Kenny declares war on welfare culture

fliball123 wrote: »

How can I afford to? Do you know my circumstances? I have no truck losing my childrens allowance providing I dont have to pay for anyone elses children.. that would be a fair way of doing it..So instead of the billions paid out in childrens allowance use that amount to cut taxes and stop incentivising people to have children on the tax payers dime while the tax payer cant afford to have their own

Ah c'mon do you not smell the sarcasm? My point was simply this and many other threads which call for SW reform have taxing and means testing child benefit on top of their agenda. Its a terrible thing that middle class kids get the child benefit and Mammy spends it on lattes and fueling her X5!

To answer your question I don't know your circumstances and so wouldn't presume to be in a position to direct what benefits you should not be entitled to .. doesn't stop others using bar stool economics and reforms calling for it though.

creedp wrote: »

Ah c'mon do you not smell the sarcasm? My point was simply this and many other threads which call for SW reform have taxing and means testing child benefit on top of their agenda. Its a terrible thing that middle class kids get the child benefit and Mammy spends it on lattes and fueling her X5!

To answer your question I don't know your circumstances and so wouldn't presume to be in a position to direct what benefits you should not be entitled to .. doesn't stop others using bar stool economics and reforms calling for it though.

sorry for jumping the gun and yeah the stench of sarcasm is coming over after re-reading

Childrens benefit should be scrapped and things such as vouchers for clothes, food , school books, a creche fee allowance and free medical care (already brought in for under 5s) should be the way forward as you say the money is not actually going on the kid..If it was made that it had to be spent on the kid it would be a hell of a lot better

FTA69 wrote: »

Total rubbish. Irish people are no more lazy then their English counterparts.

http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2013/10/the-war-on-youth-2-those-lazy-lazy-kids.html

As this graph shows above, when jobs were available Irish young people had some of the highest levels of employment in Europe and also worked more hours than most of their European counterparts. Irish young people are not at all lazy. The problem here is the complete lack of jobs out there, there are multiple applicants looking for every one vacancy out there. That is the core problem in Ireland today.

As evidenced by this right-wing w*nk-fest of a thread however, people feel far more comfortable blaming the unemployed and pretending that a bout of mass laziness has afflicted the country since 2008.

yeah thats why when you go into the likes of McDonalds, Aldi, Lidl, tesco and the likes of the spar shops there are a very large % of the employees who are non nationals (well this is the case in Dublin in my experience)...The irish youngsters (celtic cubs) who grew up during the boom a lot have a lazy disposition when it comes to work as mammy and daddy were awash with cheap credit and had all that their little hearts desired without so much as making them wash a dish for their new found toys

FTA69 wrote: »

As you can see from the proven statistics above (as opposed to anecdotal bullsh*t), Irish young people worked some of the longest in Europe. Longer than young people in the UK and Germany. The notion that Irish people are lazy is fallacious nonsense.

Other statistics also show that there are dozens of applicants for every actual vacancy, and that includes the minimum-wage ones.

How is it bullsh1t..all you have to do is go into your local aldi / lidl or tesco and have a look around..the people immigrating into Ireland are doing the jobs that the Celtic cubs beneath them..

imitation wrote: »

Its more self deprication, just because we now have foreign nationals working here in significant numbers doesnt mean irish youth are lazy as a whole. Last few students i met on work placement kept over there part jobs during there placement, effectively keeping a 10-15 hr job on top of a 40 paid job, not what I would call a celtic cub, Which is just another boring david mcwilliams sterotype made up to appeal to typical irish begrudgery.

Sorry but the ratio of non irish to irish in jobs that I have stated is overwhelmingly populated by non irish citizens. Your stats are 8 years out of date and sample a time when a 18 year old could come out of school and earn 800/900 a week on a construction site..so the stats you have put up are skewed and out of date...As I say go to the less desirable jobs such as burger flipping in Mcdonalds or shelf stacking in aldi and I guarantee you that you will see more foreign nationals than Irish people doing it..Its all there in front of everyone's eyes to see

fliball123 wrote: »

How is it bullsh1t..all you have to do is go into your local aldi / lidl or tesco and have a look around..the people immigrating into Ireland are doing the jobs that the Celtic cubs beneath them..

It's bullsh*t because there are hundreds of thousands of people on the live register and not nearly enough jobs to go around. That's the stark reality of the situation. You saying you saw a Pakistani in Spar or a Pole in Aldi, or that you know some lazy people doesn't change that fact. You have no proof to back up your claim bar confirmation-biased anecdote. I worked in the service industry for years and the vast majority of low-paid people I came across were Irish.

The number of people on the live register far outstrips the amount of vacancies, and that's before emigration and JobBridge is factored in. In fact, the latter has led to entry-level jobs actually being sucked out of the economy as companies opt to use free labour instead.

FTA69 wrote: »

It's bullsh*t because there are hundreds of thousands of people on the live register and not nearly enough jobs to go around. That's the stark reality of the situation. You saying you saw a Pakistani in Spar or a Pole in Aldi, or that you know some lazy people doesn't change that fact. You have no proof to back up your claim bar confirmation-biased anecdote. I worked in the service industry for years and the vast majority of low-paid people I came across were Irish.

The number of people on the live register far outstrips the amount of vacancies, and that's before emigration and JobBridge is factored in. In fact, the latter has led to entry-level jobs actually being sucked out of the economy as companies opt to use free labour instead.

Not just one pakistani or polish person in an aldi but the majority of the lower end jobs in Dublin are populated by non nationals....and to your point of proof..just go have a look around the stores in dublin ..as for the stats offered as the celtic cubs are the hardest workers in Europe..they were 8 years out of date and at a time when an 18 year old could go on a construction site and earn 800/900 euros a week.

Anyways you can argue either way..there are no doubt that there are more people out there than jobs ..I accept that..But on the flip.. There has been many employers who cant get an employee in to work as it doesnt make sense as their welfare entitlements far outweigh what they would earn. Also you have to take into consideration that people working are overpaying in taxes and a cut in the dole is an attempt to start incentivising people taking up jobs even those jobs considered to be undesirable.

FTA69 wrote: »

Insane amounts of money? The average wage for a labourer during the boom in Ireland was around €550 for a 45-50 hour week of hard bloody work

Jank,



The stats are from Eurostat. They weren't compiled by Unite. Similarly the statistics prove what they set out to explain: namely that Irish young people when given the opportunity to work demonstrate themselves able to take up work and also to work some of the longest hours in Europe.

The wage was outrageously high for an 18 year old ..If you compare accross the Eurozone. If such a boom happened again I am sure the dole would empty again if they could earn that much..The problem is when that amount of money is not on offer..

FTA69 wrote: »

fliball123 wrote: »

You "having a nose around Dublin" isn't proof of anything. Sorry. It's conjecture and confirmation-bias. How many Irish barstaff do you know? How many Irish waitresses? How many Irish supermarket workers? How many Irish working in coffee shops? I know loads.



Nobody walked into a grand a week job as a labourer.

What I offer is not proof in itself but its a way for anyone looking at this thread to find out for themselves....Which is more proof than stats 8 years out of date and at a time when an 18 year old could earn more money than a lot of professionals out there....

As for a grand a week I played ball with 2/3 heads who worked on building sites as laborers during the boom and they were earning more than I was and I had a degree and nearly 10 years in the IT industry, these guys were not educated but they were good at what they did and they were coming out with 800 a week with the overtime they were doing.

fliball123 wrote: »

What I offer is not proof in itself but its a way for anyone looking at this thread to find out for themselves

Conjecture is all it is. Nothing more.

....Which is more proof than stats 8 years out of date and at a time when an 18 year old could earn more money than a lot of professionals out there....

Nobody is stating the stats are recent. The stats are demonstrating that Irish young people work and work hard when jobs are available. There are no jobs now and that's the biggest reason behind unemployment. Laziness isn't an issue and is a crude distraction technique employed by the government.

these guys were not educated but they were good at what they did and they were coming out with 800 a week with the overtime they were doing.

Nobody was getting 20 bucks an hour for labouring unless they were a skilled operative such as a scaffolder or a machine operator etc. You didn't get that wage for mixing cement or carrying blocks.

FTA69 wrote: »

It was a good wage, no doubt about it. But it was also well earned for the type of work and the context in which it was going on. A massive demand for labour drives up wages.

It is unfortunate however that many young men abandoned vocational training and educational prospects to engage in it however. Still, I wouldn't call someone up at 6am to do hard physical labour "lazy" or a "cub". That sort of language is patronising b*llocks to be honest.

A labourers wage during the boom was very high when compared with the rest of Europe.....I am not trying to be patrionising..Look anyone making a genuine effort to get employment or anyone who had been working and lost their job during the recession should be supported by the state.....but even during the boom there were still people on the dole..anyone not making an effort to find work no matter how trivial or how ever much it pays should have welfare entitlements cut.

Also its all very well and good looking at this from the welfare side..hows the about the tax payer who has to pony up more and more in taxes to pay for welfare?

Tabnabs wrote: »

With all these "welfare traps" eradicated and people back to work, can we expect a reduction in taxes and more of our hard earned money staying in our pay checks?

I wouldn't rule it out in the future.

For the moment, across the board income tax breaks are unlikely for a State borrowing 12bn to fund itself.

noodler wrote: »

I wouldn't rule it out in the future.

For the moment, across the board income tax breaks are unlikely for a State borrowing 12bn to fund itself.

Ha Are you mad?
The whole purpose of the exercise is to reduce wages, unemployment benefit, pensions, CB etc not to give tax breaks.
IBEC and ISME will see to that with the politicians help.
The rich must remain rich at all costs especially our costs.