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Racing in 2014: 'You have to compete in 6 league races next year before you can race'

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  • 21-10-2013 12:21pm
    #1
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭


    Howdy folks,

    I came across this statement from CramCycle in another thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057065559

    It may need its own thread, but basically, I know from reading on here that this idea was mooted at the CI AGM last year. Has it definitly come into force for 2014? And as others have asked on the other thread, will there be 6 races league races to take part in between now and Feb/Mar next? Are O.D.L's now a thing of the past?


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    #2
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    You can't have league races at the weekend cos it would take from receipts at open races. You can't have them in the evening until mid April due to light.

    How is this meant to work exactly when open racing starts in what, early March?


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    #3
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    CramCycle hasn't commented on that thread once, it was Captain Havoc who mentioned it.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87115160&postcount=7


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    #4
    daragh_
    Registered Users Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭daragh_


    I would like to see a cite or link to this Rule change before we all go off on one. :)


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    #5
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    daragh_ wrote: »
    I would like to see a cite or link to this Rule change before we all go off on one. :)

    Haven't you heard about not questioning Mods in thread?


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    #6
    Plastik
    Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭Plastik


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    You can't have league races at the weekend cos it would take from receipts at open races. You can't have them in the evening until mid April due to light.

    How is this meant to work exactly when open racing starts in what, early March?

    This year the Leinster season started in mid-February.


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    #7
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Plastik wrote: »
    This year the Leinster season started in mid-February.

    Well that's even worse then. If indeed it is true.


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    #8
    Plastik
    Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭Plastik


    From my perspective, based on 2013 ...

    17th Feb: First race of season
    18th April: First club league race (which was a TT)

    ... plus six weeks ... June Bank Holiday weekend.

    Crazy if true.


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    #9
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    It is like a mini probation before you are allowed to race.


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    #10
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    It is like a mini probation before you are allowed to race.

    For some, it could mean never getting to race.

    Anyway, I suggest we wait for clarification first. I can't find any reference to it on the CI site, but I can never find anything on the CI site.


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    #11
    Sr. Assumpta
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Sr. Assumpta


    daragh_ wrote: »
    I would like to see a cite or link to this Rule change before we all go off on one. :)

    Just read through minutes of CI AGM 2013 http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/2013-AGM-Manual.aspx

    and there is no mention of anything about the topic.


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    #12
    bcmf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭bcmf


    If it were to become a rule then it would be grossly unfair to those who cannot league/midweek race due to work and family commitments.


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    #13
    Sr. Assumpta
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Sr. Assumpta


    FYI..... CI AGM will be held next Saturday, 26th October, details here... http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/AGM-2013---Final-notice.aspx so why not come along and get the facts at the coalface, and have your say on the day, instead of, for example, relying on rumours and hearsay... ?


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    #14
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,094 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Although the AGM does often discuss racing matters, I am guessing this falls under "safety" where the Board and it's sub-committees have the powers to set/agree appropriate rules for racing

    There is to be a discussion after the AGM on Saturday and I am sure the safety of racing will be one of the topics covered particularly given issues encountered this year. Having said that, this idae of a 6 race "league probation" is news to me.

    As already mentioned leagues cannot kick off under current rules until the clocks change. My view is that the rule restricting Club races to Monday to Thursday is ovedue a review and I think anyone coming into the sport should give club racing a go first. However before any change in rules there probably needs to be some discussion with the clubs as, by the looks of it, they will be the ones responsible for policing this.


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    #15
    ragazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭ragazzo


    daragh_ wrote: »
    I would like to see a cite or link to this Rule change before we all go off on one. :)

    Exactly.

    One mod on boards mentions something that nobody else seems aware of, provides no source for this snippet, does not attempt to elaborate and everybody discusses it as if it has some merit.

    Whilst I agree that riders should have some experience of bunch riding etc before entering a cycle race, I do not see any merit in the captains disclosure.

    A4 is for new riders and racing beginners and is mainly fit for purpose. Sometimes the bangers will obtain an A4 licence but this should be frowned upon and is inexcusable.
    Limited fields will help to solve early season problems but safe riding is the domain of the riders and their decisions effect the outcomes.

    Roll on 2014. Let's hope it leads to safe and competitive racing.


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    #16
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    If I'm elected on Saturday I promise to get rid of the outdated 6 club races before an open race rule!

    Politically yours,


    Lusk_Doyle


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    #17
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭ratracer


    Harrybelafonte wrote: »
    CramCycle hasn't commented on that thread once, it was Captain Havoc who mentioned it.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87115160&postcount=7

    Apologies for that, my bad :eek:


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    #18
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,094 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    If I'm elected on Saturday I promise to get rid of the outdated 6 club races before an open race rule!

    Politically yours,


    Lusk_Doyle
    You will need "your" club's nomination before you can be elected - and Thailand and Morocco are not options ...


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    #19
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭ratracer


    Well between this thread and the other one I quoted (even though I credited the quote with the wrong person, sorry CramCycle:( ) I appear to have gotten a satisfactory answer to the query.

    Thanks folks.


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    #20
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Beasty wrote: »
    You will need "your" club's nomination before you can be elected - and Thailand and Morocco are not options ...

    You seem to be suggesting that this is some sort of a problem. I have received a wealth of letters of support from clubs around the world. A small few, who have vested commercial interests won't stop me from standing for election.


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    #21
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    Hi, the reason I have not elaborated on this is because I have been at work all day. This is the understanding I have from our club committee, if it is wrong I am sorry to have misinformed you.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #22
    wav1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭wav1


    Having sat on a grading review w/shop this summer,i never once heard any suggestion re having to ride any league races prior to competing in open races.The only place i seen this mooted was on various threads in this forum.TBH i cant see it happening for now.


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    #23
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I'm unaware of any proposal, but if there were something along these lines, I'd be all for it. I'd even go one step further and say you can't do a club race without being passed for riding in club spins.

    The A4 bunch is not the place to learn basic skills.

    I'm not sure how you'd enforce such a rule though if it ever were brought in.


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    #24
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    I'm unaware of any proposal, but if there were something along these lines, I'd be all for it. I'd even go one step further and say you can't do a club race without being passed for riding in club spins.

    The A4 bunch is not the place to learn basic skills.

    I'm not sure how you'd enforce such a rule though if it ever were brought in.

    Sorry Ryan Sherlock, but you haven't participated in the required number of club races this year... We'll see you in June sometime. :pac:


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    #25
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    @ vlad.

    I have to disagree with some of the sentiments you raise. The introductory grading is precisely where most cyclists should learn to race. In Ireland that is A4.

    Your position I feel is influenced by being a member of one of the states largest clubs with a very successful club league.
    Prior to I joining that very same club I was a member of club who at the time had a very very small racing membership. For members of that type of club there is often no option of club league racing - by default it must be A4.

    Cycling should be seeking to grow even further not restrict growth. I hope that this type of proposal receives short shrift if even it arises.

    I think that people need to accept that there is an element of risk to any sport - if you choose to participate then you accept those risks. I accept that cowboy riding can be policed out thru good practice, training, observing and learningfrom your peers. However imposing a rule such as suggested is hamfisted IMHO. It would be far better to use A4 as an actual intro category - maybe have a 10 race limit before mandatory upgrade to A3. Furthermore may e there should be more race commissars in an A4 race - a fact that would obviously have to be paid for out of race entry fee. But of commissars could helpfully point out bad practice to new riders then everyone would win from that.

    Just a few thoughts.


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    #26
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Which group had the most crashes? If we go down that route then the pros are fúckin shíte at riding and need a lot of hand-holding. Of course, I'm only speculating for the reason such a rule might be introduced.


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    #27
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    ROK ON wrote: »
    Your position I feel is influenced by being a member of one of the states largest clubs with a very successful club league.
    Prior to I joining that very same club I was a member of club who at the time had a very very small racing membership. For members of that type of club there is often no option of club league racing - by default it must be A4.

    Smaller clubs can band together to run beginner leagues.

    A4 is an introductory category, but to open racing, not group riding.

    At the moment someone can apply for a race licence and find themselves in the middle of a 100 rider bunch with absolutely not training or instruction whatsoever.


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    #28
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    At the moment someone can apply for a race licence and find themselves in the middle of a 100 rider bunch with absolutely not training or instruction whatsoever.

    Indeed and then they get taken out by the longtime A4 racer who went round the blind bend on the wrong side of the road trying to get into position for the sprint he wont place in........and tries to force his way in when the car comes the other way round the bend.

    There's alot wrong with the A4 peleton and the blame can be cast far and wide.


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    #29
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    Yes they can find themselves in a group with 100 others. I was that soldier and in my very first race I was one of a very significant amount of noobs on that day. Such is life. People are adults and must take responsibility for their actions, abilities and lack thereof.


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    #30
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,094 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I certainly don't think throwing yourself into fields that can be 100+ strong in the middle of February is the way to go about it. There is no-one to teach you the ropes in Open races - you basically observe and hope you get it right. Club racing is a much better environment - senior club members can keep their eye on what's going on in smaller groups and can take time out to give feedback

    People "trying out" racing at A4 level is a recipe for disaster in my view, both for those new to the sport and those they are racing against. Limiting numbers will help but there will still be limited opportunity for proper feedback in open races.


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    #31
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    Smaller clubs can band together to run beginner leagues.

    A4 is an introductory category, but to open racing, not group riding.

    At the moment someone can apply for a race licence and find themselves in the middle of a 100 rider bunch with absolutely not training or instruction whatsoever.

    Which is very dangerous indeed. I've too much wild riding in my years as an *ahem* A4 racer. How does one get a licence without some sort of exam like with driving?


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