Garda killers freed from prison

joeguevara · 14-10-2013 03:05PM

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Yes and no, as I wrote in my other post, in theory it's a mandatory life sentence but Malcom MacArthur is the only one who has been given it recently to the best of my knowledge and he was actually released last year.

The sentencing of every person convicted of murder (think O'Reilly, one of the scissor sisters etc) was given life. Judges do not have discretion. Is it then up to parole board etc to determine how much is served.

Holsten · 14-10-2013 03:11PM

What's the point of this thread?

People get released from prison after severing their sentence... this is news?

FTA69 · 14-10-2013 03:11PM

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/once-in-never-out-interview-with-paddy-maccann/

Here's an interview with one of them. He sounds like an absolute crackpot and fantasist.

By the 1980s those in Saor Éire were often a bit unstable, or as someone I know who was in jail with them once said: "a bunch of f*cking mavericks."

miller50841 · 14-10-2013 03:12PM

The people of Ireland and the whole system of how Ireland is ran is quite simply soft.

If you shoot at the Police in the US you would get 30 years for attempted murder.

I am actually very surprised they are still behind bars and sure what will they be like when they get out, does anyone believe they will be model citizens.

Prison should be made into hard time not the holiday homes they are now as the prisoners have more rights then any of us normal folk working are butts off to get by.

At a minimum all Gardai should have tasers and more armed not saying all but maybe it will be something that will have to take place in many years to come.

I am also surprised with the UK police force being mostly unarmed and see them having to change that.

R.I.P to all who have fallen to thugs, scum, robbers etc...

UCDVet · 14-10-2013 03:13PM

I'm cold and heartless but....I have to say, I'd sleep better if they were hung. But it's good to know we've paid their food and shelter for 30 years.

3rdDegree · 14-10-2013 03:19PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's a dangerous road to go down. Have you seen the film Minority Report?

Yep, based on a true story too!

padd b1975 · 14-10-2013 03:19PM

FTA69 wrote: »

They weren't Provisional IRA members.

We'll that's one thing they have in common with Adams.....

NoCrackHaving · 14-10-2013 03:20PM

miller50841 wrote: »

The people of Ireland and the whole system of how Ireland is ran is quite simply soft.

If you shoot at the Police in the US you would get 30 years for attempted murder.

I am actually very surprised they are still behind bars and sure what will they be like when they get out, does anyone believe they will be model citizens.

Prison should be made into hard time not the holiday homes they are now as the prisoners have more rights then any of us normal folk working are butts off to get by.

At a minimum all Gardai should have tasers and more armed not saying all but maybe it will be something that will have to take place in many years to come.

I am also surprised with the UK police force being mostly unarmed and see them having to change that.

R.I.P to all who have fallen to thugs, scum, robbers etc...

Gardai don't want to be armed themselves. Generally the Armed Support Unit can be at the scene within 10 minutes which makes armed Gardai unneccessary. Being completely honest, some of the morons I know in the guards couldn't be trusted with a gun in my opinion.

Gee Bag · 14-10-2013 03:22PM

joeguevara wrote: »

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.

I'm pretty sure the average sentence for life is 25 years and the avergae time served is 17 years with time off for good behaviour.

Edit-Just realised I put mandatory rather than average in my original post, my bad!

With regards to conviction of murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or on duty prison officer, this is a commutation.

This changed when the death penalty was abolished (1990 I think). A conviction gets a minimum sentence of 40 years with time off for good behaviour.

Cases are reviewed by the parole board and release is approved by the minister for Justice.

irelandrover · 14-10-2013 03:24PM

miller50841 wrote: »

The people of Ireland and the whole system of how Ireland is ran is quite simply soft.

If you shoot at the Police in the US you would get 30 years for attempted murder.

I am actually very surprised they are still behind bars and sure what will they be like when they get out, does anyone believe they will be model citizens.

Prison should be made into hard time not the holiday homes they are now as the prisoners have more rights then any of us normal folk working are butts off to get by.

At a minimum all Gardai should have tasers and more armed not saying all but maybe it will be something that will have to take place in many years to come.

I am also surprised with the UK police force being mostly unarmed and see them having to change that.

R.I.P to all who have fallen to thugs, scum, robbers etc...

What rights do prisoners have that you don't have?

joeguevara · 14-10-2013 03:24PM

Gee Bag wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the average sentence for life is 25 years and the avergae time served is 17 years with time off for good behaviour.

You are right about the time served, but if a jury finds somebody guilty of murder, all a judge can give him/her is a life sentence. It is not like the UK where it is a life sentence and a minimum 25 years. A judge will not put a tariff on it.

donvito99 · 14-10-2013 03:28PM

irelandrover wrote: »

What rights do prisoners have that you don't have?

Liberty, for one.

Jester252 · 14-10-2013 03:29PM

I'm more shocked that Ireland had a death penalty in the 1980s and by hanging to top it off.

Gee Bag · 14-10-2013 03:29PM

joeguevara wrote: »

You are right about the time served, but if a jury finds somebody guilty of murder, all a judge can give him/her is a life sentence. It is not like the UK where it is a life sentence and a minimum 25 years. A judge will not put a tariff on it.

Your right, In my original post I should have said average rather than mandatory.

miller50841 · 14-10-2013 03:30PM

irelandrover wrote: »

What rights do prisoners have that you don't have?

Free health care for starters
I'll list a few for you so you understand....
1 free food
2 free electricity
3 free heating
4 free clothing
5 free time
6 lots and lots of activities and so on. I could list more but don't have any free time.....

miller50841 · 14-10-2013 03:31PM

Jester252 wrote: »

I'm more shocked that Ireland had a death penalty in the 1980s and by hanging to top it off.

Should have never been abolished.

expectationlost · 14-10-2013 03:32PM

the outrage journos, firstly that see people spending time in jail somehow as no punishment at all, gilligan in jail for 13 years is no justice to them apparently, or these guys in jail for 30 years. then they ignore the point of remission, i think it pretty important that if you are going to spend decades in jail that theres an incentive to behave while they are in there.

expectationlost · 14-10-2013 03:33PM

miller50841 wrote: »

Free health care for starters
I'll list a few for you so you understand....
1 free food
2 free electricity
3 free heating
4 free clothing
5 free time
6 lots and lots of activities and so on. I could list more but don't have any free time.....

there stuck in one building for decades, why is it that some people don't think that's punishement.

anncoates · 14-10-2013 03:34PM

miller50841 wrote: »

Free health care for starters
I'll list a few for you so you understand....
1 free food
2 free electricity
3 free heating
4 free clothing
5 free time
6 lots and lots of activities and so on. I could list more but don't have any free time.....

So if it's so enjoyable, would you be willing to do 30 years inside?

Gee Bag · 14-10-2013 03:37PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Just out of curiosity do those who abuse their power while representing the state face minimum sentences which are harsher than the norm?

I don't think so, once they act outside the powers granted them by virtue of being a guard they are no longer acting as agents of the state, therefore they are subject to the same criminal law as everyone else.

The sentences for Gardai who assaulted a man in Waterford seem to be about the same as anyone else could expect.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-garda-jailed-over-brutal-waterford-assault-26789820.html

NoCrackHaving · 14-10-2013 03:38PM

miller50841 wrote: »

Should have never been abolished.

Pretty sure it's a pre-requisite of being a Council of Europe and EU member these days.

miller50841 · 14-10-2013 03:43PM

anncoates wrote: »

So if it's so enjoyable, would you be willing to do 30 years inside?

Hold on a second so your saying that's punishment for them well my heart bleeds as I can't find the smallest violin.

They done the crime and as this is about murderers they done the lowest crime of all.

They should be made work and contribute to society and give a little back to the people at the very least.

Also I have a brain so no way would I want to spend 30 years locked behind bars as I would not do what these scum have done.

I work hard for the money so hard for the money...

My name is URL · 14-10-2013 04:08PM

miller50841 wrote: »

They should be made work and contribute to society and give a little back to the people at the very least.

In what way? Isn't releasing them after 30 years the best way to 'make them work and contribute to society'? Or would keeping them locked up for another 30 years; at a cost of €90,000+ per year benefit society more?

People can huff and puff about the death penalty all they want, but it's not going to be reintroduced. We'd be kicked out of the EU in a heartbeat. And that not happening is better for all of us than reintroducing capital punishment only to appease a few hand-wringers.

Crooked Jack · 14-10-2013 04:11PM

FTA69 wrote: »

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/once-in-never-out-interview-with-paddy-maccann/

Here's an interview with one of them. He sounds like an absolute crackpot and fantasist.

By the 1980s those in Saor Éire were often a bit unstable, or as someone I know who was in jail with them once said: "a bunch of f*cking mavericks."

That was fucking bizarre. I couldn't stop reading it.

JillyQ · 14-10-2013 04:15PM

anncoates wrote: »

To be fair, 30 years is a long enough stretch to do for murder.

30 years is no where near close to long enough.

Guy:Incognito · 14-10-2013 04:20PM

expectationlost wrote: »

the outrage journos, firstly that see people spending time in jail somehow as no punishment at all, gilligan in jail for 13 years is no justice to them apparently, or these guys in jail for 30 years. then they ignore the point of remission, i think it pretty important that if you are going to spend decades in jail that theres an incentive to behave while they are in there.

The incentive should be that you get out when your time is up. Misbehave and you get time added on, behave and you only serve what ypu were sentenced to.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 14-10-2013 04:21PM

miller50841 wrote: »

Free health care for starters
I'll list a few for you so you understand....
1 free food
2 free electricity
3 free heating
4 free clothing
5 free time
6 lots and lots of activities and so on. I could list more but don't have any free time.....

Lots and lots of good honest and hard manly man on man sex.

May not be a benefit if you're not into man sex

Guy:Incognito · 14-10-2013 04:24PM

Also, just on the interview linked above. Political prisoners my hole. They murdered 2 gardai while robbing a bank.

Nodin · 14-10-2013 04:25PM

c_man wrote: »

No Sinn Fein TD picking them up from prison?

Paddb1975 wrote:

We'll that's one thing they have in common with Adams.....

...they've nothing to do with Sinn Fein.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 14-10-2013 04:29PM

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

To be fair, they were given a sentence of 40 years and under the law were entitled to be released after 30. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it is what it is.

As far as I'm aware Malcom MacArthur was the only person in recent Irish history to ever be given a 'whole life' tariff and he didn't even serve all that.

Whole of life tariffs do not exist under Irish law.
McArthur was sentenced for murder to a single term of life imprisonment.
There are others who have served longer, most notably John Shaw.

Garda killers freed from prison

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