Who are our best 3 and worst 3 Taoiseach ever?

Mark Twain · 10-10-2013 11:03PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Oh look, an anti-Nationalist/Republican.

What a surprise.

:yawn:

A most beautiful feat of mental gymnastics. Applying the same level of debate; why did you call our former Taoisigh, "Teeshucks"?

What would you have expected of Bruton meeting a dignitary of our largest trading partner during a time where negotiations on the 'national issue' were at their most sensitive?

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 11:05PM

SimonLynch wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic but isn't the plural of Taoiseach Taoisigh or something such like? (D Leaving Cert Gaeilge 1983).

An Nazi gramadach. Knee higgum.

jjbrien · 10-10-2013 11:07PM

tayto lover wrote: »

"jjbrien has received a gratuity for his part in this Fine Gael advert".

lol i wish wheres my cheque or brown envelope stuffed with cash?

Theres good and bad points to most Taoiseach's each helped us get to where we are today however some should not have been let run a bus service never mind the country

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 11:09PM

jjbrien wrote: »

lol i wish wheres my cheque or brown envelope stuffed with cash?

Theres good and bad points to most Taoiseach's each helped us get to where we are today however some should not have been let run a bus service never mind the country

Yay!

SimonLynch · 10-10-2013 11:10PM

Turpentine wrote: »

An Nazi gramadach. Knee higgum.

An English one as well

RickyBobby1 · 10-10-2013 11:15PM

I really can't believe how many people have included Kenny as one of the best
He sickens me just to look at him and he's a slimey coward llike the rest of them today

Turpentine · 10-10-2013 11:23PM

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

I really can't believe how many people have included Kenny as one of the best
He sickens me just to look at him and he's a slimey coward llike the rest of them today

Politicians are all slimey. At least the ones that get into power. You don't get to the top of the game without being slimey. Anywhere. As has been, always will be. Human nature. You just have to pick who you think is the least slimey.

In my opinion.

I hope I haven't trounced any blasphemy laws here, although this isn't the politics forum, so I doubt many here have "politics" as a religion.

Nonoperational · 10-10-2013 11:25PM

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

I really can't believe how many people have included Kenny as one of the best
He sickens me just to look at him and he's a slimey coward llike the rest of them today

Just what exactly has Kenny done that's so wrong? It's easy to spout populist rubbish that makes no sense, but to be fair to the guy, 3 years ago pretty much every economist in the country said we were going to default and were completely shagged.
He made tough cuts, negotiated what will hopefully be one of a few debt deals with Europe, saw over a stabilisation in the economy and unemployment, cut public sector pay, maintained an awful lot of social welfare rates to a level that are amongst the most generous in the world, legislated for the X case, led his party to a very commanding position in the last general election which provided some kind of stability during the crisis, told the church to piss off...

Like I understand people don't like a Taoiseach that takes things from them, but with the extremely limited options he had available, and the complete mess he inherited, to say he's a useless slime-ball and one of the worst Taoisigh ever is very hard to justify.

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 11:30PM

Mark Twain wrote: »

A most beautiful feat of mental gymnastics.

I don't think you understand what 'mental gymnastics' means

why did you call our former Taoisigh, "Teeshucks"?

Oh excuse me - I thought we were in After Hours and not writing official documents.

What would you have expected of Bruton meeting a dignitary of our largest trading partner during a time where negotiations on the 'national issue' were at their most sensitive?

Great we're getting to the real issue here methinks. You're getting your (FG branded?) knickers in a twist over someone criticising JB's stomach churning fawning over a British Royal?

Well that's how I view it - sycophantic fawning and not appropriate of the leader of my country.

Get over it.

Karl Stein · 10-10-2013 11:33PM

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

I really can't believe how many people have included Kenny...

Fine-Gael-bots.

urabell · 10-10-2013 11:34PM

Good

Dev
Lemass
Ahern, does nobody remember the tiger?

TeddyTedson · 10-10-2013 11:42PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

TK Whitaker - still with us at nearly 100 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._K._Whitaker). Basically a founding father of some of the good bits of modern Ireland.

Yeah, apparently far ahead of his time.
Great that he's still alive at such an age.

SimonQuinlank · 10-10-2013 11:51PM

Worst:

Haughey
Bertie
Fitzgerald

Not entirely contemptable:

Lemass
Reynolds
Bruton

The Pheasant2 · 11-10-2013 12:03AM

Best:
Lemass
Fitzgerld
Devalera

Worst:
Haughey
Bertie
Cowen

Honourable mention to W.T Cosgrave for getting the country back on track after the civil war but he allowed too much from the church

Karl Stein · 11-10-2013 12:08AM

jjbrien wrote: »

Well he needed to be as how would you get Ian Paisley or the ulster unionists to agree on the good Friday agreement.

Do you really think those dinosaurs gave **** what JB was saying? Really?

The Uk is our biggest partner we need them and they need us so what Bruton did helped us a lot.

Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that trade wouldn't have happened in the absence of JB's gushing.

If FF had just kept doing what his government was doing and not went mad over property or handing out them special savings accounts we would not be in the mess we are today.

Sure thing. I clearly remember FG's offering of a turbo-charged version of what FF were dong at the time - it might have been worse had they gotten in.

Augmerson · 11-10-2013 12:15AM

Nonoperational wrote: »

Just what exactly has Kenny done that's so wrong? It's easy to spout populist rubbish that makes no sense, but to be fair to the guy, 3 years ago pretty much every economist in the country said we were going to default and were completely shagged.
He made tough cuts, negotiated what will hopefully be one of a few debt deals with Europe, saw over a stabilisation in the economy and unemployment, cut public sector pay, maintained an awful lot of social welfare rates to a level that are amongst the most generous in the world, legislated for the X case, led his party to a very commanding position in the last general election which provided some kind of stability during the crisis, told the church to piss off...

Like I understand people don't like a Taoiseach that takes things from them, but with the extremely limited options he had available, and the complete mess he inherited, to say he's a useless slime-ball and one of the worst Taoisigh ever is very hard to justify.

I don't think the economy stabilised, it just got to the point where it couldn't get much worse, and thankfully for Kenny and Co. thousands upon thousands of Irish people emigrated to Australia, Canada etc. we really have no good men when it comes to negotiating with Europe over debt, I've yet to be convinced Kenny will turn into a key statesman for us especially over those issues.

Skylinehead · 11-10-2013 12:17AM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Best:

Devalera

Honourable mention to W.T Cosgrave for getting the country back on track after the civil war but he allowed too much from the church

And Dev didn't? :pac:

The Pheasant2 · 11-10-2013 12:21AM

Skylinehead wrote: »

And Dev didn't? :pac:

Dev's was more lip service to the church whose support he needed in helping establish a unified republic. He was still a devout Catholic, but not on par with Cosgrave

Hannibal · 11-10-2013 12:35AM

Go back to 2005 or 2006 and nobody would be saying Ahern was one of the worst, people were happy in the good times in truth. What ruined this country was that capitalism collapsed and showed up the mess that was our banking sector which then crippled the country with what was hidden underneath and what the richect 5% were upto. Ahern made several mistakes and what exactly he knew or didn't know about how banks conducted their business remains to be seen. He also allowed McDowell and Harney into senior positions in cabinet which is unforgivable as Health and Justice are still two areas which are an utter shambles in part to those two

DeValera built a nation emerging from a colonial and brutal rule. Mistakes were made in being guided by religious faith and what occured in these states within a state.

Haughey was an outright gangster, you could compare him to John Gotti.

Kenny and John Brutal haven't got the leadership skills required to run a country and in time we will probably forgive Ahern and remember the good times, but Kenny's acceptance and implementation of austerity is something that we will burden on our shoulders for the next two decades at least. Kenny can't debate anything and regularly gets the house suspended due to his inability to answer direct question which he descends into an argument.

11-10-2013 01:03AM

Lemass was probably the best. Reynolds accomplished an awful lot during the short period he was Taoiseach for and was probably our best Taoiseach since Lemass. W.T Cosgrave did a lot of good too in fairness to the man.

Ahern was the worst, followed by Cowen. Garret Fitzgerald, despite being a well-mannered intellectual would have to go down as a pretty poor Taoiseach as well.

Foxhound38 · 11-10-2013 01:41AM

Best:

Lemass
Fitzgerald
Dev (don't agree with his policies as such, but in terms of vision for the country, overall impact etc)

Worst:

Cowen (probably not malicious, but so totally out of his depth in the job)
Haughey (Criminal and Thief)
Ahern (Criminal and Thief - and the man most responsible for the current woes of the country)

ButtersSuki · 11-10-2013 04:48AM

1. Bertie
2. Bertie
3. Bertie

Yes, he was that bad. I'm nominating him for each of his terms in office. So corrupt that by comparison, Haughey looks relative clean.

lei01 · 11-10-2013 04:53AM

just have a look!

Reality_Check1 · 11-10-2013 09:55AM

yeah I think its popular for people not to like Kenny even though he is doing a fantastic job in my opinion

Hesh's Umpire · 11-10-2013 09:59AM

Bruton was absolutely useless. Not a crook like some of the others. But pure useless.

kevmy85 · 11-10-2013 02:29PM

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Sure thing. I clearly remember FG's offering of a turbo-charged version of what FF were dong at the time - it might have been worse had they gotten in.

That may be true to a certain extent in 2007 but absolutely not in the 2002 election. Noonan offered some very good stable forward thinking economic policies and reform packages. The people completely rejected them. Looking back then was really the time to change tack after the dotcom bubble burst in 00/01. Bertie/FF/PDs in the first term had done alright and people wanted to give them another chance. Understandable but their policies from 01 on were terrible.

Augmerson wrote: »

I don't think the economy stabilised, it just got to the point where it couldn't get much worse, and thankfully for Kenny and Co. thousands upon thousands of Irish people emigrated to Australia, Canada etc. we really have no good men when it comes to negotiating with Europe over debt, I've yet to be convinced Kenny will turn into a key statesman for us especially over those issues.

I don't think being a statesman is important tbh thats just turning a face to the outside world. I'd much prefer a Taoiseach to limit their own ego and pick the best cabinet for the job and let them get on with it. Kenny has done well in staying above the fray and providing a kind of cheerleader, chairman and speech-maker role in the Dail. He may not come across as the brightest and he should interview more to the media but hey he's doing a damn sight better than the last guy.

Best:
Lemass
WT Cosgrave
Bruton

Worst:
Haughey
Cowen
Ahern

Honourable mentions to Dev, Fitzgerald and Reynolds

call_me_early · 11-10-2013 03:10PM

Hannibal wrote: »

Go back to 2005 or 2006 and nobody would be saying Ahern was one of the worst, people were happy in the good times in truth. What ruined this country was that capitalism collapsed and showed up the mess that was our banking sector which then crippled the country with what was hidden underneath and what the richect 5% were upto. Ahern made several mistakes and what exactly he knew or didn't know about how banks conducted their business remains to be seen. He also allowed McDowell and Harney into senior positions in cabinet which is unforgivable as Health and Justice are still two areas which are an utter shambles in part to those two

DeValera built a nation emerging from a colonial and brutal rule. Mistakes were made in being guided by religious faith and what occured in these states within a state.

Haughey was an outright gangster, you could compare him to John Gotti.

Kenny and John Brutal haven't got the leadership skills required to run a country and in time we will probably forgive Ahern and remember the good times, but Kenny's acceptance and implementation of austerity is something that we will burden on our shoulders for the next two decades at least. Kenny can't debate anything and regularly gets the house suspended due to his inability to answer direct question which he descends into an argument.

yeah , Kenny should have chosen to ditch austerity

austerity is a choice like :rolleyes:

ricecake100 · 21-06-2015 09:31PM

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

list to choose from:

WT Cosgrave
Éamon de Valera
John A. Costello
Seán Lemass
Jack Lynch
Liam Cosgrave
Charles Haughey
Garret FitzGerald
Albert Reynolds
John Bruton
Bertie Ahern
Brian Cowen
Enda Kenny

The best was Jack Lynch, Seán Lemass and Charlie Haughey.

The worst was Liam Cosgrave, John Bruton and Garret FitzGerald.

seamusk84 · 21-06-2015 09:33PM

Turpentine wrote: »

Bertie got to be our worst Taoiseach three times in a row. Does that count.

A lot done, more to do.

21-06-2015 09:35PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Best:
...
Fitzgerald
...
Worst:
...
Haughey (Criminal and Thief)

Haughey was a crook...but he and MacSharry did turn the country around in the late 80s after some crazy years.

Who are our best 3 and worst 3 Taoiseach ever?

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