Would You Shoot A Rutting Buck/Stag?

The Aussie · 11-10-2013 09:18PM

PL05 wrote: »

so if you shot a trophy stag what would you do with the carcass?

Can't answer that to be honest, it's been almost a decade since I went near anything I would class as a Trophy, if you liken Shooting/Hunting to the old Fishing adage of The 5 Stages of a Fishermans Life.

Stage 1: I just want to catch a fish!

Stage 2: I want to catch a lot of fish!

Stage 3: I want to catch big fish.

Stage 4: I’m just happy to be out fishing.

Stage 5: I want to pass on my knowledge and passion for fishing.

I would be between 4 & 5, if I was with someone who really wanted a Trophy it would all be extracted and utilised even if it had to be Quartered Out (Farmers don't like a rotting carcass in their Field) what would happen to it from there would depend on the condition, but would it not be shot before or during the Rut anyway so that's a mute point.

Grizzly 45 · 11-10-2013 10:28PM

TBH if our continental colleuges were to look at this they would be wondering why are doing this bass ackwards??In shooting pricketts,and leaving the mature or aging stags?? The mature lads have given their best to the gene pool for on average 3/4 seasons already,and as they age they will be pushed out of their dominant place by other younger competition.The pricketts haven't had a chance to "spread the love around.":pac: so their genes wont get into the herd before they are shot.

Fine if you want good eating,even then I'd wait to Nov for a nice calf or hind.But if you want a trophy then the rut is the time.After all it is when you will proably get the only chance of a possible multiple choice of mature stags.

On the point of shooting rutting stags,if it was the rut and you saw a stag with abnormal antler development.Would you take him down??Irrespective of the meat problem?? An abnormal antler development is usually a sign of a weak animal so if you are into improving your herd in the area...
Call your shot!:D

PL05 · 11-10-2013 10:40PM

just wondering, and question is,nt only directed at you. Just observing comments made Re: quality of meat from a rutting stag and trophy heads. in my opinion if anyone shoots a stag for the head they should really think before they sqeeze the trigger. [1] will i eat the meat from this animal or [2] will i bring it to game dealer. if anyone has an issue with either of these options they should leave the head where it is. As you said earlier, i would,nt begrudge anyone a trophy head either but i honestly think a stag should,nt be killed just for his head.

FISMA · 12-10-2013 04:26PM

Maybe some of ye here have a far more refined palate than myself. However, I have never found any evidence of tastes as being described here due to a rutting animal and such.

I have to wonder if this is something that when repeated enough and sounds logical, becomes defacto knowledge.

In general, I find that the taste of the animal depends mostly on what they themselves ate - you are what you eat and cooking/preparation methods.

In the States, the corn fed deer of the midwest often taste better than those that eat acorns, hemlock, and such.

I would be surprised if after I prepared venison, anyone could do a blind taste test and pick the rutting stag.

Additionally, I have had young ones that tasted far worse than older deer. In cases like this, putting the meat into salt water to draw out the blood, as you do with bunnies, helped.

Any Biologists on the forum? Would be nice to get some meat in to the lab for scientific analysis while at the same time doing a taste testing at home.

The Aussie · 12-10-2013 06:37PM

FISMA wrote: »

I have to wonder if this is something that when repeated enough and sounds logical, becomes defacto knowledge.

Science is far from defacto knowledge sorry, if you want to google why at abattoirs they don't slaughter animals infront of other animals is because of the stress induced in the live animals.

Here is a brief run down on stress and injury on meat, it mentions something else that has not been mentioned yet on this thread is the damage to meat by bruising while in combat

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6909e/x6909e04.htm

I can add links all day as to the build up of adrenalin, different acids and enzymes In meat before slaughter.

FISMA wrote: »

Maybe some of ye here have a far more refined palate than myself.

Well I don't want to sledge you to much as I like reading your posts, but.....

:pac:

sikahuntejack · 12-10-2013 09:35PM

FISMA wrote: »

Maybe some of ye here have a far more refined palate than myself. However, I have never found any evidence of tastes as being described here due to a rutting animal and such.

I have to wonder if this is something that when repeated enough and sounds logical, becomes defacto knowledge.

In general, I find that the taste of the animal depends mostly on what they themselves ate - you are what you eat and cooking/preparation methods.

In the States, the corn fed deer of the midwest often taste better than those that eat acorns, hemlock, and such.

I would be surprised if after I prepared venison, anyone could do a blind taste test and pick the rutting stag.

Additionally, I have had young ones that tasted far worse than older deer. In cases like this, putting the meat into salt water to draw out the blood, as you do with bunnies, helped.

Any Biologists on the forum? Would be nice to get some meat in to the lab for scientific analysis while at the same time doing a taste testing at home.

I agree with you 100% i will be roasting the rump off the shoulder of a big stag tommorrow, that was shot last sunday cant wait for me dinner tomorrow

cookimonster · 13-10-2013 01:11AM

A lot of study and research has gone into the condition of slaughtered meat. There is evidence that shows that animals that are stressed at the time of thier deaths yield meat that is tough. But this is relative to a degree of toughness. Age, condition, breed, gender all play a part. Remember todays commercialy slaughtered cattle are not hung for as long as previous generations practiced, so meat processors are constantly trying to improve the eating quality of meat even by the slightest degree.

It is true that rutting stags particularly at the height and onwards of the rut would lose conditioning and that thier adrenaline levels would be unnaturally high. But this high adrenaline level can be found in animals regardless of age or gender that are not 'dispatched cleanly and quickly' due to poor shot placement.

Cooks and Chefs have spent decades developing techniques and recipes to deal with all forms of food in order to make it palettable. So if you shoot it you should at least cook it and eat it. Two ways to deal with tough meat - low & slow or fierce & fast.

Now enough waffleing, I'm going to look up a few recipes for the 8 pointer hanging in my fridge.......Hmmmmm, ragout of stag, stag gumbo, stag stirfry, roast stag, braised stag, stag kebabs, stag burgers, stag saus...................:D

dev110 · 13-10-2013 03:00AM

This thread has given me quiet a bit to think about. It's interesting to see different peoples opinions though.

I'm not going to lie I would like a nice head for my first deer as I would do a skull mount and always have it as a reminder of my first deer.
There seems to be mixed opinions on the meat quality of a rutting buck/stag. From what I can see it comes down to how long it is hung and how it is prepared. I always take on cookimonster's advice when it comes to meat prep, etc so if he can manage to make something out of a rutting buck it must be possible to do something.
Grizzly made a point about an older buck that has been passing on his genes for a few years, is it a good idea to let another buck come up the ranks and take over? Or is this only possible if your the only one shooting that area and there is no poaching? Is it even possible to try and maintain a herd if there is so much poaching? Has it changed over the years to shoot what ever comes out in front of you?

The Aussie · 13-10-2013 07:31AM

cookimonster wrote: »

A lot of study and research has gone into the condition of slaughtered meat.

And Millions have been spent.

cookimonster wrote: »

Remember todays commercialy slaughtered cattle are not hung for as long as previous generations practiced.

My Butcher aims for about 35 days, below is a clip from the Lidl website, both are far far more than any bloke in his Garage will hang a Rutting Stag for in his Coke Fridge.

wrote:

All Hereford sired 'Deluxe' steaks are matured 14 days on the bone and further matured for a total of 28 days to ensure tenderness and flavour.

http://www.lidl.ie/cps/rde/xchg/SID-96ABFB58-25426E7F/lidl_ri_ie/hs.xsl/24206.htm

cookimonster wrote: »

But this high adrenaline level can be found in animals regardless of age or gender that are not 'dispatched cleanly and quickly' due to poor shot placement.

This is one of the reasons people go for Head Shots, also why people steer away from the .22 Cals (22-250 and Swift) so the death is quicker, with the Head Shots that is a personal choice, regarding the .22 Cals that's just being misinformed.....

cookimonster wrote: »

Cooks and Chefs have spent decades developing techniques and recipes to deal with all forms of food in order to make it palettable.

Likening us to a Chef is like comparing a Tradesman to a Home Handyman (unless you are a Chef who Hunts his own Meat of course) we can cook and get the job done but the end results are not as polished.

cookimonster wrote: »

Now enough waffleing, I'm going to look up a few recipes for the 8 pointer hanging in my fridge..

Stick up a photo of your set up for us, always interested to see peoples chilling and processing areas.

But facts are that a Pricket will taste better than a Stag, and a Stag before the Rut will be better to one during the Rut, and with the question being would you shoot a Rutting Stag, for me one of the reasons would not be the eating quality.
But as with a lot of Hunting that is down to personal restraints.

The Aussie · 13-10-2013 08:08AM

dev110 wrote: »

Has it changed over the years to shoot what ever comes out in front of you?

I'm afraid the answer is yes, there is a lack of tradition in Stalking, it's the same as in Salmon Angling, if you get it on the bank you give it a tap on the head is the prevailing mentality, even if it's starting to turn Red, if it had to be summed up in one word it is Greed.

cookimonster · 13-10-2013 09:46AM

Good posts Aussie, I enjoy the banter,

Today most meat is 'wet aged' that is to say vacuum packed. This will give the meat very long shelf life at standard chill temps, but produces a very different end result. Different flavour notes and colours as well as reducing overall wieght loss found in dry aged meats.
Long periods of traditional dry ageing is only suited to certain breeds or prime cuts and relies on the presence of outer fat and or bone (hence long loins are ideal).

Regarding 'chefs' believe me I have worked with and to my shame trained some who would pale in the presence of a home cook. The application of heat to food is not the great mystery that we in the trade would like you to think. Most peoples problems are that they don't know the basics, so like all other skills, driving, shooting etc its just a matter of getting the basics and then practice, practice and more practice.

In the past I used to butcher for friends, now I am into my third deer season as a hunter and enjoy processing my own quarry. My set up is simple and alternate between work and home depending on the kitchen work load. I use a standard commercial single door up right refrigeratorn (holds 2 animals) and a mincer with a cheep sausage nozzle attachment. When at home I bag and tag using a Lidal vacuum packer.

I tend to leave most of the animals I process in thier jackets for a week, then skin them, rechill for 24 hrs and then it takes me approximately two more days to dice, slice and bag it before freezing. This gives me joints, stewing, minced, burgers and sausages.

I agree with you on the greed issue, firstly I don't belive in the selling of game to processors as practiced here in Ireland (see the history of commercial game selling as practiced in previous century). The amount of game sold in Irish restaurants is quite small in comparison to other meats so I wonder where the meat is going.
I can feed my four adult family with approximately 30 meals with the average Sika spiker or hind that I tend to shoot, so four to five animals over the space of the season add enough meat to my freezer to do me.

The lads I shoot with have been doing this for a very long time and shoot with in the letter of the law. They have many far ranging permissions and manage them well by not over shooting them and knowing what is out there. They consistently get good returns from the same areas year after year. As it has been said here before if you put the dear under too much pressure no matter what's in season your going to see a drop off in numbers.

The Aussie · 13-10-2013 12:52PM

cookimonster wrote: »

Today most meat is 'wet aged' that is to say vacuum packed. This will give the meat very long shelf life at standard chill temps, but produces a very different end result. Different flavour notes and colours as well as reducing overall wieght loss found in dry aged meats.

Yes I tend to stay away from all Vacuum Packed meats, one of the reasons for staying away from the big Multi-Nationals and supporting your local Butcher is he can tell you how it's been aged and if he is any good, where and what it came from.

cookimonster wrote: »

Regarding 'chefs' believe me I have worked with and to my shame trained some who would pale in the presence of a home cook.

I don't know if its to your shame at all, in 20 years in the construction industry I've only had 3 apprentices last the distance, if they are not suited they normally get the short shift, so your far more tolerant than I I'm afraid

cookimonster wrote: »

In the past I used to butcher for friends, now I am into my third deer season as a hunter and enjoy processing my own quarry. My set up is simple and alternate between work and home depending on the kitchen work load. I use a standard commercial single door up right refrigerator (holds 2 animals) and a mincer with a cheep sausage nozzle attachment. When at home I bag and tag using a Lidal vacuum packer.

Stick up a picture of your set up, I'm always interested in how other people do it if you could, with your fridge would you fill it in one go, as in either 1 or 2 carcasses at the one time or 2 on different days?
If the latter do you notice a distinct rise in temperature?
I've always been of the opinion to get the Core Temp down while in transport with frozen milk (with water inside) bottles wrapped in big garbage bags to stop burning any meat and put them in the chest cavity, when shooting in 30+ degrees it used to be a must do or with a big drive! not so important on a frosty morning though

cookimonster wrote: »

I tend to leave most of the animals I process in thier jackets for a week, then skin them, rechill for 24 hrs and then it takes me approximately two more days to dice, slice and bag it before freezing. This gives me joints, stewing, minced, burgers and sausages.

Sounds like a good way of doing it, would you vary hanging time for the size of the animal?

cookimonster wrote: »

I agree with you on the greed issue, firstly I don't belive in the selling of game to processors as practiced here in Ireland (see the history of commercial game selling as practiced in previous century). The amount of game sold in Irish restaurants is quite small in comparison to other meats so I wonder where the meat is going
.

I think I read (on here?) the breakdown of Venison exported to the Continent was almost all that went through the Game Dealers Books, I've said it before and will say it again, if I ever use a Game Dealer I've lost all perspective of what Deer Stalking is about.

cookimonster wrote: »

The lads I shoot with have been doing this for a very long time and shoot with in the letter of the law. They have many far ranging permissions and manage them well by not over shooting them and knowing what is out there. They consistently get good returns from the same areas year after year. As it has been said here before if you put the dear under too much pressure no matter what's in season your going to see a drop off in numbers.

Sound like decent blokes who care about next years sport.
Who knows if people keep on harping on about Game Management it might sink in one day....

cookimonster wrote: »

Good posts Aussie, I enjoy the banter.

Like wise.

Just like a conversation at the pub..... I don't do Soccer Talk :pac:.....

Grizzly 45 · 13-10-2013 02:29PM

dev110 wrote: »

Grizzly made a point about an older buck that has been passing on his genes for a few years, is it a good idea to let another buck come up the ranks and take over? Or is this only possible if your the only one shooting that area and there is no poaching? Is it even possible to try and maintain a herd if there is so much poaching? Has it changed over the years to shoot what ever comes out in front of you?

TBH it is a problem that is west W European wide ,not just here.
All you can do is do your best and what your own" hunting ethics" tell you is right. If you have a let and are going to try and manage it properly and you are adjoined by two market hunters,all your work will be zero.You might have had a trophy stag all year on your let,and the one day you are out and see him while stalking and decide to let him alone for another while ,and you hear a shot a half hour later from your neighbours let......:(.But what can you do????
That's hunting..

Illegal market hunters which is what we have here,as I wouldn't degin to call these cretins who are doing this "poachers":mad:..You wouldnt know if a good poacher had hit your let,and no sane poacher is going to decimate a natural resource that will keep him supplied year in year out. Are a different story,this is pure unadultrated greed and money making.:mad: Its aided and abetted by an attitude of the "too many of them feckers anyway." from our farming community and NPWS...Anyone who says from a position of being in charge that "one deer in Ireland is one deer too many." Well...what can you expect from a pig but a grunt??
This situation is like blood diamond dealing. the peon who finds the diamonds gets a pittance for their efforts and the dealer rakes in a fortune.After speaking to one dealer,they would be happy if deer just consisted of sirlion and fillet.All the rest is" 2nd grade cuts " to them the two cuts are their money makers that are sold at huge markup for foriegn or domestic markets.:mad:

Only way to break this is simply we have to take the financial gain of out of the equation..If there is "easy money" in Ireland everyone will try to profit from it.But if there is no money in it the problem is 90% solved.

So either a moratorium on sales of wild deer to dealers for at least five years.
If there is such a a market for it,somone will start supplying farmed deer.
OR
The game handling course actually becomes mandatory,but allows you like your EU counterpart to actually sell from field to resturant.
This is the only reason the game handling cert would make any sense here.
It will also allow free market forces to work and we would then see what a resturant would be willing to pay for a carcass.

As The Aussie said..There are phases of hunting life too, where you get trophy fever,and must have a trophy for every season and place you have hunted.as we do ,we have a house full of antlers from my grandfathers lifetime of hunting.Everything from Austrian reds to a 15kg Hungarian monster red that was his 85 birthday present from us all to him.

At the moment,I'd rather have a good repersentative head of an Irish red on my wall. Doesnt have to be a gold class either.But I'm more intrested in having a good eater than a house full of bones.

sikahuntejack · 13-10-2013 07:47PM

Slow roasting a leg of deer, cook for 6 hours you will be able to carve the leg with a spoon even a rutting stags leg . I had braised beef on my menu today in work we used a cheap cut of meat which we call ball of round too tough to roast and if cut up and fryed would taste like leather .But when sliced and sealed on a hot pan and covered in a beef stock with red wine bay leaves onions garlic and thyme and placed in a moderate oven for 4 hours its will match fillet steak any day, there is plenty of ways to cook tough meat. corned beef is as tough as leather but when cooked right is a great dish same with lamb shanks its all about the cooking and preparation of the meat . IF i was make venison casserole i would only used the tough joints of meat includeing the neck this is where the flavour is.

Mauser 308 · 13-10-2013 09:56PM

All this talk is making me starving, rutting stag or not.....:rolleyes:

The Aussie · 13-10-2013 10:04PM

Mauser 308 wrote: »

All this talk is making me starving, rutting stag or not.....:rolleyes:

I've got a lovely Back Strap off a Young Spiker that all it needs is to be walked through a warm room before serving down here

Savoir.Faire · 13-10-2013 10:19PM

Would only ever shoot a rutting stag for a trophy. These days, that would have to be an extremely impressive specimen for me to do it.

I really dislike the taste of a rutting stag. I'm flabbergasted at some people saying they can't taste the difference! Its simply awful, and its a travesty that people who decide to 'try' venison in a restaurant are given it.

On more than one occasion I've converted people who claim they hate the taste of venison by cooking them some of my own quarry.

Mauser 308 · 13-10-2013 10:27PM

The Aussie wrote: »

I've got a lovely Back Strap off a Young Spiker that all it needs is to be walked through a warm room before serving down here

Brilliant. Just walked through a warm room, I love it.

Mauser 308 · 13-10-2013 10:40PM

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

Would only ever shoot a rutting stag for a trophy. These days, that would have to be an extremely impressive specimen for me to do it.

I really dislike the taste of a rutting stag. I'm flabbergasted at some people saying they can't taste the difference! Its simply awful, and its a travesty that people who decide to 'try' venison in a restaurant are given it.

On more than one occasion I've converted people who claim they hate the taste of venison by cooking them some of my own quarry.

I have converted a fair few people also, not sure how many ate rutting stags as such prior. But fairly sure the animal was killed and handled badly. Going by stories and listening to lads who supplied the meat, its my opinion there are far too many lads out there who do not know how to bleed and handle a deer correctly ie cleaning,chilling etc. etc. I heard horror stories from lads about washing the animals out in streams to wash the burst stomach contents off the meat :eek::eek:
Thought I do have something in my head about eating rutting stags, I dont know if its that I heard it so many times or just the strong small off the rutting stag, but I imagine I can smell it off the meat when cooking. Maybe all in my head.

One shot on kill · 13-10-2013 10:51PM

Don't know if its in your head I do hear they are smelly bastards al the same.

sikahuntejack · 13-10-2013 11:23PM

A rutting stag stinks no doubth about that skin the animal and the smell is gone, we eat pork pigs live in their own piss and ****, battery rared chickens live in filt can u taste the **** off their meat when u buy it no .My first job was in a abattoir and trust me the moment a cow comes out of the trailer it knows its going to be killed they smell it i seen cows being beaten and probed to get them up the ramp to be killed. For someone to say a rutting stag tastes awfull **** me my tastes buds must be up my arse 20 years as a professional chef had the rump off a rutting stag today for my lunch i have to say it was a million miles away from awfull:mad:

Mauser 308 · 13-10-2013 11:45PM

One shot on kill wrote: »

Don't know if its in your head I do hear they are smelly bastards al the same.

From my experience, the decent stags in full Rut truly stink.:eek:
They keep piss*** on themselves, and its a fierce strong smell.

I suppose it goes back to the OP question. Would you shoot a rutting stag?
After getting over the excitement of my first few decent stags/seasons, I honestly think I would leave them at it. I love the stalk, but am mainly in it to take home what I see as the best animal to eat. So I have passed decent stags in the hope of finding a pricked in the outlying area.
Everyone to there own I suppose.

FISMA · 14-10-2013 01:53AM

Goats smell pretty awful too, the ones I have seen smoked for a few hours with apple wood chips and charcoal, taste just fine.

There's another reason why you do not want to kill animals in front of each other - because some go crazy. I have seen bulls jump walls that I would have thought there was no way they could clear. They'll hurt themselves and others. Not good for business.

Fundamentally, the problem here is that we are trying to quantify taste. Something not easy to do.

Rutting and adrenaline is perfectly natural. Slaughterhouses, not so much so!

I have put a broadhead literally through a deer or two in my time in the States and they run, even with the best of shots. Have a look at a few of these shots using Lumenoks (warning - graphic shots). There are a few misses, but later on in the clip, there are several pass through's.

How much more stressed can you be than an broadhead through your boiler room? Plenty of time to release any/all chemicals.

Why is there no difference between arrow and rifle shot deer? I can tell the difference between corn feed deer and hemlock. Why not rifle or bow?

Maybe we should try feeding deer beer and massaging them like they do to cows in Japan! A little music to lighten the mood...:rolleyes:

I'll admit to having older stag that was not the best of meat. But that's true of some of the younger ones I have taken too. I just think that the evidence out there is anecdotal at best.

The Aussie · 14-10-2013 07:09AM

Mauser 308 wrote: »

I suppose it goes back to the OP question. Would you shoot a rutting stag?
After getting over the excitement of my first few decent stags/seasons, I honestly think I would leave them at it. I love the stalk, but am mainly in it to take home what I see as the best animal to eat. So I have passed decent stags in the hope of finding a pricked in the outlying area.
Everyone to there own I suppose.

Welcome to my World, I was watching a big red stag (bigger than any photos posted this season) through a Scope about a month ago, could not be bothered with him, watched him for a while and moved on.

This whole topic is akin to the Shot Placement debate, opinions are firmly set and only changed with time....

FISMA wrote: »

How much more stressed can you be than an broadhead through your boiler room? Plenty of time to release any/all chemicals.

I've put a 2 inch Mechanical Broadhead through a Stag and it just twitched, lifted its head then kept on eating, could see every time it's heart pumped, did not take one step, a fair few animals that got hit just got startled, did not know what had just happened and just ran 20-30m and stopped, with Bow Hunting a lot of the reaction of the Animal was down to the actions of the Hunter.

FISMA wrote: »

Why is there no difference between arrow and rifle shot deer? Why not rifle or Bow

Don't know.... Do all your Deer run?

:pac: ..... i will get my coat.

cookimonster · 15-10-2013 10:57AM

Damn stalking is getting in the way of a good conversation......
To answer some of your questions / comments

The Aussie wrote: »

............with your fridge would you fill it in one go, as in either 1 or 2 carcasses at the one time or 2 on different days?
If the latter do you notice a distinct rise in temperature...

With the 8 pointer and a spiker my fridge was over packed, I had to split the stag at the fore quarters, but it was checked on daily to ensure nothing was astray. Normaly I would have only one or two smaller animals as we tend to shoot for the pot and not a d*ck measuring contest. I would get out once a week or so and am not always lucky so I tend to have plenty of time between hanging and processing. If I had an skinned animal in the fridge I would not be too quick to put a fresh unskinned animal in with it. This is more so for hygiene rather than temp increase. If, and I have, I must do so i will either skin the new animal or wrap it in linen sheets to minimise cross contamination. Do not be to concerned about getting an animal into a refrigerator so quickly as it is a better practice to allow the natural body / core temp to drop prior to boxing up in a fridge. Most fridges are only cool boxs and not designed to cool food down but only to keep chilled food cold. Unless you are lucky enough to stalk in your back garden the time from grollach to fridge usually is enough to allow this to happen.
All fridges will experience a spike in temp when being loaded weather it be the weekly shopping or a nice sized spiker.

The Aussie wrote: »

I've always been of the opinion to get the Core Temp down while in transport with frozen milk (with water inside) bottles wrapped in big garbage bags to stop burning any meat and put them in the chest cavity

As above, I have read in many articles depicting US hunts about the common use of dry ic e or freezer blocks to chill and maintain cool temps in warmer states / seasons.

The Aussie wrote: »

Sounds like a good way of doing it, would you vary hanging time for the size of the animal

Age would dictate degrees of tenderness (altough as wild food there are many external factors that can play against this) I tend to hang minimum of a week and max 2 weeks. I am not overly fond of strong gamey meat. Just had a red wine stew with the shin meat of the 8 pointer, and found no marked difference in eating quality and cooking time. The flavour was stronger but in a good 'meaty' way.

The Aussie wrote: »

I think I read (on here?) the breakdown of Venison exported to the Continent was almost all that went through the Game Dealers Books

Talked to some lads in the meat supply trade and this seems to be the norm, with a lot going to England.

As to football, hmmm, a night in watching lads kicking a ball around or a chance of a stalk or some ducks.............. I'll stick with the tree lines and flooded fields.:)

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Would You Shoot A Rutting Buck/Stag?

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