abusing or neglecting their dependents to some degree. If these things become apparent the state is obligated to step in and do something but only then. You cant make decisions based on how it will affect addicts who will neglect their children to get their fix. No more than you can give them extra welfare payments to cover the cost of the alcohol.

This is how gangs make money. They illegally import and sell goods that are targeted for tax hikes. They increase the tax so much that it's profitable to ship products half way across the globe. It's just creating another market for illegal activity. Why can't they educate people in school to have a proper relationship with alcohol.

laugh · 22-10-2013 6:13pm

What a joke compared to the continent.

Off Licences closing at 10 pm, and now artificially high prices for alcohol, is there anything the vintners cannot get away with? How many TDs are publicans?

darkpagandeath · 22-10-2013 6:14pm

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/9789264183896-en/02/06/g2-06-01.html?contentType=/ns/StatisticalPublication,/ns/Chapter&itemId=/content/chapter/9789264183896-25-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/23056088&accessItemIds=&mimeType=text/html

And were in the middle for alcohol consumption not the top by any stretch of the imagination. So why the constant shouting were the biggest drinkers in the EU boll*x come from ?

Artful_Badger · 22-10-2013 6:21pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

This is how gangs make money. They illegally import and sell goods that are targeted for tax hikes. They increase the tax so much that it's profitable to ship products half way across the globe. It's just creating another market for illegal activity. Why can't they educate people in school to have a proper relationship with alcohol.

I agree but its not really got anything to do with my post. I never said I was for the min price, I just dont agree with that one particular argument I responded to.

rubadub · 22-10-2013 6:24pm

humbert wrote: »

While I'm no expert on what is sold in Ireland on the black market, methanol poisoning is generally the result of home brewing and black market alcohol is usually not home brewed but simply smuggled. Have their been cases of poisoning from black market alcohol?

You have that totally backwards. Methanol is present in many fermented products, its in beer, it naturally occurs in unfermented apple juice. I have never EVER seen a case of methanol poisoning due to home brewed & distilled spirits, and I have searched hard. This myth gives it a bad name.

Gangs will raid warehouses and steal methanol or other industrial alcohols and sell them as vodka or other spirits. This is very well documented, loads of cases.

Some gangs will just set up their own distilleries and have fake bottles of branded stuff.

Galwayguy35 · 22-10-2013 6:32pm

Looks like all the bitching and moaning that the VFI have been doing has paid off, it was grand that we could get booze at a reasonable price in the offiie and now we don't even have that choice.

Well the pubs can fook off they still won't be getting any of my money and I suspect many others will feel the same, I think they scored an own goal on this one.

It's a bit galling to hear publicans going on about how cheap alcohol leads to health problems and how those big bad people in the supermarkets are all wrong to sell lower price booze.

I'm old enough to remember when the pub carparks were full of people driving home after a feed of pints, where was all the concern then?

BlurstMonkey · 22-10-2013 6:35pm

I have no words for how consistently disgusted I am with the Irish state. I ran out of bilge to vomit years ago and yet the circus continues. Such stupid, draconian, anti-enlightenment types should be relegated to history books by now. The country as a whole is craven for never having had the opportunity to thrive as a society, until recently, and then it was a baseless, deranged kind of animal for having no framework or direction.

syklops · 22-10-2013 6:40pm

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You cant make decisions based on how it will affect addicts who will neglect their children to get their fix. No more than you can give them extra welfare payments to cover the cost of the alcohol.

If the lobbyists for this legislation are to be believed, then alcoholism is rampant in this country. When the result of the legislation directly affects addicts and their families I would say it is irresponsible to make decisions and not think about how it affects addicts and their families.

goose2005 · 22-10-2013 6:40pm

The system will be introduced after consultation with the Northern Ireland authorities to ensure that there are no major differences in the price structure on both sides of the border.

If you thought the loyalist were pissed off when you took the fleg down, wait until Buckfast jumps in price by £2 or £3. Still, a readymade source of revenue for every type of paramilitary/gangster

keeponhurling wrote: »

Part of my understands that drink can be a problem, A&E wards fulla t weekends due to a fewe drunken idiots.

Those are people who bought expensive pub/nightclub alcohol.

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think how you "fixed" it is part of the problem whit their attitude towards consumers. The assumption that anyone who purchases drink in large quantities is an alcoholic is nonsense, and charging them more in an "effort" to prevent them from buying more is just as nuts.

But even if you only consume a small amount, this will chip away at your resources even more.

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

Only black-market spirits. Homemade beer can't poison you.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And were in the middle for alcohol consumption not the top by any stretch of the imagination. So why the constant shouting were the biggest drinkers in the EU boll*x come from ?

And the levels have been constantly dropping, I think from 13 L a year at peak down to less than 10.

DebDynamite · 22-10-2013 6:47pm

The system will be introduced after consultation with the Northern Ireland authorities to ensure that there are no major differences in the price structure on both sides of the border.

But why would the North increase the price of their drink because the South asked them to. What's in it for them?

Idbatterim · 22-10-2013 6:48pm

interested to see if it will make it worthwhile going up the north again, if it comes in... Not only will I buy alcohol in bulk, all of the grocery shopping will be done there too and Ill be filling up the tank with petrol (I couldnt care less if this costs a few pounds extra up north, it stops the parasites down here creaming off god knows what on a litre of fuel to squander and waste)...

But why would the North increase the price of their drink because the South asked them to. What's in it for them?

nothing except losing money from southerners if they comply...

BlurstMonkey · 22-10-2013 6:54pm

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

It's a by product of making spirits, not cider or beer fyi. And it isn't hard to make spirits correctly, there's nothing wrong with a reliable local supply, which some people do already have.

Temptamperu · 22-10-2013 6:54pm

So vintners or whatever have the government raise off sales prices to herd you back to their over priced pubs. Classic ireland.

Idbatterim · 22-10-2013 6:56pm

I am f**cking delighted weatherspoons and possibly other british chains are coming in!

Arawn · 22-10-2013 6:58pm

The vitners association can **** off.

biko · 22-10-2013 6:58pm

I'm willing to pay whatever a pint cost in the Dáil bar, nothing more.

end of the road · 22-10-2013 7:02pm

uch wrote: »

How exactly ?

because it won't stop underage drinking, it won't stop abuse of alcohol/binge drinking, it will cost to much to enforce as we will need more environmental inspectors to enforce the new regulations in relation to supermarkets, pointless, pointless, pointless, pointless, waste of time and money

Government to set min price on gargle

Comments