Garda killers freed from prison

Hitchens · 14-10-2013 01:21PM #1

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-garda-killers-who-faced-death-penalty-have-been-freed-from-prison-29657572.html

They might make into the Seanad yet :rolleyes:

princess-lala · 14-10-2013 01:23PM

30 years in prison!

They've served their time!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 14-10-2013 01:27PM

surely they served 3/4 of their time

Hitchens · 14-10-2013 01:27PM

princess-lala wrote: »

30 years in prison!

They've served their time!

Tie a ribbon round the old oak tree

electrobanana · 14-10-2013 01:29PM

If that happened these days they'd probably only have gotten 10 years:rolleyes:

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 14-10-2013 02:01PM

Hitchens wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-garda-killers-who-faced-death-penalty-have-been-freed-from-prison-29657572.html

They might make into the Seanad yet :rolleyes:

And they weren't even Muslims! How disappointing.:rolleyes:

K-9 · 14-10-2013 02:15PM

The death penalty was abolished by referendum and the courts then treated them the same as other murderers.

Having said that, it takes a special type of scum to shoot unarmed Guards.

dave1982 · 14-10-2013 02:18PM

Jesus theres a nice few boyo's out this week

anncoates · 14-10-2013 02:22PM

To be fair, 30 years is a long enough stretch to do for murder.

Gee Bag · 14-10-2013 02:29PM

electrobanana wrote: »

If that happened these days they'd probably only have gotten 10 years:rolleyes:

Conviction for the murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or a prisoner officer while they are on duty gets a mandatory sentence of 40 years.

Murder of a civilian gets an average sentence of 25 years.

The reason for the difference is that murder of the former is viewed as an attack on the authority of the state.

A judge has no discretion to give a shorter sentence for murder.

telekon · 14-10-2013 02:32PM

anncoates wrote: »

To be fair, 30 years is a long enough stretch to do for murder.

Murder someone at 18, out by 48. Plenty of time to raise a family and enjoy life.

Meanwhile the victim is rotting in the ground for eternity with a family still in mourning.

30 years is nowhere near enough.

kupus · 14-10-2013 02:34PM

electrobanana wrote: »

If that happened these days they'd probably only have gotten 10 years:rolleyes:

And be out after 5 on humanitarian grounds

anncoates · 14-10-2013 02:36PM

telekon wrote: »

Murder someone at 18, out by 48. Plenty of time to raise a family and enjoy life.

Meanwhile the victim is rotting in the ground for eternity with a family still in mourning.

30 years is nowhere near enough.

Did you read what I wrote?

I wasn't making a moral statement, just that by today's standards, it's a long enough stretch to do, presumably because of the Garda dimension.

I was glad to be of service for facilitating your Daily Mail grandstanding though.

Amirani · 14-10-2013 02:36PM

telekon wrote: »

Murder someone at 18, out by 48. Plenty of time to raise a family and enjoy life.

Meanwhile the victim is rotting in the ground for eternity with a family still in mourning.

30 years is nowhere near enough.

Even if they no longer pose a threat to society?

telekon · 14-10-2013 02:42PM

anncoates wrote: »

Did you read what I wrote?

I wasn't making a moral statement, just that by today's standards, it's a long enough stretch to do, presumably because of the Garda dimension.

I was glad to be of service for facilitating your Daily Mail grandstanding though.

Wasnt an attack on your post, just the fact that 30 years is seen as a 'tough' sentence for murder. It should be the very minimum at least.

NiallSparky wrote: »

Even if they no longer pose a threat to society?

How on earth do you even start to prove that?

c_man · 14-10-2013 02:43PM

No Sinn Fein TD picking them up from prison?

anncoates · 14-10-2013 02:47PM

telekon wrote: »

How on earth do you even start to prove that?

With the same degree of difficulty that you can prove they are a threat i presume

Guy:Incognito · 14-10-2013 02:48PM

anncoates wrote: »

To be fair, 30 years is a long enough stretch to do for murder.

It was 2 murders though so in effect 15 for each. Id say most people would want someone to serve more than 15 years for murdering one of their family.

This time off for good behaviour ****e should bedone away with too. Surely not acting the bollocks in prison is the very minimum expected of you?

donvito99 · 14-10-2013 02:48PM

Life should mean life, think of the families of these Gardai, one of them lay wounded on the road, and was then shot again, dead.

Rehabilitative justice should not be reserved for these capital murderers. Make examples of them.

Guy:Incognito · 14-10-2013 02:50PM

anncoates wrote: »

With the same degree of difficulty that you can prove they are a threat i presume

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

donvito99 · 14-10-2013 02:52PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

We can also be sure that incarcerating them for life would deny them a chance to pose a threat to society.

pauliebdub · 14-10-2013 02:56PM

Personally i think they should never be freed and should rot in a cell without any hope for the rest of their lives. Their victims didnt get any second chance did they?

joeguevara · 14-10-2013 02:57PM

Gee Bag wrote: »

Conviction for the murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or a prisoner officer while they are on duty gets a mandatory sentence of 40 years.

Murder of a civilian gets a mandatory sentence of 25 years.

The reason for the difference is that murder of the former is viewed as an attack on the authority of the state.

A judge has no discretion to give a shorter sentence for murder.

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.

With regards to conviction of murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or on duty prison officer, this is a commutation.

Turtyturd · 14-10-2013 02:57PM

Gee Bag wrote: »

Conviction for the murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or a prisoner officer while they are on duty gets a mandatory sentence of 40 years.

Murder of a civilian gets a mandatory sentence of 25 years.

The reason for the difference is that murder of the former is viewed as an attack on the authority of the state.

A judge has no discretion to give a shorter sentence for murder.

Just out of curiosity do those who abuse their power while representing the state face minimum sentences which are harsher than the norm?

donvito99 · 14-10-2013 02:59PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Just out of curiosity do those who abuse their power while representing the state face minimum sentences which are harsher than the norm?

I don't think so, but from a civil law side they probably would.

FTA69 · 14-10-2013 02:59PM

c_man wrote: »

No Sinn Fein TD picking them up from prison?

They weren't Provisional IRA members.

NoCrackHaving · 14-10-2013 03:00PM

To be fair, they were given a sentence of 40 years and under the law were entitled to be released after 30. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but it is what it is.

As far as I'm aware Malcom MacArthur was the only person in recent Irish history to ever be given a 'whole life' tariff and he didn't even serve all that.

NoCrackHaving · 14-10-2013 03:01PM

joeguevara wrote: »

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.
.

Yes and no, as I wrote in my other post, in theory it's a mandatory life sentence but Malcom MacArthur is the only one who has been given it recently to the best of my knowledge and he was actually released last year.

kupus · 14-10-2013 03:03PM

donvito99 wrote: »

Life should mean life, think of the families of these Gardai, one of them lay wounded on the road, and was then shot again, dead.

Rehabilitative justice should not be reserved for these capital murderers. Make examples of them.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

joeguevara wrote: »

If convicted of murder,is it not a mandatory life sentence? As far as I am aware there is no tariff set on it. Average sentence served is 17 years.

With regards to conviction of murder of a Garda, member of the defence forces or on duty prison officer, this is a commutation.

pauliebdub wrote: »

Personally i think they should never be freed and should rot in a cell without any hope for the rest of their lives. Their victims didnt get any second chance did they?

anncoates wrote: »

With the same degree of difficulty that you can prove they are a threat i presume

Which is why im in favour of the death penalty for clear cut murder cases, and that goes for accomplices as well. second degree murder conspire to commit murder, bah its murder and should be charge as murder.

anncoates · 14-10-2013 03:04PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They murdered a couple of gardai, surely thats proof enough?

Actually I was under the impression that recidivism rates are relatively low for people that are convicted and serve long prison sentences for serious crimes.

That's just in relation to what we're discussing - the likelihood of actually killing again, as opposed to how wrong the crime was.

Amirani · 14-10-2013 03:04PM

donvito99 wrote: »

We can also be sure that incarcerating them for life would deny them a chance to pose a threat to society.

That's a dangerous road to go down. Have you seen the film Minority Report?

Garda killers freed from prison

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