Garda - Lack of resources or sheer incompetence?!

Terrontress · 18-10-2013 06:25AM

You say that a patrol car should be able to catch this ne'erdowell but if the Garda car is travelling at an average speed of 150km/h (maybe in a Focus) and the target car at 130km/h, then there is a closing speed of 20km/h. If the criminal has a head start of 10km then it will take the Garda car 30 minutes to catch up, in which time the target car has covered 65km.

The only way to have dealt with this is by having a car up ahead deal with it rather than catching from behind.

18-10-2013 01:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Would it be worth complaining to the station about this? I really find it very shoddy (at the same time, as someone with an interest in Garda Reserves, I wouldn't want to hinder my chances because I moaned to the station previously).

Complain about what? That there was nobody available to stop a known criminal who wasn't committing any offence at the time? Seriously, have a bit of a think about what you are saying. If you want to complain, contact your local FG/Lab TD and complain about lack of resources.

catastrophy · 18-10-2013 02:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A patrol car on the Motorway could have caught up quickly. I was travelling around 100km/h and keeping up. I'd assume a patrol car would be doing nearer 160-180 on a motorway so would have made up the time fairly swiftly. It just seemed like they didnt want to know.

Unfortunately very few members will travel at that speed to a non emergency call. I don't blame them either as we are well aware how they would be treated if god forbid anything went wrong.

OP, if we were living in an ideal world you would have a point. Unfortunately we're not. We don't know what was going on in the background or how much priority was placed on your call.

goldie fish · 18-10-2013 03:01PM

Heard a case of Patrol car recently that caught a speeding ticket courtesy of roadside camera van. FPN was forwarded from HQ to station with note from Super requesting report as to what call was being responded to at the time and associated pulse incident number.
An old garda saying, the job will hang you if it gets the chance.

jamesr123 · 18-10-2013 03:12PM

goldie fish wrote: »

Heard a case of Patrol car recently that caught a speeding ticket courtesy of roadside camera van. FPN was forwarded from HQ to station with note from Super requesting report as to what call was being responded to at the time and associated pulse incident number.
An old garda saying, the job will hang you if it gets the chance.

Well if there was an emergency then they have nothing to fear :cool: If not why are they speeding?...

shampon · 18-10-2013 03:19PM

Zambia wrote: »

Imagine the calls the response cars are dealing with, sometimes they are all tied up. It happens to every emergency service in every country.

Here Here.

catastrophy · 18-10-2013 03:59PM

jamesr123 wrote: »

Well if there was an emergency then they have nothing to fear :cool: If not why are they speeding?...

Not all reported incidents end up being an emergency.

jamesr123 · 18-10-2013 04:31PM

catastrophy wrote: »

Not all reported incidents end up being an emergency.

Sure even if there was a reported incident they'd have something to fall back on..

razzler · 18-10-2013 06:40PM

Was sorely disappointed in the Guards a few years back. Late one night we saw from our bedroom window a guy with a hood and white gloves breaking the lock on the wooden side door of the house opposite us, obviously a burgular. We live in an estate in Dublin 15. We could see everything clearly from our position. Called the Guards straight away. Said they would send a car. A few minutes later the guy emerges, scoots past our house and hides behind a railing for a while watching. He must have got spooked. He returns to the house again to resume breaking in. We're on the phone a few times to the Guards keeping them updated. We really wanted them to catch this guy red handed, so many houses are robbed here. Eventually a squad car passes slowly with the guy watching from behind the side door just yards away and I'm on the phone telling this to the guard in the station as it's happening. Over the next 30 mins approx. the guy gets nervous a few more times and hides behind the railing but returns to the house again each time. During this time an unmarked car passes slowly, with the guy watching again and we've been on the phone to the local station many times relaying all his movements in real time. VERY Frustrating. I'm saying to the guard on the phone "Yeah, we see the car now, and the guy is right there behind the gate, we can see him watching the car, he's just 5 yards away". But the car leaves, the guy leaves and STILL comes back again even though it's obvious to him now the guards are alerted to something. Then comes the bit that stuns me, a while later we hear a squad car sounding it's siren for just a second, a minute later it pulls up outside the house in question and the guards get out and 'investigate'. Clearly they sounded their siren before they got there to give a warning so the guy could scarper. Why? I can only guess that they didn't want the hassle of apprehending a criminal. It annoys me then when they say at community meetings how they are trying to reduce crime in the area. Maybe the reason why the guy still persisted even though the cars came by is because he knows guards here would prefer not to have to catch someone. This whole episode lasted about 1hr and a quarter. The home owner and his wife were upstairs asleep until the guards established the burglar was gone (surprise, surprise) and rang the bell and talked to them for a while. Next morning I meet him and he starts to praise the guards for coming out until I give him the rundown of events, and he's then as incredulous as I was. I'm still kicking myself for not following up on this and making a complaint or something about how this was handled, sheer lack of interest in catching a burglar in action.

seavill · 18-10-2013 09:38PM

OP I would suggest you ask your CSI friend how many garda would actually be on duty in that station at night. Now consider one must be at front office. two at cells, if there had been a crash that car you saw may have been dealing with that maybe life and death as opposed to your situation. Would you rather they leave that to respond to you.
Another couple of cars dealing with a kick off at a local pub.
One investigating something like the last persons break in.

Where do you propose all the cars and Garda come out of to deal with what may or may not be a suspect in a case that may or may not be ongoing. They may be waiting on sufficent evidence to arrest this person. Just because they know he might be a criminal doesn't mean they can go and arrest him every time they see him walking down the street. It takes time to build up a book of evidence to charge someone.
Arresting someone then takes a Garda maybe 2 off the street for a couple of hours, where as if this person is clearly not hiding it wouldnt take much to go call to their house if they really wanted him.

There are so many hundreds of variables in an hour in a garda station. You have no clue what happened in that 30 mins nor the preceeding 30 or the following 30 mins.

Get a life for yourself and stop trying to make hassle, You initially did as they asked however due to unknown issues to you it did not pan out as planned so move on, if this guy is as famous as you think as a criminal they know where he lives they know where he hangs out etc etc etc. if they want him they will find him.

19-10-2013 12:22AM

I do understand that Garda cars can be tied up with several different events occurring at once. This is perfectly understandable. I'm also aware that the Gardai, for several years in a row, have faced cutbacks and no recruitment.

I'm fairly clued in to the plight of the average Garda. I accept that they do a pretty horrible job, in very tough conditions and often will receive verbal and even physical abuse in their role.

I'd spend a fair bit of time around Gardaí and I'd see them dealing with different bits and bobs. I've expressed my understanding and appreciation for them many a time on boards.

I'd know a fair few from the local station to say hello to and every now and again would stop and have a short laugh with a couple of them that I recognise.

I have nothing but good experiences with them (well, the bad one was very, very minor). I've a strong interest in the service and would love to pursue it as a career (and intend on joining the reserves in the next year or two).

However, just because I like a service, doesn't mean I can't/won't pull it up on it's bad points. And I genuinely felt that Monday was absolutely shoddy from the word go. There seemingly was absolutely no communication between Gardaí or stations and a complete lack of interest was displayed to me in two of three emergency calls (the first call to Drogheda was promising, and that Garda seemed to be on the ball, to be fair to him. No idea who he was, but I'd absolutely hold nothing negative against him. Seemed like he actually wanted to help).

seavill wrote: »

Get a life for yourself and stop trying to make hassle

Are you for real? Trying to make hassle? By calling the Gardaí to arrest a criminal? That's hassle?

Am I in some parallel universe or something here? I followed a wanted man for the guts of a half an hour, whilst on an emergency call to two different stations, listening to how each of them think the other should be the one dealing with it, and I'm somehow the bad guy?

Will you get a grip. :rolleyes:

I certainly hope that's not the attitude in my local station!

jimb43 · 19-10-2013 12:57AM

Seaville, you knocked it on the head lol kkv you need to get a life, cos one day you will meet a real criminal and he will knock your teeth down your throat.( ha ha ) stop playing robo cop, but credit where its due

I havent laughed so much in all my life, i can just picture you now flying round drogheda, " SMOKIE 1" , bandit turning left into crook avenue, gone through a red light on villain lane, hang on he's ditched it in swag street "shall i follow on foot?" LOST SIGHT OF BANDIT hilarious man, respect to you hahahahahaha, Stop doing smokie and the bandit round drogheda, get some credit on your phone , keep to photography, you will never make a garda, your just dreaming. i saw you dressed in a garda uniform. Your just a clown , and a wannabe , stick to taking photos of kids, by the way what did the criminal do, that should be interesting ?? keep me posted smokie, let me know when your next on duty. " OVER AND OUT "

Ps the Garda decided to chase it up after half hour cos they thought , a member of the public ( Joe Soap ) might have been tied up and put in a wheelie bin somewhere ( LOL ) and needed assistance, coz his radio went down and he had no credit on his phone !! you should be thanking them for wanting to help you not calling them negligent/or incompetent. good night officer Soap.

catastrophy · 19-10-2013 02:00AM

Fair play to ya op for showing some civic responsibility, but I have to point out to you that your interpretation of the situation may have differed from the reality of what was happening.

Can I ask how your so sure that the man in question was wanted at the time ... Perhaps he was on the way home from being dealt with?

19-10-2013 08:17AM

jimb43 wrote: »

Seaville, you knocked it on the head lol kkv you need to get a life, cos one day you will meet a real criminal and he will knock your teeth down your throat.( ha ha ) stop playing robo cop, but credit where its due

I havent laughed so much in all my life, i can just picture you now flying round drogheda, " SMOKIE 1" , bandit turning left into crook avenue, gone through a red light on villain lane, hang on he's ditched it in swag street "shall i follow on foot?" LOST SIGHT OF BANDIT hilarious man, respect to you hahahahahaha, Stop doing smokie and the bandit round drogheda, get some credit on your phone , keep to photography, you will never make a garda, your just dreaming. i saw you dressed in a garda uniform. Your just a clown , and a wannabe , stick to taking photos of kids, by the way what did the criminal do, that should be interesting ?? keep me posted smokie, let me know when your next on duty. " OVER AND OUT "

Ps the Garda decided to chase it up after half hour cos they thought , a member of the public ( Joe Soap ) might have been tied up and put in a wheelie bin somewhere ( LOL ) and needed assistance, coz his radio went down and he had no credit on his phone !! you should be thanking them for wanting to help you not calling them negligent/or incompetent. good night officer Soap.

:rolleyes:

catastrophy wrote: »

Fair play to ya op for showing some civic responsibility, but I have to point out to you that your interpretation of the situation may have differed from the reality of what was happening.

Can I ask how your so sure that the man in question was wanted at the time ... Perhaps he was on the way home from being dealt with?

See, I don't really want to say as I'm not sure if it's the kinda thing that could potentially hinder AGS if they decided to follow up at a later date (and I'm sure at some point they eventually will).

seavill · 19-10-2013 09:33AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I do understand that Garda cars can be tied up with several different events occurring at once. This is perfectly understandable. I'm also aware that the Gardai, for several years in a row, have faced cutbacks and no recruitment.

I'm fairly clued in to the plight of the average Garda. I accept that they do a pretty horrible job, in very tough conditions and often will receive verbal and even physical abuse in their role.

I'd spend a fair bit of time around Gardaí and I'd see them dealing with different bits and bobs. I've expressed my understanding and appreciation for them many a time on boards.

I'd know a fair few from the local station to say hello to and every now and again would stop and have a short laugh with a couple of them that I recognise.

I have nothing but good experiences with them (well, the bad one was very, very minor). I've a strong interest in the service and would love to pursue it as a career (and intend on joining the reserves in the next year or two).

However, just because I like a service, doesn't mean I can't/won't pull it up on it's bad points. And I genuinely felt that Monday was absolutely shoddy from the word go. There seemingly was absolutely no communication between Gardaí or stations and a complete lack of interest was displayed to me in two of three emergency calls (the first call to Drogheda was promising, and that Garda seemed to be on the ball, to be fair to him. No idea who he was, but I'd absolutely hold nothing negative against him. Seemed like he actually wanted to help).

Are you for real? Trying to make hassle? By calling the Gardaí to arrest a criminal? That's hassle?

Am I in some parallel universe or something here? I followed a wanted man for the guts of a half an hour, whilst on an emergency call to two different stations, listening to how each of them think the other should be the one dealing with it, and I'm somehow the bad guy?

Will you get a grip. :rolleyes:

I certainly hope that's not the attitude in my local station!

You used a great word there in the first part "seemingly" in other words you have made up in your head what happened and you are going with that. Like I tried to make the point in my response you have no idea what is going on at that time. Maybe they did everything they could. You have no idea.

Yes cause hassle. You just mentioned making a complaint about the issue to the local station. What is that if not causing hassle as well as coming on here to tell your story to try get everyone to tell you what a hero you are.

Like the others have said fair play for making the effort but now leave it at that. It's what appears in your head to be shoddy but you have no idea what actually happened. If you want to play cops that much join up at the next recruitment shortly. Other than that grow up.

Maybe when you join you will get some actual perspective on real life.

19-10-2013 11:20AM

seavill wrote: »

You used a great word there in the first part "seemingly" in other words you have made up in your head what happened and you are going with that. Like I tried to make the point in my response you have no idea what is going on at that time. Maybe they did everything they could. You have no idea.

Yes cause hassle. You just mentioned making a complaint about the issue to the local station. What is that if not causing hassle as well as coming on here to tell your story to try get everyone to tell you what a hero you are.

Like the others have said fair play for making the effort but now leave it at that. It's what appears in your head to be shoddy but you have no idea what actually happened. If you want to play cops that much join up at the next recruitment shortly. Other than that grow up.

Maybe when you join you will get some actual perspective on real life.

Based on the story in my OP; How would you rate the Garda service out of 10?

seavill · 19-10-2013 11:27AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Based on the story in my OP; How would you rate the Garda service out of 10?

Based on your story I could not give an accurate assessment cause we don't have all the facts. We have your side of the story and all your presumptions.

If you do want to make it in the Garda I'd take this as lesson one don't jump to conclusions without all the facts. A good solicitor or judge would love to see you coming if that is how you would investigate crimes

19-10-2013 12:05PM

seavill wrote: »

We have your side of the story

And that's all I am asking you to base your rating on..

seavill · 19-10-2013 12:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And that's all I am asking you to base your rating on..

If/when u become a member of the Garda reserve or full and you meet a bad guy who says "I didn't do it" do you just go with that seen as you havnt heard the other side.

You are getting silly now to make your point

19-10-2013 12:24PM

seavill wrote: »

If/when u become a member of the Garda reserve or full and you meet a bad guy who says "I didn't do it" do you just go with that seen as you havnt heard the other side.

You are getting silly now to make your point

I've made my point long ago. The service provided was piss poor. Taking the guts of 40 minutes to get a car and listening to two different stations passing the buck is not what I'd call a good service. Calling it subpar would be complimentary.

Meanwhile you're posting about me joining the Gardai, arresting people on the streets, talking about the numbers of Gardai stationed at night time (when im talking about 1pm on a Monday), etc. in my honest opinion, nonsense that doesn't relate to what I'm posting about.

Whether I loved or hated the Gardai, whether i wanted to join them or bomb them; I don't see what bearing it would have on my experience on Monday. Surely it would be reasonable to expect that someone who likes the service would also be more willing to overlook the negative aspects in their inolvements (whereas I'm pulling them up on it).

My thread title was a genuine question. My initial feeling (and remaining feeling) is that the outcome of monday was a mixture of both lacking resources and incompetence. Both of which need to be addressed.

I'm aware we will all have our differences of opinion, but I don't think anyone could compliment the Garda service based on my experience.

seavill · 19-10-2013 12:47PM

I don't remember seeing 1pm Monday on your op anywhere. Apologies if I missed it. Feel free to point it out.

Apart from that. I can do no more. I quoted lack of resources but you give out then you mention it.

No one not even you can make a proper judgement as you don't know the full story. And despite the bit you ignored you did want to make a complaint. Based on your side it looks a bit mad but the vital bit you missed was you don't actually know what happened behind the scenes. Myself and others have tried to point this out to you over 4 pages but you still don't get it. Maybe a career in the Garda is not for you after all.

I bow out here as you won't listen to logic. You know where the ombudsman is if you want him. Best of luck

Reati · 19-10-2013 12:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Story snipped for shortness

You should have rang Joe Duffy - Would have got a better response.

19-10-2013 12:57PM

seavill wrote: »

I don't remember seeing 1pm Monday on your op anywhere. Apologies if I missed it. Feel free to point it out.

Apart from that. I can do no more. I quoted lack of resources but you give out then you mention it.

No one not even you can make a proper judgement as you don't know the full story. And despite the bit you ignored you did want to make a complaint. Based on your side it looks a bit mad but the vital bit you missed was you don't actually know what happened behind the scenes. Myself and others have tried to point this out to you over 4 pages but you still don't get it. Maybe a career in the Garda is not for you after all.

I bow out here as you won't listen to logic. You know where the ombudsman is if you want him. Best of luck

Re-reading my OP, I mentioned i was on my lunch break from work, but that could be anytime, so in fairness, that was my fault. I thought I had included it in the OP but evidently I missed it. My fault. Sorry about that.

I'd have assumed a formal complaint would be a good thing in the grand scheme of things, no? Prior to a recruitment intake, a member of the public complaining about a lack of resources for a particular station would surely mean that the station would be looked upon when it comes to distributing the new members of the force? Or am i being hopelessly optimistic?

(as an aside, i have acknowledged that i realise the cars could be tied up in other things, but if thats the case why tell me to keep following, and why tell me that other stations should be dealing with it, etc.? It's not very consistent).

jimb43 · 19-10-2013 12:59PM

I have an uncle who is in the gards in dublin , he was telling me only recently that some egit was running around behind some criminal they were doing special observations on and he nearly blew there cover, and messed a 2 year operation up. the guy went to cover for a week and the gards thought it was all over. " Close call" , he said and" he was lucky he didnt get to involved as he would have probably got shot." this guy was a man you don't mess with" , So look KKV all jokes aside now and on a serious point, stop thinking your a garda, don't do **** like that , you really might get hurt !! there are some naughty people about in Dublin. have a nice day and dont take it to heart me having a laughton you last night, it s all humour. take care now

goldie fish · 19-10-2013 01:44PM

There are possibly hundreds of people in each division who have warrants for their arrest. They are "wanted". Operational decisions are made to execute said warrants at the time and place of the Gardaí's discretion, not the public or anyone else.

And so it should remain.
This way the Gardaí will have the upper hand, not the target.

unichall · 19-10-2013 02:32PM

KKV maybe you should give an insight to the background of the story as to what the guy was wanted for i.e a warrant, a crime etc etc and then we might be able to tell you if its serious incompetence or not. For example if the guy was wanted for murder then shame on the guards but if for something more trivial maybe not so much. You are asking us to make a comment without all the information that you have and therefore it is hard for anyone to see it from your point of view.

I know you said it might jeopardise future proceedings against this guy but if you are aware of this information I assume it is already in the public domain in which case I dont see how it could unless this guy is responsible for a crime against you?

19-10-2013 03:44PM

unichall wrote: »

unless this guy is responsible for a crime against you?

In a roundabout kind of way, this is the crux of it, but he would be responsible for other crimes too (one of which I'd believe was a news piece recently, and would be more serious than the crime involving myself).

He was also committing a crime as I pursued him, too (i'll leave it to your imagination). A crime which, in itself, would be reason for arrest and great suspicion, and would also lead the average person to believe there's another crime coming up shortly.

unichall · 19-10-2013 07:37PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In a roundabout kind of way, this is the crux of it, but he would be responsible for other crimes too (one of which I'd believe was a news piece recently, and would be more serious than the crime involving myself).

He was also committing a crime as I pursued him, too (i'll leave it to your imagination). A crime which, in itself, would be reason for arrest and great suspicion, and would also lead the average person to believe there's another crime coming up shortly.

I suppose since this crime was committed against you, albeit one of many crimes he has committed, you have a personal and emotional interest in this case and therefore I can see why you feel things weren't done quick enough or right and its not easy to hear that not much wasdone wrong or out of thw ordinary. I sympathise with your position and I hope you get the conclusion and the closure you want with regard to this soon

19-10-2013 10:30PM

unichall wrote: »

I suppose since this crime was committed against you, albeit one of many crimes he has committed, you have a personal and emotional interest in this case and therefore I can see why you feel things weren't done quick enough or right and its not easy to hear that not much wasdone wrong or out of thw ordinary. I sympathise with your position and I hope you get the conclusion and the closure you want with regard to this soon

I won't be following up on it with the Gardaí, to be honest. I think I am going to start on the formal route of annoying the life and soul out of every TD week in and week out using the words 'Garda resources' over and over again until everyone's sick to the teeth of hearing it off me.

Seems the only approach that might be worthwhile taking (if you'd even call it worthwhile.. I doubt it will be).

Think it's the only thing the everyday joe soap can do?

seavill · 19-10-2013 10:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

until everyone's sick to the teeth of hearing it off me.

haha sorry I couldnt resist

Garda - Lack of resources or sheer incompetence?!

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