Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

bumper234 · 17-10-2013 08:04PM

mfceiling wrote: »

I have no name just a number plate to report...

Doubt very much that joan's people will go in to halting sites looking for welfare fraud.

So you don't know the person but you know they work and sign on and all this because they park next to you every day for years?

bumper234 · 17-10-2013 08:06PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

No they do not.

You simply ask "Am I under arrest?" They will say "no". You simply leave.

Yeah ok please video yourself doing that and post it up for us to see (laugh at).

TeddyTedson · 17-10-2013 08:07PM

A really stupid idea and it won't work.
Try again.

Fred Swanson · 17-10-2013 08:08PM

This post has been deleted.

Hitchens · 17-10-2013 08:10PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

"anything you say may be taken down, suitably altered, and used in evidence against you"

Gatling · 17-10-2013 08:10PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I certainly would and that evidence would be then used at the civil case for false imprisonment.

I have used that line a few times with some jackboots of the state. Each time they backed down.

Oh god going to buy some tinfoil this thread is turning a little love/hate for my liking

Gatling · 17-10-2013 08:10PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I certainly would and that evidence would be then used at the civil case for false imprisonment.

I have used that line a few times with some jackboots of the state. Each time they backed down.

Oh god going to buy some tinfoil this thread is turning a little love/hate for my liking

SCOOP 64 · 17-10-2013 08:11PM

bumper234 wrote: »

So it's ok in your book to tar them all with the same brush? Do you know many travelers? I know 4 brothers who work construction a few years ago, paid their taxes just like everyone else. Now they all have qualifications in IT yet they can't get an interview as soon as people hear their accents its a no no. But hey they are travelers and therefore must be sponging off the state right.

Couldn't they take elocution lessons?

Fred Swanson · 17-10-2013 08:12PM

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RustyNut · 17-10-2013 08:18PM

bumper234 wrote: »

And they have EVERY right to delay you until you do.

Would you link to the legislation that gives them the power of indefinite detention untill you answer questions?

HighClass · 17-10-2013 08:21PM

It's worrying how many people in this thread don't seem to care about having their basic right to go somewhere without being stopped and questioned taken away, but I suppose most of them don't live on an estate so they don't care what's enforced on them. Another case of the rich telling the middle class to blame the poor.

B.A._Baracus · 17-10-2013 08:34PM

HighClass wrote: »

It's worrying how many people in this thread don't seem to care about having their basic right to go somewhere without being stopped and questioned taken away, but I suppose most of them don't live on an estate so they don't care what's enforced on them. Another case of the rich telling the middle class to blame the poor.

I know dude it's wrong. Personal freedoms and all that.

See the guards are just going to stop everyone at the checkpoint. Doesnt matter if you are on your way to work, dropping off little johnny to school or going to the doctors. You're gonna get stopped either way.

And if all these supporters were getting stopped regularly they'd get such a pain in their hole and suddenly change their view. There is alot of sh*t-talk on here anyways. Some people think 99.9% of people on the dole have 40 hour jobs on the side.

munwin · 17-10-2013 08:54PM

It won't happen at all. Wait and see. Its just scare mongering.

Phoebas · 17-10-2013 09:35PM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

A really stupid idea and it won't work.
Try again.

I thought they were just extending an existing practice because they've had success with it.

Phoebas · 17-10-2013 09:44PM

munwin wrote: »

It won't happen at all. Wait and see. Its just scare mongering.

It already happens with DSP and Revenue staff and has proved a success. Adding Garda powers to the mix should make it even more successful.

Up until June, the SIU launched 24 multi-agency vehicle checkpoints, in which 37 dole cheats were caught saving €250,000.

At a checkpoint targeting HGV drivers in the Mid-West, three drivers were caught working and signing on. One had been on invalidity pension since 2009 and was getting paid for spouse and children at €420 weekly, while another was on jobseekers benefit while driving for a haulage company in Co Meath. Their employers were also contacted by Revenue. Welfare fraud investigators have delivered a number of recent successes at airports in the courts, including:

* In Monaghan Circuit Court in June, a Latvian man was convicted of flying into Ireland twice a month to collect two separate payments, even though he had not been living here for almost two years;

* In March, a man who claimed social welfare while living in Poland was fined €1,500 at Tralee District Court. All monies owed were paid back;

* In Fermoy District Court, a Zimbabwean was given a 10-month suspended sentence and required to leave the jurisdiction before paying back over €4,000;

* In April, an Irishwoman received a three-year suspended term after it was revealed she flew from London once a month for four years to claim €43,000 in jobseekers allowance.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1017/world/pursuit-of-dole-cheats-reinforced-by-arrest-powers-246576.html

tayto lover · 17-10-2013 09:49PM

Phoebas wrote: »

It already happens with DSP and Revenue staff and has proved a success. Adding Garda powers to the mix should make it even more successful.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1017/world/pursuit-of-dole-cheats-reinforced-by-arrest-powers-246576.html

That's great but how many of them were detected on checkpoints?
There have been checkpoints going on in the border area of North Louth for years and very few if any detections have been made yet i have no doubt that this is one of the worst areas in Ireland for dole fraud.

mfceiling · 17-10-2013 09:54PM

bumper234 wrote: »

So you don't know the person but you know they work and sign on and all this because they park next to you every day for years?

I know he doesn't work - he's told me himself that he doesn't work. As cool as you like one morning at the school...

Him "are you not working today?"

Me "heading now, when i leave the young one in - what about yourself?"

Him "working is for fools" (laughs)

Phoebas · 17-10-2013 09:55PM

tayto lover wrote: »

That's great but how many of them were detected on checkpoints?

37 according to the article.

I expect these types of operations are part direct enforcement and part deterrent. Just like highly visible checkpoints deter drink driving, I guess these are aimed at deterring welfare fraud.

tayto lover · 17-10-2013 09:57PM

Phoebas wrote: »

37 according to the article.

I expect these types of operations are part direct enforcement and part deterrent. Just like highly visible checkpoints deter drink driving, I guess these are aimed at deterring welfare fraud.

Where money is concerned there are few deterrents unfortunately.
37 in about 10 years is also wasting money.
Also the diesel launderers in the border areas are plying their trade and dumping toxic waste with impunity.

MajorMax · 17-10-2013 10:01PM

Yawns wrote: »

Afaik you'll only be required to give your name etc to a guard and unless he has suspicions that you committed an offence, he cannot detain you. You don't need to talk with the social worker at all. If you are claiming tho and they find out, they can suspend your claim if they suspect you are going to work and call you in for interviews etc in the office. Failure to attend interviews can lead to claims being closed.

You don't need to talk to a Guard either. He can ask you for your name and address, in fact he can ask you any question he likes, but unless he has a legitimate suspicion you've committed an offence, you don't have to answer him

Phoebas · 17-10-2013 10:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Where money is concerned there are few deterrents unfortunately.
37 in about 10 years is also wasting money.

24 checkpoints with a saving of €250k - that's just over €10k per checkpoint. I presume each checkpoint costs three or four people a day to operate.

Why is that a waste of money?

tayto lover · 17-10-2013 10:34PM

Phoebas wrote: »

24 checkpoints with a saving of €250k - that's just over €10k per checkpoint. I presume each checkpoint costs three or four people a day to operate.

Why is that a waste of money?

If true then that would be great.
Pity they couldn't nick a few diesel launderers / waste dumpers while their at it though. I'm very suspicious as to the reason they are drawing blanks in that area.

K-9 · 17-10-2013 11:03PM

HighClass wrote: »

It's worrying how many people in this thread don't seem to care about having their basic right to go somewhere without being stopped and questioned taken away, but I suppose most of them don't live on an estate so they don't care what's enforced on them. Another case of the rich telling the middle class to blame the poor.

Well I'm sure they do envisage an estate, just not on an industrial or housing one.

Downton Abbey or To the Manor Born is what they picture when they imagine estates.

skafish · 18-10-2013 01:49AM

MajorMax wrote: »

You don't need to talk to a Guard either. He can ask you for your name and address, in fact he can ask you any question he likes, but unless he has a legitimate suspicion you've committed an offence, you don't have to answer him

Wrong. At any stage, a Guard can ask you for your name and address. If you refuse to answer, the Guard can detain you without a warrant or court order for up to 48 hours or until your identity is established.
The can also ask the driver of any vehicle to produce their license on the spot. If the driver doesn't, the vehicle can be impounded and the driver detained until their identity is established, along with proof that their have a license to drive said vehicle.

Fred Swanson · 18-10-2013 01:55AM

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B.A._Baracus · 18-10-2013 02:33AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I wouldnt just say moralistic, fred.
I would also add some twisted hatred for people on the dole. But hypocrissy when we dig deeper.

It doesnt matter if someone is working or on the social welfare. Either party would gladly do a nixer to earn some extra money. Thats the messed up thing about this issue.... it's all shite :pac: It's all moaning about what someone else is getting, which you are not getting, there for is wrong :pac:

roughneck · 18-10-2013 04:42AM

i dont think their out to catch the lads or girls doin nixers ,their after the ful time crew driving big cars ,living in big houses and staring on channel 4 everyweek ,god bless ya boss .

18-10-2013 08:44AM

Little bit of harassment hurt nobody.

Sunnyisland · 18-10-2013 09:06AM

roughneck wrote: »

i dont think their out to catch the lads or girls doin nixers ,their after the ful time crew driving big cars ,living in big houses and staring on channel 4 everyweek ,god bless ya boss .

They are out to catch anyone who is defrauding the state, anyone driving commercial transport is liable to be stopped and asked name address and if need be SW officials shall be called over and they will be then asked for Prsi number for further checks,as far as I know they don't stop private cars.

RustyNut · 18-10-2013 09:09AM

skafish wrote: »

Wrong. At any stage, a Guard can ask you for your name and address. If you refuse to answer, the Guard can detain you without a warrant or court order for up to 48 hours or until your identity is established.
The can also ask the driver of any vehicle to produce their license on the spot. If the driver doesn't, the vehicle can be impounded and the driver detained until their identity is established, along with proof that their have a license to drive said vehicle.

You need to educate yourself about your rights, someday you might have need of them.

http://www.iccl.ie/being-stopped-by-a-garda-2.html

Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

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