Government to set min price on gargle

suicide_circus

kjl wrote: »

And where are they going to get the money to police these infractions?

these infractions are already policed. the courts just need ti follow through.

syklops

kjl wrote: »

I'm still young.

You sound it.

kjl

darkpagandeath wrote: »

stop talking bol*x go look a the figures i posted about EU consumption. I think you will find everywhere in the EU the A&E are jammers. You seem just anti alcohol anti fun.

I am absolutely not anti fun, I am a bit anti alcohol because I think it's a drug and the casual attitude in this country to excessive consumption is appalling.

Look at the reply in this thread alone when they suggest a reasonably price be put on alcohol.

A friend of mine broke his hand on saturday, took 14 hours before he saw someone, I can assure you that would not happen in Germany, France, Spain or Portugal. For god sake I was in South Africa and I broke my elbow (long story) and it only took 30 min to be seen.

ScumLord

kjl wrote: »

I don't drink, and I find it revolting having sex with someone while they are drunk and I'm sober.

So pick up women in places where they're not out to get drunk.

The only people who benefit from cheap alcohol is alcoholics.

That's just dismissive, why should the rest of the country pay extra to protect alcoholics? This measure does nothing to stop alcoholics if anything it will drive them to black market alcohol eliminating any money going to the state or legitimate business.

This move will achieve absolutely nothing but putting a smile on the faces of the vindictive people that just don't like people drinking.

syklops

It took me 20 minutes to be seen in Poland during the doctors strike. They drink a lot more in Poland than here.

Dravokivich

kjl wrote: »

I am absolutely not anti fun, I am a bit anti alcohol because I think it's a drug and the casual attitude in this country to excessive consumption is appalling.

Look at the reply in this thread alone when they suggest a reasonably price be put on alcohol.

A friend of mine broke his hand on saturday, took 14 hours before he saw someone, I can assure you that would not happen in Germany, France, Spain or Portugal. For god sake I was in South Africa and I broke my elbow (long story) and it only took 30 min to be seen.

My girlfriend was recently admitted to get bloods checked. They ended up keeping her overnight after been waiting since midday. The only problem is, this doesn't fit with your issue of drunks filling up A&E because it occurred mid week.

What you are arguing about now is the state of the health service in this country.

Again, another irrelevant redirection from you.

jester77

kjl wrote: »

look 24 cans for €20 is cheap, I don't care if other countries are cheaper they don't have the same gdp as this country. Irish people earn more and as such luxuries cost more.

That would be considered expensive in Germany which has a much higher GDP than Ireland.

onemorechance

kjl wrote: »

And where are they going to get the money to police these infractions?

These infractions are already being policed, but not as heavily penalised as they should be. Unless you mean the medical cards; the health system is in need of massive reform, if medical cards were handled in a similar way as private health insurance policies, where for example smokers are charged a higher premium, those on medical cards who abuse their heath with excess alcohol consumption and don't attempt to curb it, should be considered lower priority and are bumped down waiting lists. It would likely take public / private partnership for such a system to work.

kjl

kjl wrote: »

A friend of mine broke his hand on saturday, took 14 hours before he saw someone, I can assure you that would not happen in Germany, France, Spain or Portugal. For god sake I was in South Africa and I broke my elbow (long story) and it only took 30 min to be seen.

So it took 14 hours for your friend to be seen and somehow that's alcahols fault?
A friend of mine broke his leg on a Tuesday morning and wasn't seen till the next day. He was in A&E for nearly 24 hours and during that time only 1 person came in drunk. Perhaps the reason it takes so long to be seen is that staff are unable to cope and the constant cutbacks in the health service are only making the issues worse

kjl

suicide_circus wrote: »

you are talking bollix. you're probably a recovering alcoholic yourself. you seriously contend that the majority of the Irish population has a drink problem?

Not at all, I dabbled with alcohol in my early 20's but it wasn't for me. Been sober for about 13 year. I know that there is a problem with drink in this country because I live here. If you seriously think that binge drinking is not a problem in this country then you should go back to lala land because you are in denial.

kjl

Deleted User wrote: »

So it took 14 hours for your friend to be seen and somehow that's alcahols fault?
A friend of mine broke his leg on a Tuesday morning and wasn't seen till the next day. He was in A&E for nearly 24 hours and during that time only 1 person came in drunk. Perhaps the reason it takes so long to be seen is that staff are unable to cope and the constant cutbacks in the health service are only making the issues worse

or that the are filled up with people who have had accident which consuming alcohol. The figures for a weekday are a lot lower, nothing to do with cut backs. Just so you know this has been an issue long before the recession and any cut back too place.

OldNotWIse

kjl wrote: »

Not at all, I dabbled with alcohol in my early 20's but it wasn't for me. Been sober for about 13 year. I know that there is a problem with drink in this country because I live here. If you seriously think that binge drinking is not a problem in this country then you should go back to lala land because you are in denial.

I have "been sober" for the majority of 30 years - what box would you like to put me in?

rubadub

kjl wrote: »

Plus, you guys realise that tesco, lidl, aldi, they all export their profits so it's bad for the economy too. At least with the new proposal the extra tax generated will be put to good use.

Say tesco are selling €1 cans and breaking even, zero profit, I will avoid overheads etc, just try an keep it simple. Currently there is 23% VAT on this, so this is 81.3cent before tax. the government getting 18.7cent.

If the min cost is set to €2 then the government only gets 18.7cent more in tax, meanwhile tesco get an extra 81.3cent as profit, which you tell me will be exported.

kjl wrote: »

The only people who benefit from cheap alcohol is alcoholics.

And the hospitality trade, tourism etc. You don't have to be an alcoholic to appreciate a good price on alcohol. If you turn your comment on its head you are logically also claiming all nonalcoholics should benefit from expensive alcohol.

Bobeagleburger

So when is this coming in?

I must stock up with a few years supply

kjl

onemorechance wrote: »

These infractions are already being policed, but not as heavily penalised as they should be. Unless you mean the medical cards; the health system is in need of massive reform, if medical cards were handled in a similar way as private health insurance policies, where for example smokers are charged a higher premium, those on medical cards who abuse their heath with excess alcohol consumption and don't attempt to curb it, should be considered lower priority and are bumped down waiting lists. It would likely take public / private partnership for such a system to work.

And the judicial system costs? the holding costs? the insurance costs?

rubadub

rarnes1 wrote: »

So when is this coming in?

Hopefully never, supposed to be illegal under EU law, scotland already tried it.

jimgoose

kjl wrote: »

Not at all, I dabbled with alcohol in my early 20's but it wasn't for me. Been sober for about 13 year. I know that there is a problem with drink in this country because I live here. If you seriously think that binge drinking is not a problem in this country then you should go back to lala land because you are in denial.

There's a problem with drink in this country right enough, and that problem is gobsheen publicans and illiterate braying asses in government interfering with the price of it. The problems of people with substance abuse issues should have no bearing whatsoever on what I pay for goods.

kjl

kjl wrote: »

or that the are filled up with people who have had accident which consuming alcohol. The figures for a weekday are a lot lower, nothing to do with cut backs. Just so you know this has been an issue long before the recession and any cut back too place.

How do you explain the fact that your friend was seen almost 12 hours faster on a weekend than my friend was on a weekday? Surely if alcahol is such a huge contributory factor to A&E waiting times then weekdays should see far quicker service

kjl

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I have "been sober" for the majority of 30 years - what box would you like to put me in?

I would change your username to OldAndWise, fair play.

onemorechance

kjl wrote: »

And the judicial system costs? the holding costs? the insurance costs?

Sorry, I cannot state what has already being stated in a more facile manner.

The Narrator

Clearly, everything can be fixed by raising prices.

Emissions from cars becoming an issue? Raise the price of petrol, surely that will ensure people drive less than they need to.

People think they can afford their own fancy private health insurance? Not if we have anything to do with it...

A cultural problem with alcohol? Raise the price, sure that will change how a society thinks about drinking!

We need to change how we think about things as a society, not just try and ensure that we are screwing as many people as possible.

Our whole society has turned in a nation of finger pointers (coordinated by the government and media), it's getting sickening at this stage.

kjl

Deleted User wrote: »

How do you explain the fact that your friend was seen almost 12 hours faster on a weekend than my friend was on a weekday? Surely if alcahol is such a huge contributory factor to A&E waiting times then weekdays should see far quicker service

I think your friend was unlucky. If it was a simple blood test, why didn't she go to GP?

hatrickpatrick

kjl wrote: »

I think your friend was unlucky. If it was a simple blood test, why didn't she go to GP?

This is apparently the main reason for Irish A&E being such a disaster - too many people going to A&E when they don't actually belong in A&E.

Dravokivich

kjl wrote: »

If it was a simple blood test, why didn't she go to GP?

I take it you're referring to my earlier post. GP sent her to A&E. Not everyone there is a waster. Which you seem to be inferring.

kjl

The Narrator wrote: »

Clearly, everything can be fixed by raising prices.

Emissions from cars becoming an issue? Raise the price of petrol, surely that will ensure people drive less than they need to.

People think they can afford their own fancy private health insurance? Not if we have anything to do with it...

A cultural problem with alcohol? Raise the price, sure that will change how a society thinks about drinking!

We need to change how we think about things as a society, not just try and ensure that we are screwing as many people as possible.

Our whole society has turned in a nation of finger pointers (coordinated by the government and media), it's getting sickening at this stage.

Were you this outraged when they started charging for plastic bags? The extra tax can be used to treatment centers and education.

yoyo

rarnes1 wrote: »

So when is this coming in?

More than likely never, as it would be illegal to do so. A similar thing was tried in Scotland and failed, likewise here but with cigarette prices. As if increasing the price of drink will solve all the issues :rolleyes: . I do know of a raging alcoholic and he never drank at home.
It was always pints of Guinness down in the pub. He actually used to criticise home drinking (the irony of it all!). I doubt he's the only one either.. But I suppose in this country it's fine to drink more and be an alcoholic once you pay more.. Something not quite right about that kind of thinking :rolleyes:

Nick

jimgoose

kjl wrote: »

Were you this outraged when they started charging for plastic bags? The extra tax can be used to treatment centers and education.

The problem is tax being used to influence certain behaviours, which is a perfectly legitimate and sensible use of the tax system, and then the likes of Baldy Noonan crawnshawling about revenue when people stop doing the thing that the tax is supposed to make them stop doing. Normal, civilized people with functioning minds would consider that job-jobbed, but around here the usual caper is to increase the tax in question even more, Laffer Curve be damned!

seanie_c

Alcohol is just another chemical/drug people use as a coping mechanism.

Yes, alcohol is abused, but why?

Why do some people feel the need to consume so much alcohol they can barely walk or talk properly?

It's pretty sad society passes it off as being normal.

rubadub

kjl wrote: »

Were you this outraged when they started charging for plastic bags? The extra tax can be used to treatment centers and education.

I already explained the difference, we do not get all this new cost all as tax

rubadub wrote: »

Say tesco are selling €1 cans and breaking even, zero profit, I will avoid overheads etc, just try an keep it simple. Currently there is 23% VAT on this, so this is 81.3cent before tax. the government getting 18.7cent.

If the min cost is set to €2 then the government only gets 18.7cent more in tax, meanwhile tesco get an extra 81.3cent as profit, which you tell me will be exported.

The new bag tax law/levy did have a minimum charge which many do not know about
http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/Waste/PlasticBags/

Alternatives to Disposable Plastic Bags

Alternatives to disposable plastic shopping bags, such as reusable bags are now available in shops. The consumer has changed to using these alternatives. In the grocery sector, disposable plastic bags have largely been replaced by reusable shopping bags.
Plastic shopping bags designed for re-use are exempt from the levy provided the retailer charges at least 70 cent for the bag

And yes, there were complaints about this for the same reason in other threads. i.e. the government did not avail of this extra profit, when the supermarket by law had to increase their bag prices from ~50cent to 70cent. This was a more sensible law though, people are not buying loads of these bags as standard.

kjl

rubadub wrote: »

I already explained the difference, we do not get all this new cost all as tax



The new bag tax law/levy did have a minimum charge which many do not know about
http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/Waste/PlasticBags/


And yes, there were complaints about this for the same reason in other threads. i.e. the government did not avail of this extra profit, when the supermarket by law had to increase their bag prices from ~50cent to 70cent. This was a more sensible law though, people are not buying loads of these bags as standard.

ok so people are not using loads of bags because the are charged for them, and you somehow want to argue that alcohol consumption won't go down if people are charged more for it? I would imaging the demand would be elastic.

Are you saying that the extra revenue will simply go into the shop keepers hands? Well if that is the case I don't agree with it, it should be a tax and not a forced suggestion.