Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

irishbucsfan · 11-10-2013 12:09PM

.ak wrote: »

Sky would get feck all of the cut then?

They're paying a lot less than BT. My guess will be it'll end up being England for BT and the Celtic nations for Sky.

jm08 · 11-10-2013 12:11PM

Sky will be needed anyway with their ability to broadcast in Italy and Aus, NZ & SA who are also interested in watching the competition.

BT & Canal+ can look after their own country markets.

The Sky over-hyping of the Celtic teams is going to be hard to listen to !

its_phil · 11-10-2013 12:27PM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

The Times had an article today, based on 'inside sources' talking about how, despite the public posturing, there are active negotiations going on behind the scenes, with regular phone calls between all parties, including RFU and PRL. The expectation of the Times is that agreement will be reached on money and qualifying. Broadcasting arrangement are the key sticking point, but the article implies that BT and Sky will work together. Which isn't great news for the fan, tbh, as 2 subscriptions will be needed, unless you are British BT broadband customer (which I am, thankfully)

Anything about ERC in it?

Grandpa Hassan · 11-10-2013 01:28PM

its_phil wrote: »

Anything about ERC in it?

the ERC is finished. Negotiations are for Heineken Cup mark 2.

Quotes from the Times (I assume this is allowed, as not a 'cut and paste')

"despite the posturing, progress is being made behind the scenes with numerous meetings and phone calls between all parties (unions, clubs, leagues, broadcasters) taking place"

"the feeling is that it will not take much to break the logjam with talk of an 8 - 10 year deal"

"agreement over revenue distribution not far off"

Which leaves governance and broadcasting

"It is though teh clubs accept that they cannot run their own competition and that unions have a significant role to play in giovernance. Clubs could hold the commerial reins"

"Broadcasting remains the unknown quantity"

Could all be complete conjecture, but it is positive that there are clearly active discussions underway, despite the public bluster

channelsurfer2 · 11-10-2013 01:40PM

Might be a quota system of packages like the premier league where first pick goes to one broadcaster one week and the other broadcaster another week. thats the one of the ways it might work, the other way is as has been said where english clubs at home are on BT but their away games would be on SKY. anyway thats all to be worked out if it happens.

iDave · 11-10-2013 01:42PM

Who gets to show the final?

.ak · 11-10-2013 03:08PM

iDave wrote: »

Who gets to show the final?

One half each!

rrpc · 11-10-2013 04:19PM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

the ERC is finished. Negotiations are for Heineken Cup mark 2.

Quotes from the Times (I assume this is allowed, as not a 'cut and paste')

"despite the posturing, progress is being made behind the scenes with numerous meetings and phone calls between all parties (unions, clubs, leagues, broadcasters) taking place"

"the feeling is that it will not take much to break the logjam with talk of an 8 - 10 year deal"

"agreement over revenue distribution not far off"

Which leaves governance and broadcasting

"It is thought the clubs accept that they cannot run their own competition and that unions have a significant role to play in governance. Clubs could hold the commercial reins"

"Broadcasting remains the unknown quantity"

Could all be complete conjecture, but it is positive that there are clearly active discussions underway, despite the public bluster

That doesn't look like the ERC are finished.

irishbucsfan · 11-10-2013 04:49PM

rrpc wrote: »

That doesn't look like the ERC are finished.

Why? Because the only structure in which the Unions could possibly be involved would be the ERC?

Grandpa Hassan · 11-10-2013 04:51PM

rrpc wrote: »

That doesn't look like the ERC are finished.

But surely ERC as an organisation and the governing body for the current heineken cup, are completely bypassed now, with unions sitting at the table independently, along with the clubs, in order to devise an entirely new governance structure. We are not looking at changes to, and a renewal of, the current competition. I dont think there is any doubt that this is the last Heineken Cup. We are looking at a completely new competition, whatever form that takes

Phonehead · 11-10-2013 04:52PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Why? Because the only structure in which the Unions could possibly be involved would be the ERC?

Suppose you can change the name but still have pretty much the same as before.

irishbucsfan · 11-10-2013 04:56PM

Phonehead wrote: »

Suppose you can change the name but still have pretty much the same as before.

Not if control is different.

Phonehead · 11-10-2013 04:58PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not if control is different.

But if the Unions control it they'll just appoint the same old boys with a wink and a nudge. It's how the World opperates

irishbucsfan · 11-10-2013 05:01PM

Phonehead wrote: »

But if the Unions control it they'll just appoint the same old boys with a wink and a nudge. It's how the World opperates

No, not what I meant. Not if the way control is distributed is different.

Grandpa Hassan · 11-10-2013 05:03PM

Phonehead wrote: »

Suppose you can change the name but still have pretty much the same as before.

There will simply be no pan European rugby next year without a change in the govenance structure and the distribution of control

Phonehead · 11-10-2013 05:05PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, not what I meant. Not if the way control is distributed is different.

Ah get you now, I suppose I'm just a cynic so I tend to think if the Unions are left to control it we will get the same again - which in a few years will lead to the same problems all over again.

irishbucsfan · 11-10-2013 05:28PM

I'm pretty confident though that we'll have pan-european competitions next season with 20 teams in each and meritocratic qualification from the three leagues. And they're the substantial changes that are going to be evident for viewers.

I think that's pretty much locked in. Where we'll be watching these matches may be up in the air, but I don't see it as being enough of a road block to put a complete stop on things. Whether we're drinking guinness or Heineken at the final is of course equally important.

Howard Juneau · 11-10-2013 09:12PM

Zebre not exactly helping their case for HC qualification status quo remaining

Grandpa Hassan · 11-10-2013 09:18PM

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Zebre not exactly helping their case for HC qualification status quo remaining

Indeed. I don't know what they, or the competition, gain from a night like this

irishbucsfan · 12-10-2013 04:14AM

Supposedly the Guinness rumour is bollocks, Midi-Olympique strike again.

icdg · 12-10-2013 11:32AM

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

Might be a quota system of packages like the premier league where first pick goes to one broadcaster one week and the other broadcaster another week. thats the one of the ways it might work, the other way is as has been said where english clubs at home are on BT but their away games would be on SKY. anyway thats all to be worked out if it happens.

The pick system would probably be the most likely outcome. Divying out by country leads to complications. Worth nothing that viewers have needed at least two subscriptions to watch the FA Premier League since 2004 - for a period in late 2009, you needed three in Ireland (until ESPN started being bundled into UPC subscriptions.)

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't see why the deal won't just be Sky get the rights to broadcast the competition in its entirety in Ireland while BT broadcast in mainland UK. Might even be NI for BT as well I guess.

Notwithstanding their previous experiment with Sky News Ireland, Sky do not currently have any channel that broadcasts solely to Ireland and not the UK. Although they could set up one, I'd argue this would be even worse news for Irish viewers as Sky have a track record of keeping their new in-house channels exclusive to Sky Digital - Sky Atlantic and Sky Sports F1 are both only available in Ireland on the Sky Digital platform.

irishbucsfan · 12-10-2013 11:41AM

icdg wrote: »

Notwithstanding their previous experiment with Sky News Ireland, Sky do not currently have any channel that broadcasts solely to Ireland and not the UK. Although they could set up one, I'd argue this would be even worse news for Irish viewers as Sky have a track record of keeping their new in-house channels exclusive to Sky Digital - Sky Atlantic and Sky Sports F1 are both only available in Ireland on the Sky Digital platform.

Why can't they block the individual programming at software level then? There's no need for a new channel. Rights have been divided like that before on Sky's services.

DDC1990 · 12-10-2013 01:24PM

Anyone listening to BBC Radio 5?

According to one of the English Commentators: "In my experience the 3 Irish provences are spending far above the English £4m salary cap"

He quoted a figure of £8m or £9m (each!!!) in terms of the Irish provinces spend on players!!!

Is he on crack?

He also claimed that the poor English teams couldn't compete financially with the French and Irish big boys and thats part of the reason the Irish and French teams kept winning!

EDIT: He was someone important at Sale may have been Chairman Steve Diamond

bilston · 12-10-2013 01:33PM

DDC1990 wrote: »

Anyone listening to BBC Radio 5?

According to one of the English Commentators: "In my experience the 3 Irish provences are spending far above the English £4m salary cap"

He quoted a figure of £8m or £9m (each!!!) in terms of the Irish provinces spend on players!!!

Is he on crack?

He also claimed that the poor English teams couldn't compete financially with the French and Irish big boys and thats part of the reason the Irish and French teams kept winning!

EDIT: He was someone important at Sale may have been Chairman Steve Diamond

Is Steve Diamond not a coach?

Anyway even if the provinces were spending that much which they cleary arent so what. The English have their salary cap and thats a matter for them, those rules dont apply to us but again there is no way we are spending £8m a year. Even taking Connacht out thats £24m a year for Munster, Leinster and Ulster!

Zzippy · 12-10-2013 01:57PM

DDC1990 wrote: »

Anyone listening to BBC Radio 5?

According to one of the English Commentators: "In my experience the 3 Irish provences are spending far above the English £4m salary cap"

He quoted a figure of £8m or £9m (each!!!) in terms of the Irish provinces spend on players!!!

Is he on crack?

He also claimed that the poor English teams couldn't compete financially with the French and Irish big boys and thats part of the reason the Irish and French teams kept winning!

EDIT: He was someone important at Sale may have been Chairman Steve Diamond

The 3 big provinces benefit significantly from not having their centrally contracted players on their own wage bill - if you added those in he might well have a point. Of course, we know the big English clubs aren't sticking to the wage cap either, so his point is moot...

irishbucsfan · 12-10-2013 02:02PM

Zzippy wrote: »

The 3 big provinces benefit significantly from not having their centrally contracted players on their own wage bill - if you added those in he might well have a point. Of course, we know the big English clubs aren't sticking to the wage cap either, so his point is moot...

Do we know that? You must have some evidence then?

its_phil · 12-10-2013 02:16PM

DDC1990 wrote: »

Anyone listening to BBC Radio 5?

According to one of the English Commentators: "In my experience the 3 Irish provences are spending far above the English £4m salary cap"

He quoted a figure of £8m or £9m (each!!!) in terms of the Irish provinces spend on players!!!

Is he on crack?

He also claimed that the poor English teams couldn't compete financially with the French and Irish big boys and thats part of the reason the Irish and French teams kept winning!

EDIT: He was someone important at Sale may have been Chairman Steve Diamond

Premiership chairmen talking rubbish?

Well I never...

bilston · 12-10-2013 02:17PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do we know that? You must have some evidence then?

Do all Premiership clubs have the same salary cap to operate within or does vary from club to club? To me it would be a nonsense if Leicester could only spend the same as Sale or Newcastle.

irishbucsfan · 12-10-2013 02:22PM

bilston wrote: »

Do all Premiership clubs have the same salary cap to operate within or does vary from club to club? To me it would be a nonsense if Leicester could only spend the same as Sale or Newcastle.

Yes they all spend the same amount. That's the point of the salary cap!

It's 4.3m I think plus 30,000 for each up to a certain number for players in their squad who have graduated from their academy. And then they get to have one player excluded from that salary cap.

its_phil · 12-10-2013 02:38PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do we know that? You must have some evidence then?

I heard it from someone I know with close Leicester sources that Leicester had very high suspicions that clubs were paying money to players spouses to make up the difference. That was said to me in the first year of the salary cap

No evidence, just what someone said.

Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

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