Garda killers freed from prison

Hitchens

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-garda-killers-who-faced-death-penalty-have-been-freed-from-prison-29657572.html

They might make into the Seanad yet :rolleyes:

princess-lala

30 years in prison!

They've served their time!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

surely they served 3/4 of their time

Hitchens

princess-lala wrote: »

30 years in prison!

They've served their time!

Tie a ribbon round the old oak tree

electrobanana

If that happened these days they'd probably only have gotten 10 years:rolleyes:

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Hitchens wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-garda-killers-who-faced-death-penalty-have-been-freed-from-prison-29657572.html

They might make into the Seanad yet :rolleyes:

And they weren't even Muslims! How disappointing.:rolleyes:

K-9

The death penalty was abolished by referendum and the courts then treated them the same as other murderers.

Having said that, it takes a special type of scum to shoot unarmed Guards.

dave1982

Jesus theres a nice few boyo's out this week

anncoates

To be fair, 30 years is a long enough stretch to do for murder.

Gee Bag

electrobanana wrote: »

If that happened these days they'd probably only have gotten 10 years:rolleyes:

Conviction for the murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or a prisoner officer while they are on duty gets a mandatory sentence of 40 years.

Murder of a civilian gets an average sentence of 25 years.

The reason for the difference is that murder of the former is viewed as an attack on the authority of the state.

A judge has no discretion to give a shorter sentence for murder.

telekon

anncoates wrote: »

To be fair, 30 years is a long enough stretch to do for murder.

Murder someone at 18, out by 48. Plenty of time to raise a family and enjoy life.

Meanwhile the victim is rotting in the ground for eternity with a family still in mourning.

30 years is nowhere near enough.

kupus

electrobanana wrote: »

If that happened these days they'd probably only have gotten 10 years:rolleyes:

And be out after 5 on humanitarian grounds

anncoates

telekon wrote: »

Murder someone at 18, out by 48. Plenty of time to raise a family and enjoy life.

Meanwhile the victim is rotting in the ground for eternity with a family still in mourning.

30 years is nowhere near enough.

Did you read what I wrote?

I wasn't making a moral statement, just that by today's standards, it's a long enough stretch to do, presumably because of the Garda dimension.

I was glad to be of service for facilitating your Daily Mail grandstanding though.

Amirani

telekon wrote: »

Murder someone at 18, out by 48. Plenty of time to raise a family and enjoy life.

Meanwhile the victim is rotting in the ground for eternity with a family still in mourning.

30 years is nowhere near enough.

Even if they no longer pose a threat to society?

telekon

anncoates wrote: »

Did you read what I wrote?

I wasn't making a moral statement, just that by today's standards, it's a long enough stretch to do, presumably because of the Garda dimension.

I was glad to be of service for facilitating your Daily Mail grandstanding though.

Wasnt an attack on your post, just the fact that 30 years is seen as a 'tough' sentence for murder. It should be the very minimum at least.

NiallSparky wrote: »

Even if they no longer pose a threat to society?

How on earth do you even start to prove that?

c_man

No Sinn Fein TD picking them up from prison?

anncoates

telekon wrote: »

How on earth do you even start to prove that?

With the same degree of difficulty that you can prove they are a threat i presume

Guy:Incognito

anncoates wrote: »

To be fair, 30 years is a long enough stretch to do for murder.

It was 2 murders though so in effect 15 for each. Id say most people would want someone to serve more than 15 years for murdering one of their family.

This time off for good behaviour ****e should bedone away with too. Surely not acting the bollocks in prison is the very minimum expected of you?

donvito99

Life should mean life, think of the families of these Gardai, one of them lay wounded on the road, and was then shot again, dead.

Rehabilitative justice should not be reserved for these capital murderers. Make examples of them.

Guy:Incognito

anncoates wrote: »

With the same degree of difficulty that you can prove they are a threat i presume

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

donvito99

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

We can also be sure that incarcerating them for life would deny them a chance to pose a threat to society.

pauliebdub

Personally i think they should never be freed and should rot in a cell without any hope for the rest of their lives. Their victims didnt get any second chance did they?

joeguevara

Gee Bag wrote: »

Conviction for the murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or a prisoner officer while they are on duty gets a mandatory sentence of 40 years.

Murder of a civilian gets a mandatory sentence of 25 years.

The reason for the difference is that murder of the former is viewed as an attack on the authority of the state.

A judge has no discretion to give a shorter sentence for murder.

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.

With regards to conviction of murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or on duty prison officer, this is a commutation.

Turtyturd

Gee Bag wrote: »

Conviction for the murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or a prisoner officer while they are on duty gets a mandatory sentence of 40 years.

Murder of a civilian gets a mandatory sentence of 25 years.

The reason for the difference is that murder of the former is viewed as an attack on the authority of the state.

A judge has no discretion to give a shorter sentence for murder.

Just out of curiosity do those who abuse their power while representing the state face minimum sentences which are harsher than the norm?

donvito99

Turtyturd wrote: »

Just out of curiosity do those who abuse their power while representing the state face minimum sentences which are harsher than the norm?

I don't think so, but from a civil law side they probably would.

FTA69

c_man wrote: »

No Sinn Fein TD picking them up from prison?

They weren't Provisional IRA members.

NoCrackHaving

To be fair, they were given a sentence of 40 years and under the law were entitled to be released after 30. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it is what it is.

As far as I'm aware Malcom MacArthur was the only person in recent Irish history to ever be given a 'whole life' tariff and he didn't even serve all that.

NoCrackHaving

joeguevara wrote: »

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.
.

Yes and no, as I wrote in my other post, in theory it's a mandatory life sentence but Malcom MacArthur is the only one who has been given it recently to the best of my knowledge and he was actually released last year.

kupus

donvito99 wrote: »

Life should mean life, think of the families of these Gardai, one of them lay wounded on the road, and was then shot again, dead.

Rehabilitative justice should not be reserved for these capital murderers. Make examples of them.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

joeguevara wrote: »

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.

With regards to conviction of murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or on duty prison officer, this is a commutation.

pauliebdub wrote: »

Personally i think they should never be freed and should rot in a cell without any hope for the rest of their lives. Their victims didnt get any second chance did they?

anncoates wrote: »

With the same degree of difficulty that you can prove they are a threat i presume

Which is why im in favour of the death penalty for clear cut murder cases, and that goes for accomplices as well. second degree murder conspire to commit murder, bah its murder and should be charge as murder.

anncoates

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

Actually I was under the impression that recidivism rates are relatively low for people that are convicted and serve long prison sentences for serious crimes.

That's just in relation to what we're discussing - the likelihood of actually killing again, as opposed to how wrong the crime was.

Amirani

donvito99 wrote: »

We can also be sure that incarcerating them for life would deny them a chance to pose a threat to society.

That's a dangerous road to go down. Have you seen the film Minority Report?

joeguevara

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Yes and no, as I wrote in my other post, in theory it's a mandatory life sentence but Malcom MacArthur is the only one who has been given it recently to the best of my knowledge and he was actually released last year.

The sentencing of every person convicted of murder (think O'Reilly, one of the scissor sisters etc) was given life. Judges do not have discretion. Is it then up to parole board etc to determine how much is served.

Holsten

What's the point of this thread?

People get released from prison after severing their sentence... this is news?

FTA69

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/once-in-never-out-interview-with-paddy-maccann/

Here's an interview with one of them. He sounds like an absolute crackpot and fantasist.

By the 1980s those in Saor Éire were often a bit unstable, or as someone I know who was in jail with them once said: "a bunch of f*cking mavericks."

miller50841

The people of Ireland and the whole system of how Ireland is ran is quite simply soft.

If you shoot at the Police in the US you would get 30 years for attempted murder.

I am actually very surprised they are still behind bars and sure what will they be like when they get out, does anyone believe they will be model citizens.

Prison should be made into hard time not the holiday homes they are now as the prisoners have more rights then any of us normal folk working are butts off to get by.

At a minimum all Gardai should have tasers and more armed not saying all but maybe it will be something that will have to take place in many years to come.

I am also surprised with the UK police force being mostly unarmed and see them having to change that.

R.I.P to all who have fallen to thugs, scum, robbers etc...

UCDVet

I'm cold and heartless but....I have to say, I'd sleep better if they were hung. But it's good to know we've paid their food and shelter for 30 years.

3rdDegree

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's a dangerous road to go down. Have you seen the film Minority Report?

Yep, based on a true story too!

padd b1975

FTA69 wrote: »

They weren't Provisional IRA members.

We'll that's one thing they have in common with Adams.....

NoCrackHaving

miller50841 wrote: »

The people of Ireland and the whole system of how Ireland is ran is quite simply soft.

If you shoot at the Police in the US you would get 30 years for attempted murder.

I am actually very surprised they are still behind bars and sure what will they be like when they get out, does anyone believe they will be model citizens.

Prison should be made into hard time not the holiday homes they are now as the prisoners have more rights then any of us normal folk working are butts off to get by.

At a minimum all Gardai should have tasers and more armed not saying all but maybe it will be something that will have to take place in many years to come.

I am also surprised with the UK police force being mostly unarmed and see them having to change that.

R.I.P to all who have fallen to thugs, scum, robbers etc...

Gardai don't want to be armed themselves. Generally the Armed Support Unit can be at the scene within 10 minutes which makes armed Gardai unneccessary. Being completely honest, some of the morons I know in the guards couldn't be trusted with a gun in my opinion.

Gee Bag

joeguevara wrote: »

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.

I'm pretty sure the average sentence for life is 25 years and the avergae time served is 17 years with time off for good behaviour.

Edit-Just realised I put mandatory rather than average in my original post, my bad!

With regards to conviction of murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or on duty prison officer, this is a commutation.

This changed when the death penalty was abolished (1990 I think). A conviction gets a minimum sentence of 40 years with time off for good behaviour.

Cases are reviewed by the parole board and release is approved by the minister for Justice.

irelandrover

miller50841 wrote: »

The people of Ireland and the whole system of how Ireland is ran is quite simply soft.

If you shoot at the Police in the US you would get 30 years for attempted murder.

I am actually very surprised they are still behind bars and sure what will they be like when they get out, does anyone believe they will be model citizens.

Prison should be made into hard time not the holiday homes they are now as the prisoners have more rights then any of us normal folk working are butts off to get by.

At a minimum all Gardai should have tasers and more armed not saying all but maybe it will be something that will have to take place in many years to come.

I am also surprised with the UK police force being mostly unarmed and see them having to change that.

R.I.P to all who have fallen to thugs, scum, robbers etc...

What rights do prisoners have that you don't have?

joeguevara

Gee Bag wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the average sentence for life is 25 years and the avergae time served is 17 years with time off for good behaviour.

You are right about the time served, but if a jury finds somebody guilty of murder, all a judge can give him/her is a life sentence. It is not like the UK where it is a life sentence and a minimum 25 years. A judge will not put a tariff on it.

donvito99

irelandrover wrote: »

What rights do prisoners have that you don't have?

Liberty, for one.

Jester252

I'm more shocked that Ireland had a death penalty in the 1980s and by hanging to top it off.

Gee Bag

joeguevara wrote: »

You are right about the time served, but if a jury finds somebody guilty of murder, all a judge can give him/her is a life sentence. It is not like the UK where it is a life sentence and a minimum 25 years. A judge will not put a tariff on it.

Your right, In my original post I should have said average rather than mandatory.

miller50841

irelandrover wrote: »

What rights do prisoners have that you don't have?

Free health care for starters
I'll list a few for you so you understand....
1 free food
2 free electricity
3 free heating
4 free clothing
5 free time
6 lots and lots of activities and so on. I could list more but don't have any free time.....

miller50841

Jester252 wrote: »

I'm more shocked that Ireland had a death penalty in the 1980s and by hanging to top it off.

Should have never been abolished.

expectationlost

the outrage journos, firstly that see people spending time in jail somehow as no punishment at all, gilligan in jail for 13 years is no justice to them apparently, or these guys in jail for 30 years. then they ignore the point of remission, i think it pretty important that if you are going to spend decades in jail that theres an incentive to behave while they are in there.

expectationlost

miller50841 wrote: »

Free health care for starters
I'll list a few for you so you understand....
1 free food
2 free electricity
3 free heating
4 free clothing
5 free time
6 lots and lots of activities and so on. I could list more but don't have any free time.....

there stuck in one building for decades, why is it that some people don't think that's punishement.

anncoates

miller50841 wrote: »

Free health care for starters
I'll list a few for you so you understand....
1 free food
2 free electricity
3 free heating
4 free clothing
5 free time
6 lots and lots of activities and so on. I could list more but don't have any free time.....

So if it's so enjoyable, would you be willing to do 30 years inside?

Gee Bag

Turtyturd wrote: »

Just out of curiosity do those who abuse their power while representing the state face minimum sentences which are harsher than the norm?

I don't think so, once they act outside the powers granted them by virtue of being a guard they are no longer acting as agents of the state, therefore they are subject to the same criminal law as everyone else.

The sentences for Gardai who assaulted a man in Waterford seem to be about the same as anyone else could expect.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-garda-jailed-over-brutal-waterford-assault-26789820.html